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Habs built to win for the future?

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01-20-2013, 11:25 AM
  #1
Lafleurs Guy
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Habs built to win for the future?

Folks, this is not a rebuild thread... there are enough of those around already.

Just curious as to what people think about this team for now and the immediate future. Are we a playoff team this year? Do you see this team progressing with what we've got over the next couple of years? Negating the draft this year what do you think about our present and future?

Nevermind about what you think we should do to improve, this is strictly a thread about your thoughts on the team presently and what we currently have in the system.

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01-20-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Folks, this is not a rebuild thread... there are enough of those around already.

Just curious as to what people think about this team for now and the immediate future. Are we a playoff team this year? Do you see this team progressing with what we've got over the next couple of years? Negating the draft this year what do you think about our present and future?

Nevermind about what you think we should do to improve, this is strictly a thread about your thoughts on the team presently and what we currently have in the system.
They'll be much better and they'll get into the playoffs more consistently but future championships are by no means inevitable. (This is also true of other noncompetitive teams.)

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01-20-2013, 11:30 AM
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I think we are a bubble team, but I still don't think Therrien will guide the young players anywhere worth while in the near future.

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01-20-2013, 11:32 AM
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Andy
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Short-term: Defense isn't good enough to make this a playoff team. The forward group we have is "enough" to squeeze the team into a playoff spot IF the d-core was much stronger. Right now, very little chance.

Long-term: The centre position is fine IF Galchenyuk develops the way we expect him to. Plekanec-Galchenyuk-Eller is a strong center position (If Galchenyuk develops well).

On defense: long-term, I'm not worried at (assuming the team retains Subban). Ellis-Tinordi-Beaulieu will replace some of the spare-parts on D in Boullion and Kaberle. They will also give the D a good balance unlike the one the team has now, which is composed of too many similar parts. The team has also a pretty good junior pool of defense as well. Long-term, this isn't a position to worry about.

The Wings: IMO is the biggest problem. After Pacioretty the wings drop significantly. Bourque, Cole and Gionta are all older. Personally, I move DD to the wing if Galchenyuk develops. Perhaps a Collberg, Kristo, Gallagher, Bozon or Hudon surprise us? Maybe, there is a lot of 2nd line winger potential there, but very little first line potential.

The direction team is heading, it won't be one which relies on one superstar at the forward position to carry the load, but one which is a team effort...sort of the way Boston is with their forward group. It will be about solid depth, all players who can be trusted in all situations.

Lastly, The coach: The game has become so technical, coaching is as important as the players on the ice. I don't see anything good happening with Therrien on board long-term.

However, because the current state of the team depends on too many IFs with their prospect pool (IF Galchenyuk develops, If Beaulieu-Ellis-Tinordi develop), the team is currently in limbo. Hard to predict what will happen.

That's my opinion right now.


Last edited by Andy: 01-20-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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01-20-2013, 11:32 AM
  #5
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They suck now and will be mediocre in the future.

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01-20-2013, 11:35 AM
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All I know is that big skilled center we've needed for the last 10+ years, with elite qualities, is playing wing. I pray every night about this stuff

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01-20-2013, 11:36 AM
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They suck now and will be mediocre in the future.
But they'll be among the best of the mediocre teams.

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01-20-2013, 11:36 AM
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All I know is that big skilled center we've needed for the last 10+ years, with elite qualities, is playing wing. I pray every night this stuff
Seguin, Giroux, countless centers started their career on the wings. Galchenyuk isn't Crosby or Taveres, he's not ready to immediately thrive as a C.

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01-20-2013, 11:38 AM
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The last draft and the upcoming draft will go a long way in making this team a contender in 4 or 5 years. They already have a pretty good crop of prospects on defense and these 2 drafts will provide a solid group of forwards. Considering the fact that d-men usually take a year or 2 longer to develop, all those players should have an impact at pretty much the same time.

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All I know is that big skilled center we've needed for the last 10+ years, with elite qualities, is playing wing. I pray every night about this stuff
Comment like these make me laugh. Do you really think that Galchenyuk will forget how to play center if he starts his career on the wing? What a ridiculous way of thinking. Anyone that's ever played the game knows it's a fairly easy transition from one to the other. They start him on the wing to help him get use to the speed of the NHL game while not being so much of a risk as he would be playing center.

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01-20-2013, 11:47 AM
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[QUOTE=Et le But;57934863]Seguin, Giroux, countless centers started their career on the wings. Galchenyuk isn't Crosby or Taveres, he's not ready to immediately thrive as a C.[/QUOTE]


There seems to be some extra pain in watching it "hopefully" happen with him as a Habs fan. For me anyways.

Could we try him at center first?

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01-20-2013, 11:52 AM
  #11
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Not a playoff team and far from a contender.

They need to make winning the #1 priority, not ensuring sellouts.

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01-20-2013, 11:55 AM
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Too many questions now to know for sure. I think we'll have a much better idea of the answer to this at the end of the season. Plus with at least 4 picks in the top-60 this year I think our prospect pool will be one of the best in the league.

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01-20-2013, 12:01 PM
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Not a playoff team and far from a contender.

They need to make winning the #1 priority, not ensuring sellouts.
You wouldn't be so idealistic if YOU had invested hundreds of millions in a BUSINESS!

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01-20-2013, 12:05 PM
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If you accept that, fine.

I didn't know the Molsons needed this business to survive.

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01-20-2013, 12:06 PM
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With Price, Subban and Pacioretty entering their primes, the team should be OK for a while. Whether they will be a contender will depend on prospect development, management and luck.

If Galchenyuk becomes the player many think he will be, that's huge. If Gallagher takes another step forward and Hudon avoids injury, that's another couple of nice pieces. If Beaulieu can round out his game and find some consistency, that would also be big - otherwise, the team may need to add another top 3 dman.

Bergevin has sent mixed signals about when he thinks the team's window of opportunity will arrive. IMO the Prust signing was about filling a perceived need right now, possibly at the expense of the future. I'm not sure that Bergevin is thinking so much in terms of windows of contention, as much as plugging team needs as he sees them.

One advantage the Habs have over much of the league is money. Another is the fact that players generally seem to want to stay in Montreal once they are here. So, as long as Timmins is drafting and we don't trade away the next McDonagh, I think the team has a good chance of retaining enough core talent to eventually be very good, even if management is questionable.

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01-20-2013, 12:23 PM
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Only answer is to tank the season and pray that we get a 1st round draft pick

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01-20-2013, 12:23 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
With Price, Subban and Pacioretty entering their primes, the team should be OK for a while. Whether they will be a contender will depend on prospect development, management and luck.

If Galchenyuk becomes the player many think he will be, that's huge. If Gallagher takes another step forward and Hudon avoids injury, that's another couple of nice pieces. If Beaulieu can round out his game and find some consistency, that would also be big - otherwise, the team may need to add another top 3 dman.

Bergevin has sent mixed signals about when he thinks the team's window of opportunity will arrive. IMO the Prust signing was about filling a perceived need right now, possibly at the expense of the future. I'm not sure that Bergevin is thinking so much in terms of windows of contention, as much as plugging team needs as he sees them.

One advantage the Habs have over much of the league is money. Another is the fact that players generally seem to want to stay in Montreal once they are here. So, as long as Timmins is drafting and we don't trade away the next McDonagh, I think the team has a good chance of retaining enough core talent to eventually be very good, even if management is questionable.
There's a lot of 'ifs' there though. I think we can count on Price and Subban and to a lesser extent Max being worth building around. Galchenyuk also looks like a winner.

The question is though... is that enough? I like the D coming up but our forward pool looks pretty weak. After Galchenyuk it doesn't look all that exciting right now.

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01-20-2013, 12:24 PM
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Habs are set to suck now and in the future unless Marc Bergevin has big hairy balls and is ready to do a REAL rebuild.

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01-20-2013, 12:27 PM
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Comment like these make me laugh. Do you really think that Galchenyuk will forget how to play center if he starts his career on the wing? What a ridiculous way of thinking. Anyone that's ever played the game knows it's a fairly easy transition from one to the other. They start him on the wing to help him get use to the speed of the NHL game while not being so much of a risk as he would be playing center.[/QUOTE]

No, but while you are trying to make him into an NHL winger he will bring his junior skill set to the center role once he is ready.

I have been a Habs fan for a long time and nothing strikes more stark raving terror in me than player development. Really

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01-20-2013, 12:28 PM
  #20
Andy
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
There's a lot of 'ifs' there though. I think we can count on Price and Subban and to a lesser extent Max being worth building around. Galchenyuk also looks like a winner.

The question is though... is that enough? I like the D coming up but our forward pool looks pretty weak. After Galchenyuk it doesn't look all that exciting right now.
Which is why I said the team is limbo right now. The Habs are in "wait and see" mode. I don't mind if they make a couple of moves to strengthen the forward group, but I think the D needs to be left alone for this season (unless it's moving Kaberle for cap space in general). I don't want any guys coming in preventing upward mobility for Ellis, Tinordi or Beaulieu.

Hard to tell right now, which is why I think it's way too early for panic mode or thinking the future is bright.

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01-20-2013, 12:31 PM
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Habs are set to suck now and in the future unless Marc Bergevin has big hairy balls and is ready to do a REAL rebuild.
I'm somewhat pessimistic about this year (VERY pessimistic if there are no plans to improve our D/Subban isn't signed soon) but I am not of the opinion we need a complete rebuild in the mould of Edmonton. Price, PK, Pacioretty, Eller, Galchenyuk are great pieces that are already in place, we can try to win with what we have now while adding, no need to go full tank.

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01-20-2013, 12:33 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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I'm somewhat pessimistic about this year (VERY pessimistic if there are no plans to improve our D/Subban isn't signed soon) but I am not of the opinion we need a complete rebuild in the mould of Edmonton. Price, PK, Pacioretty, Eller, Galchenyuk are great pieces that are already in place, we can try to win with what we have now while adding, no need to go full tank.
Let's try to stay away from the 'tank' talk. There are tons of other threads for that.

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01-20-2013, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by CHamps View Post
I'm somewhat pessimistic about this year (VERY pessimistic if there are no plans to improve our D/Subban isn't signed soon) but I am not of the opinion we need a complete rebuild in the mould of Edmonton. Price, PK, Pacioretty, Eller, Galchenyuk are great pieces that are already in place, we can try to win with what we have now while adding, no need to go full tank.
I agree, those players are great pieces but I just hope that when it will be obvious that we will miss the playoffs, that Bergevin will be in full sell mode and he will be ready to trade aging veterans like Cole for a good young player/picks.

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01-20-2013, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
There's a lot of 'ifs' there though. I think we can count on Price and Subban and to a lesser extent Max being worth building around. Galchenyuk also looks like a winner.

The question is though... is that enough? I like the D coming up but our forward pool looks pretty weak. After Galchenyuk it doesn't look all that exciting right now.
You're right, that is a lot of "ifs". I guess my confidence comes from the idea that Timmins will keep cranking out a whole bunch of "ifs" (I mean that in a good way), more than most head scouts, some of them will become core players, and the Habs will have the ability to retain that core, barring another huge mistake.

I actually have the opposite view of the upcoming classes of F and D - I'm more confident in the forwards. I'll be pleasantly surprised if any of our prospects become top 3 defencemen. Among the forwards, I think Gallagher has a good chance of becoming a positive tough minutes player. Hudon is very exciting if he can stay out of the trainer's office.

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01-20-2013, 12:41 PM
  #25
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Average team with average team potential for the next few years - 2nd tier material like we were for most of the past 20 years.

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