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P.K Subban Thread 4.0 - Still Unsigned Edition

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01-20-2013, 12:10 PM
  #226
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I don't want to get into an argument about the above. I just wanted to make the point that Subban is villified and he doesn't seem to have done anything wrong. Imagine if he had done what Price has...
Bro, there are players who have been in assault and **** cases and it's never brought up. But Subban is vilified for having a poor attitude...yet there's no proof. The guy's a hard worker and shows up in big games.

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01-20-2013, 12:10 PM
  #227
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How do you miss a game... What a joke , losing my respect for pk

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01-20-2013, 12:19 PM
  #228
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Didn't they sign a two year deal before this? I must be confused PK is being cheated if he doesn't have to follow the same.
There was nothing comparable about Patches/price at the end of their ELC aside from their age. The policy is stupid.

No policy that advocates signing 4th line UFA's for multi year contracts and playing hardball with your elite talent is a policy worth enforcing.

I don't care about the UFA vs RFA arguments that everyone uses as a defense for this grossly absurd view.

The best course of action, if you're going to overpay is to over pay for players that are really, really good. UFA/RFA be damned.

I don't think 5-6million is overpaying for pk btw. I think he is worthy of being the habs highest paid player and I believe it will become more painfully obvious as years go by. I'm not saying that MB is wrong for trying to get the best deal, but if the difference is 500k-1m. Lets get it done and get this thing over with. PK Subban has already proven he's a really, really good dman, it's completely illogical to expect any kind of regression at 23 years old.

Pay da man his Money.

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01-20-2013, 12:25 PM
  #229
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I love the fact the guys dumping more on PK always bring up bridge contracts that MaxPAc and Price signed, despite having been explained about 100000000x that the situations were notably different. They purposely ignore those facts.

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01-20-2013, 12:26 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by 99GoHabsGo99 View Post
How do you miss a game... What a joke , losing my respect for pk
You: "Mr Subban, here's your double grande sugar free macchiato...and by the way, I've lost all respect for you, for negotiating fair value for your services."

Subban:

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Old
01-20-2013, 12:26 PM
  #231
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But what's the point of that? There's no guarantee that we will ever get a talent as good as PK with all those picks combined. You trade aging vets at the deadline as rentals for picks.
You don't trade 23yo for picks, especially not one with the potential to be one of the better Dman of this league. It's like going backwards.
At least that #1 might not become a holdout. Besides, you wouldn't get Columbus's #1 pick in 2013 for aging veterans. The Rangers traded a parcel of talented young players for Rick Nash ( a 28-year-old former Columbus #1 who had leverage because he wasn't going to remain a Blue Jacket). Another thing: How do you know PK wouldn't split once he became eligible as a UFA? He'd still have Meehan as his agent.

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01-20-2013, 12:30 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
At least that #1 might not become a holdout. Besides, you wouldn't get Columbus's #1 pick in 2013 for aging veterans. The Rangers traded a parcel of talented young players for Rick Nash ( a 28-year-old former Columbus #1 who had leverage because he wasn't going to remain a Blue Jacket). Another thing: How do you know PK wouldn't split once he became eligible as a UFA? He'd still have Meehan as his agent.
#1 might be a holdout if he's the best at his position on the team through his ELC and management peddles him a bridge contract.

This is up there with Gainey not negotiating during the season. Every situation is different.

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01-20-2013, 12:30 PM
  #233
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It's going way too far right now. They don't talk to each other. Each side is actually waiting that the other one moves. That's not good faith. In the end, what could happen, is that if Bergevin never moves, PK will accept his 2-year contract. And might actually ask for another 2-year once all is said and done to be UFA.

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01-20-2013, 12:32 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
At least that #1 might not become a holdout. Besides, you wouldn't get Columbus's #1 pick in 2013 for aging veterans. The Rangers traded a parcel of talented young players for Rick Nash ( a 28-year-old former Columbus #1 who had leverage because he wasn't going to remain a Blue Jacket). Another thing: How do you know PK wouldn't split once he became eligible as a UFA? He'd still have Meehan as his agent.
Like I just said, at this point, the Habs have to take that into consideration. While everything changes fast, if there's a problem already, imagine when it will REALLY be time to cash in.

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01-20-2013, 12:34 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by cphabs View Post
Didn't they sign a two year deal before this? I must be confused PK is being cheated if he doesn't have to follow the same.
Please follow the conversation. I was replying to someone who said big deals create pressure from fans on the players.

As for what you just said, not going to get into that again if you can't be bothered to read this thread or understand what's been said a million times already.

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01-20-2013, 12:34 PM
  #236
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It's going way too far right now. They don't talk to each other. Each side is actually waiting that the other one moves. That's not good faith. In the end, what could happen, is that if Bergevin never moves, PK will accept his 2-year contract. And might actually ask for another 2-year once all is said and done to be UFA.
Yup, not a good stategy for dealing with one of your best young players. Not sure how much of this is Meehan but if those numbers on the stove were right, we're out to lunch with what we're offering PK.

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01-20-2013, 12:36 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
It's going way too far right now. They don't talk to each other. Each side is actually waiting that the other one moves. That's not good faith. In the end, what could happen, is that if Bergevin never moves, PK will accept his 2-year contract. And might actually ask for another 2-year once all is said and done to be UFA.
The reason MB position makes no sense, is that he'll end up undoubtedly paying more for those years in two years than if he were to just give them now.

The habs are not in a pickle at all financially. With Gomez off the books next year and the 2nd amnesty buyout. PK's demands are a non issue. After that, there are plenty of expiring contracts that could be moved or even re-signed depending on the young cores development and the evaluation of the teams progress.

I'd rather give a little extra to pk now than to free up space to make another UFA signing that is unlikely to improve the team significantly enough to go from poor to contender, we need no money next year for UFA's. We shouldn't even being entertaining that market as of now.

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01-20-2013, 12:36 PM
  #238
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Waiting out Subban amounts to virtual tanking. The Habs will get more ping pong balls.

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Old
01-20-2013, 12:37 PM
  #239
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Yup, not a good stategy for dealing with one of your best young players. Not sure how much of this is Meehan but if those numbers on the stove were right, we're out to lunch with what we're offering PK.
If Kevin Weekes was right or even close to being right, Bergevin is insane.

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Old
01-20-2013, 12:48 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
It's going way too far right now. They don't talk to each other. Each side is actually waiting that the other one moves. That's not good faith. In the end, what could happen, is that if Bergevin never moves, PK will accept his 2-year contract. And might actually ask for another 2-year once all is said and done to be UFA.
If I was Bergevin, I would definitely not move. I mean, they've had months and months to determine what they think Subban's value is. If I think he's worth a $2.5M bridge deal, for whatever reason, then that's the deal I'm offering. And there's no amount of PK not playing or the Habs losing games that can ever change that. About the only thing that could ever change it is an RFA offer sheet. Meehan can negotiate all day, Subban can sit all season, and my position is my position. That's my strength as the General Manager on display.

That said, of course I personally think Subban is worth waaaay more than Bergevin apparently does.

I don't see anything to be gained by waiting from the players' pov. PK should reset to a 1-year deal, get on the ice, and file for arbitration in the summer. It's still going to be money and a chance to get a more fair hearing of his value.

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01-20-2013, 12:56 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
If I was Bergevin, I would definitely not move. I mean, they've had months and months to determine what they think Subban's value is. If I think he's worth a $2.5M bridge deal, for whatever reason, then that's the deal I'm offering. And there's no amount of PK not playing or the Habs losing games that can ever change that. About the only thing that could ever change it is an RFA offer sheet. Meehan can negotiate all day, Subban can sit all season, and my position is my position. That's my strength as the General Manager on display.

That said, of course I personally think Subban is worth waaaay more than Bergevin apparently does.

I don't see anything to be gained by waiting from the players' pov. PK should reset to a 1-year deal, get on the ice, and file for arbitration in the summer. It's still going to be money and a chance to get a more fair hearing of his value.
Well what could happen from the player's perspective and CLEARLY not ours, is that PK accepts a RFA offer sheet or ask for a trade. Which will totally put the team to a disadvantage big time WAY MORE than Bergevin going with another deal that his 2-year deal.

I mean didn't we just have a lockout? To me, Bergevin acts like the NHL. Neither believed that the other side would go as far as they're doing. NHL thought NHLPA would crumble. And Bergevin thought Subban would sign right away. Neither is happening. One thing is sure, even if PK just accepts what's going on, he will have a sour taste in his mouth and it won't be easy for us in the future. What Bergevin's structure will do is that while the players will know that Mr. Hardball will always offer you a contract bridge and you will have to accept it, he will also see that the other teams's aren't working like that so our players will be more eager to go the UFA route to gain the money that they just lost with Bergevin's new "system".

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01-20-2013, 01:02 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
If I was Bergevin, I would definitely not move. I mean, they've had months and months to determine what they think Subban's value is. If I think he's worth a $2.5M bridge deal, for whatever reason, then that's the deal I'm offering. And there's no amount of PK not playing or the Habs losing games that can ever change that. About the only thing that could ever change it is an RFA offer sheet. Meehan can negotiate all day, Subban can sit all season, and my position is my position. That's my strength as the General Manager on display.

That said, of course I personally think Subban is worth waaaay more than Bergevin apparently does.

I don't see anything to be gained by waiting from the players' pov. PK should reset to a 1-year deal, get on the ice, and file for arbitration in the summer. It's still going to be money and a chance to get a more fair hearing of his value.
I guarantee that he would get a lot of dough in arbitration right now.

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01-20-2013, 01:05 PM
  #243
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If I'm a player, I calculate what Bergevin gives me because of his stupid bridge rule, and when it's time to negotiate the next contract, he'll have to add what I lost during that period. You then have to add a few more dollars because of the pressure and the taxes and you are up for a major overpayment. I have no idea how Bergevin calculate his thing.

I guess that's what happens when you keep a Boivin in the financial aspect of the team.

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01-20-2013, 01:08 PM
  #244
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Since NHL games have now started I'm just gonna watch the games and forget all about PK Subban and his contract situation.

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01-20-2013, 01:10 PM
  #245
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Since NHL games have now started I'm just gonna watch the games and forget all about PK Subban and his contract situation.
Really fun to watch other games for sure. As habs fan, you have no choice but to develop this "Let's watch other teams and have fun" syndrome. Maybe if people would do it more, they'd be able to laugh everytime they read about how the Habs game is speed.

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01-20-2013, 01:11 PM
  #246
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I guarantee that he would get a lot of dough in arbitration right now.
I seriously doubt it, he'd get 2 to 2.5 mil tops. He hasn't proven anything yet. Last year he sucked for half the season before he got off his sophomore jinx. He should just take the offer whatever that may be and go for the big money next time.

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01-20-2013, 01:14 PM
  #247
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I seriously doubt it, he'd get 2 to 2.5 mil tops. He hasn't proven anything yet. Last year he sucked for half the season before he got off his sophomore jinx. He should just take the offer whatever that may be and go for the big money next time.
Preposterous !

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01-20-2013, 01:46 PM
  #248
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At least that #1 might not become a holdout. Besides, you wouldn't get Columbus's #1 pick in 2013 for aging veterans. The Rangers traded a parcel of talented young players for Rick Nash ( a 28-year-old former Columbus #1 who had leverage because he wasn't going to remain a Blue Jacket). Another thing: How do you know PK wouldn't split once he became eligible as a UFA? He'd still have Meehan as his agent.
Sure, he might not become a holdout. He might very well become one too, and then we're right back where we are today.
Also, speaking of the Nash trade, NYR game Dubinsky, Anisimov and a prospect, none of them are better than PK.

As for the UFA status, I don't know that. But I know that there's a bigger chance he opts for the open market if you are so stubborn that you would make him sit out simply because you want to build a reputation. Why would PK want to play for someone that can't give him fair value?
Also, you don't know whether he'll want to stay or leave, the same way you don't know if DD, Eller, Gally, etc, will test the market or not.

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I seriously doubt it, he'd get 2 to 2.5 mil tops. He hasn't proven anything yet. Last year he sucked for half the season before he got off his sophomore jinx. He should just take the offer whatever that may be and go for the big money next time.
You are proving how your player evaluation is non-existent.

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Old
01-20-2013, 01:49 PM
  #249
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If I was Bergevin, I would definitely not move. I mean, they've had months and months to determine what they think Subban's value is. If I think he's worth a $2.5M bridge deal, for whatever reason, then that's the deal I'm offering. And there's no amount of PK not playing or the Habs losing games that can ever change that. About the only thing that could ever change it is an RFA offer sheet. Meehan can negotiate all day, Subban can sit all season, and my position is my position. That's my strength as the General Manager on display.

That said, of course I personally think Subban is worth waaaay more than Bergevin apparently does.

I don't see anything to be gained by waiting from the players' pov. PK should reset to a 1-year deal, get on the ice, and file for arbitration in the summer. It's still going to be money and a chance to get a more fair hearing of his value.
I agree with this, the both of them have boxed themselves into this situation without any help from the other side or anybody else. Unless the two sides can bridge their differences amicably it almost seems destined to end up in a trading situation whether right away or a year or two down the road.

I don't like those 1 year deals, it's just kicking the can down the road. If there was a full season to negotiate a long-term deal and good faith on both sides I might go for it but for now, no.

Subban decision to hire Meehan got the ball rolling and if he wants to stay in Montreal he should rethink that idea.

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01-20-2013, 01:56 PM
  #250
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Players that held out like Yashin were villified, but PK has the right to because he's worth it, right? It's the Habs that are stupid and stubborn, right?

Right.
Not.

Edit: in case sarcasm detector is off...

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