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Game 1 | Detroit Red Wings @ St. Louis Blues | 8:00 PM EST | FSD (HD)

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01-20-2013, 10:09 AM
  #851
TheMoreYouKnow
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Originally Posted by Schroedingers Cat View Post
I've said it before, I'll say it again; the purse strings have been tightened for now until Mr. I gets a world series. That's why we keep trying out 900k undrafted Euros and picking over other teams garbage. That's the only explanation for the mind-boggling state of this roster.
The idea of an internal cap seemed far-fetched not too long ago but the last 1-2 years it's something the facts bear out. We don't know the exact financial situation of the Ilitchs and that salary bill for the Tigers is pretty hefty.

I think the Wings are in a very vulnerable position here, there's already been a lot of apathy with regards to the Wings in the last couple of years. If the Wings miss the playoffs and it becomes obvious that the team isn't competing, attendance could drop off perilously. And with much reduced revenue it isn't likely the team would spend more.

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01-20-2013, 10:13 AM
  #852
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
A lot can happen. Ovechkin or Kovalchuk could call. Who knows?
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Nah, ain't happening.
Unlikely as it may be I think that would be cool. Probably bad for my team, but getting a chance to see more of his games in the East would be awesome. Either one of those two on the point of a Datsyuk led power play would be a sight to see.

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Old
01-20-2013, 10:18 AM
  #853
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You must not know Mursak got hurt and didn't play much time on the Wings. I hardly count 25 games over a year ago "time" to gel.
When Mursak plays in the NHL, Mursak gets hurt....and that hasn't changed. He won't be around much longer, he can't take the physical game at this level....especially on this team.

St Louis imposed their will from the outset and Detroit had no answers. The Captain got sat on his arse, and there was no reply. Kinda sad, this team is going to be physically dominated on most nights. Nyquist or Tatar are not going to change that either. They would just be getting in line for the abuse.

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Old
01-20-2013, 10:20 AM
  #854
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
The idea of an internal cap seemed far-fetched not too long ago but the last 1-2 years it's something the facts bear out. We don't know the exact financial situation of the Ilitchs and that salary bill for the Tigers is pretty hefty.

I think the Wings are in a very vulnerable position here, there's already been a lot of apathy with regards to the Wings in the last couple of years. If the Wings miss the playoffs and it becomes obvious that the team isn't competing, attendance could drop off perilously. And with much reduced revenue it isn't likely the team would spend more.
What is this story about the Wings owing the city like 70 million bucks?

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01-20-2013, 10:30 AM
  #855
ScottyBowman
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
The idea of an internal cap seemed far-fetched not too long ago but the last 1-2 years it's something the facts bear out. We don't know the exact financial situation of the Ilitchs and that salary bill for the Tigers is pretty hefty.

I think the Wings are in a very vulnerable position here, there's already been a lot of apathy with regards to the Wings in the last couple of years. If the Wings miss the playoffs and it becomes obvious that the team isn't competing, attendance could drop off perilously. And with much reduced revenue it isn't likely the team would spend more.
I agree that if this team just tanks this year, you could see attendance drop down to 12k a game and even less. This whole policy of sitting on your hands and signing 3rd and 4th line players is starting to wear on the fan base.

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Old
01-20-2013, 10:33 AM
  #856
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
The idea of an internal cap seemed far-fetched not too long ago but the last 1-2 years it's something the facts bear out. We don't know the exact financial situation of the Ilitchs and that salary bill for the Tigers is pretty hefty.

I think the Wings are in a very vulnerable position here, there's already been a lot of apathy with regards to the Wings in the last couple of years. If the Wings miss the playoffs and it becomes obvious that the team isn't competing, attendance could drop off perilously. And with much reduced revenue it isn't likely the team would spend more.
Why were they flying with a private Jet to Suter's home trying to get him signed? Doesn't look like they are short of money and saving it for baseball.

It's more of preparation for the cap coming down. There was a speculation it would have happen for this season, but now there's a one year delay.

Until 2011 we were against the cap spending as much we could. Rafalski retired one year earlier than planned and that opened the payroll for season 2011-12. Cheaper White was the replacement. Same happened now with Lidström+Stuart.

And there was no same class replacements available for them expect Suter. They tried him. Didn't get him. Ericsson was planned for Stuart role, and than opens a spot for prospect Smith. Nothing wrong in these plans.

***

What comes to the team right now, our system and stability is just hurt because of the many changes on the roster and no training camp and practise games. There's nothing left at last season. Every line, defensive pairing, PP unit and SH unit is new. It takes time to get rolling. Next 10 games could kill our season, when new guys are adjusting to new roles, but I'm sure we will have better efforts after that. Teams with less changes are rolling right now.


Last edited by Henkka: 01-20-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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Old
01-20-2013, 10:43 AM
  #857
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Time for Gus to get full time action. We need more speed, and in a hurry. I'd love to see Gus in for Cleary and Tatar to slide into Emmertons spot (minus playing center of course).

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Old
01-20-2013, 10:52 AM
  #858
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People hoping Nyquist and Tatar are going to help this team are blind. Against a team like St. Louis we need size not skill. Those two will be awful as well.

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Old
01-20-2013, 11:18 AM
  #859
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Originally Posted by sully61 View Post
People hoping Nyquist and Tatar are going to help this team are blind. Against a team like St. Louis we need size not skill. Those two will be awful as well.
Not to mention that a 6-0 stomping would scare the crap outta them. As much as I dislike having them on the roster, guys like Cleary and Sammy will be able to shake this loss off much faster. That is something the whole team needs to do in a hurry.

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Old
01-20-2013, 11:20 AM
  #860
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Originally Posted by sully61 View Post
People hoping Nyquist and Tatar are going to help this team are blind. Against a team like St. Louis we need size not skill. Those two will be awful as well.
People who don't think Nyquist or Tatar will help this team are blind. Against a team like St. Louis where we lacked speed, more speed would help. Those two would be awesome as well.

It's easy to do that as well.

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Old
01-20-2013, 11:22 AM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Why were they flying with a private Jet to Suter's home trying to get him signed? Doesn't look like they are short of money and saving it for baseball.

It's more of preparation for the cap coming down. There was a speculation it would have happen for this season, but now there's a one year delay.

Until 2011 we were against the cap spending as much we could. Rafalski retired one year earlier than planned and that opened the payroll for season 2011-12. Cheaper White was the replacement. Same happened now with Lidström+Stuart.

And there was no same class replacements available for them expect Suter. They tried him. Didn't get him. Ericsson was planned for Stuart role, and than opens a spot for prospect Smith. Nothing wrong in these plans.
Yes, of course, there are explanations. They didn't offer Suter or Parise the most money. That's the reality. And the team has lost various key players, replaced them with cheap but unproven players from within the org or lower end free agents. The only way you don't get worse in relation to other teams in that scenario is if all your bets work out for you - which rarely happens.

Another reality is that the Wings' payroll has been around 60$ million for four seasons now. That was then near the top of the league, now it's decidedly average. It's not hard to imagine that 60 +/- 1 million is actually the benchmark that Holland has to live by.

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Old
01-20-2013, 11:26 AM
  #862
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Originally Posted by sully61 View Post
People hoping Nyquist and Tatar are going to help this team are blind. Against a team like St. Louis we need size not skill. Those two will be awful as well.
Is St. Louis just some unstoppable force? Its not all about size, skill can overcome size. Right now we have a bunch of no-skilled, slow skating, average sized guys who just get bullied over by bigger teams. Nyquist and Tatar bring a lot more to the table than Cleary, Miller, etc.

Size isn't everything.

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Old
01-20-2013, 11:26 AM
  #863
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same thing I posted on other thread

well if we are as bad as some people think we are, good thing is this season has only 47 games left (don't have to suffer much) and get top 5 pick.

worst will be if we miss the playoff as 9th or 10th in WC

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Old
01-20-2013, 11:28 AM
  #864
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No, Dats is going to go back to Russia if he doesn't resign with the Wings.
That is actually what I meant.

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Old
01-20-2013, 11:36 AM
  #865
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Players like Bertuzzi and Penner always do well against the Blues, at least, they did recently. If Datsyuk and Zetterberg can't get it going against Backes and Oshie, what makes you think a couple of speedy forwards can do anything against someone like a confident Berglund? Detroit, in my eyes, needs to get some serious help on the first/second line wing. That all starts with separating Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Just my opinion though.

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Old
01-20-2013, 11:56 AM
  #866
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Somebody at EA sports screwed up big time when they rated the Wings defense as being 4/5 stars in NHL13.

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Old
01-20-2013, 12:02 PM
  #867
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What I fear the most and I don't have any proof of this is if Datsyuk just bails after the season and goes back to Russia for a boatload of money.

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Old
01-20-2013, 12:05 PM
  #868
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Tank and get Seth Jones + Robert Hägg in the draft to get a top D-pair for 15 years

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Old
01-20-2013, 12:09 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
What I fear the most and I don't have any proof of this is if Datsyuk just bails after the season and goes back to Russia for a boatload of money.
Maybe not after this season, but after his contract is up I think he's gone. 95% certain.

Also for those saying internal cap, Holland just offered 90+ mil to Suter and believe it or not but the Wings still have an above average high payroll. It's just used on garbage

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01-20-2013, 12:22 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Is St. Louis just some unstoppable force? Its not all about size, skill can overcome size. Right now we have a bunch of no-skilled, slow skating, average sized guys who just get bullied over by bigger teams. Nyquist and Tatar bring a lot more to the table than Cleary, Miller, etc.

Size isn't everything.
With guys like Lidstrom and Rafalski, that was true. The skill on our blueline is not going to overcome size, they are going to crumble, panic, and make fatal errors.

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01-20-2013, 12:29 PM
  #871
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Team has too many bottom six forwards and third pairing D-men masquerading as top six/ top pairing players.

Wings need talent, not more grit.

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Old
01-20-2013, 12:32 PM
  #872
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Even if tatar and nyquist dont put us over the top in a game like this. They need to be getting nhl experience. See how the best teams in the nhl play firsthand

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Old
01-20-2013, 12:38 PM
  #873
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Originally Posted by kypredsfan View Post
So were the Blues just cherry picking all game for those breakaways or were the legit defensive breakdowns? We got them on Monday and I'm curious.
They were cherry picking and their 180 foot passes were going right through the Wings' defensemen. Quincey was right in the passing lane trying to defend on one of Tarasenko's goals and the puck just went right through him.

A couple of the PP goals were just bad coverage. On one goal, Smith got caught way out of position and then ran out of position on the other side trying to recover.

Basically they made every kind of defensive mistake that they could possibly make, short of scoring on their own goal during a delayed penalty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky9er View Post
When Mursak plays in the NHL, Mursak gets hurt....and that hasn't changed. He won't be around much longer, he can't take the physical game at this level....especially on this team.

St Louis imposed their will from the outset and Detroit had no answers. The Captain got sat on his arse, and there was no reply. Kinda sad, this team is going to be physically dominated on most nights. Nyquist or Tatar are not going to change that either. They would just be getting in line for the abuse.
I've been trying to make this point about Mursak and Kindl and some of the other guys, but nobody is interested in hearing it.

The guys that are stuck in the minors, they may be better than some of the guys on the roster. Except Andersson, he's just another Matt Ellis. But I digress.

The guys that have been on the roster for 2, 3, 4 years - Mursak, Kindl, Emmerton - these guys are not good enough to fret about. They are not impact players. They're not going to get waived and go somewhere and score 40 goals or win a Norris.

The coaches see these guys practice against the rest of the team every day, and they don't get ice time. This is not accidental. They're just not as good as the other guys.

When people complain about the Wings keeping their players in the minors too long, they're missing the point - it's not about development strategy, it's about talent selection in the first place. The Wings have not had a player with Tarasenko's talent since Z came up. If a guy in their system is so clearly ready for the NHL, they bring him up.

The problem is that they haven't been drafting any of those guys. Nyquist is talented but not dominant. Tatar is talented but not dominant. Smith is talented but either not talented enough or too lazy to become dominant.

People can complain about the Wings not having 19 year olds in their lineup, ready to tear up the NHL. But that's because their draft strategy is to select guys that aren't going to be remotely close to being ready at 19. Part of that is the fact that they always draft late and usually dump their 1st round picks. Part of it is that they simply don't draft well in the early rounds, and that's where your Pietrangelos and Tarasenkos and Webers and Suters come from.

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Old
01-20-2013, 12:40 PM
  #874
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Blues fan coming in peacefully.

I think the Wings struggled defensively, thats for sure. But it's only one game. Don't start thinking about the top-5 picks or anything like that. I mean yea, you guys lost to the Blues by 6, but the Blues were the top team in the central last year. The wings are gonna beat teams like CBJ, CAL, COL, etc. I wouldnt get too down.

Also, where were Zetterberg and Datsyuk? I hear all the complaints about defense, but if the offense only gets 14 shots, and Z and D are nowhere to be seen, than this team is gonna struggle.

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Old
01-20-2013, 01:48 PM
  #875
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When people complain about the Wings keeping their players in the minors too long, they're missing the point - it's not about development strategy, it's about talent selection in the first place. The Wings have not had a player with Tarasenko's talent since Z came up. If a guy in their system is so clearly ready for the NHL, they bring him up.

The problem is that they haven't been drafting any of those guys. Nyquist is talented but not dominant. Tatar is talented but not dominant. Smith is talented but either not talented enough or too lazy to become dominant.

People can complain about the Wings not having 19 year olds in their lineup, ready to tear up the NHL. But that's because their draft strategy is to select guys that aren't going to be remotely close to being ready at 19. Part of that is the fact that they always draft late and usually dump their 1st round picks. Part of it is that they simply don't draft well in the early rounds, and that's where your Pietrangelos and Tarasenkos and Webers and Suters come from.
Weber was actually 2nd rounder, #49 or something like that. But I agree with your point.

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