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Lupul extended - 5 years x 5.25m

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01-20-2013, 02:19 PM
  #326
mapleleaf979
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Originally Posted by cps230 View Post
Why because they're re-signing key components of what they think is their core? how does re-signing arguably the best UFA winger make the team finish last for next decade? It's not like we have a good track record of signing any impact FA so might as well keep the good ones we already have, right? Isnt the point of a GOOD team is to keep the GOOD player? With your logic this team would just be a vicious circle of having good players and then trading them off for spects and picks, waiting the 2-5 years for them to develop just to ship them off for picks and spects again.
Key components after 1 year? I have more patience. I like Lupul, its too early to dish out that kind of money for him, imo.

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01-20-2013, 02:21 PM
  #327
HockeyThoughts
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Parise and Grabovski are both 50'ish point/season guys and got similar cash, to I guess the gamble is that he is 50-60pts at worst...and in his career he's up and down over that mark with a lot of volitility

A gamble nonetheless, but the value is right if this was Nonis' reasoning
Parise is in a completely different class than either Grabovski or Lupul and he is paid as such with a 7.5M cap hit over the next 13 seasons. He's a legit #1 LW, a sure bet for 30G+, career high of 45G-94pts and is likely a forward good for ~70pts on a year to year basis.

Grabovski and Lupul fall into the tier below Parise. Not quite as proven as Parise (smaller sample size of success) yet surely solid top 6 contributors with the ability to hit 30G-60pts in a good year.

Big difference between being a lock for 30G-60pts and having the ability to perform at that level on a season-to-season basis.

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01-20-2013, 02:22 PM
  #328
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Not a big fan of the signing at this point. If last year is the norm from here on out then it's actually real good...otherwise it's a disaster. I suppose they could use one of their buyouts on it if he craps the bed this season?

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01-20-2013, 02:22 PM
  #329
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Leafs were in a bit of a difficult position on this one. Its a bit of a risky move but its a risk that could pay off huge for them. They didn't want to risk Lupes leaving I don't think.

Price isn't bad, term is a bit lengthy. Regardless, I'm happy that Lupul is locked up. One of my favourite current Leafs.

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01-20-2013, 02:22 PM
  #330
mapleleaf979
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pretty sure its your logic that would make the leafs 30th place for the next decade. Not retaining your best players is such a great plan....
Ok so your on board with all the money thats dished out to unproven players. The list is long. Lupul has been traded 4 times. He seems to have proven himself over 1 with Leaf fans. The contract is too much too soon, U wait a month or two and what do u risk? Paying him 6 or 7? I doubt it. Lupul maximized his every dollar in this deal. He is payed more than Kessel, that makes sense? I like Lupul, buts its too much too soon.

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01-20-2013, 02:22 PM
  #331
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I think it was a mistake to sign him this early. We'll see if he can maintain his health and production.
Big time. Really don't like this contract, not sure if I dislike it more than Grabo's, it's pretty close; would have preferred to move him to an actual contender at the DL for a 1st.

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01-20-2013, 02:23 PM
  #332
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I think this is a fair signing. Re-signing Lupul is probably instrumental in keeping Kessel around, and that's whats most important to me.

Furthermore, since Lupul joined our roster at the tail-end of the 10/11 season, Kessel has blossomed into a confident PPG star player. He and Lupul share immense chemistry and make up 2/3 of one of the best top-lines leaguewide. As long as Lupul and Kessel continue playing together, Lupul will be well worth his 5.25M cap hit.

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01-20-2013, 02:24 PM
  #333
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I fundamentally disagree. Dion, as the captain, will want to be paid as such. The Leafs, just like in the case for Lupul, see him as more than a leader on the ice.



Perry, Getzalf, Kessel (re-signed), Phaneuf (re-signed), Lupul, Grabovski, and a #1 goaltender, do not work under the new CBA at a manageable level.



Zajac has chemistry with New Jersey's best line player, Grabovski does not. If Grabovski clicked with Kessel, his contract would eliminate the need for a #1 center.

I would rather re-sign Bozak and trade Grabovski for a nice package.



This entire team still spells mediocre with no available upgrade. That is the big picture that you are missing. Delegating valuable cap to good, but not great players, says that.



People just do not like to admit that it's a bad contract, so they avoid the conversation.
I said we'd deal Grabo to make it work. That would work under the CBA. How wouldn't it? Regardless, you said we can't sign either Getz or Perry now which is exaggerating big time since we could sign both with the 2 buyouts

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01-20-2013, 02:24 PM
  #334
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The only variable is injury, not skill. Healthy, he should be able to replicate last season consistently. I would rather overpay in this situation than a Kulemin situation where you don't know if he's ever gonna score at that pace again. Some of you are just nuts.. "Overpaid by 200k or so" makes it sound like ou are trying too hard

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01-20-2013, 02:24 PM
  #335
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FORWARDS
Joffrey Lupul ($5.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.000m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($5.500m) / Corey Perry ($7.500m)
Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m) / Jay McClement ($1.500m) / Matt Frattin ($0.925m)
Leo Komarov ($1.500m) / Tyler Bozak ($1.500m) / Mike Brown ($0.737m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Mike Kostka ($1.000m)
John-Michael Liles ($3.875m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($3.000m)
Jake Gardiner ($1.117m) / Korbinian Holzer ($1.000m)
GOALTENDERS
James Reimer ($1.800m)
Ben Scrivens ($0.613m)
BUYOUTS
Darcy Tucker ($1.000m) / Colby Armstrong ($1.000m)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,965,833; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $3,634,167


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01-20-2013, 02:25 PM
  #336
mapleleaf979
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Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
I think this is a fair signing. Re-signing Lupul is probably instrumental in keeping Kessel around, and that's whats most important to me.

Furthermore, since Lupul joined our roster at the tail-end of the 10/11 season, Kessel has blossomed into a confident PPG star player. He and Lupul share immense chemistry and make up 2/3 of one of the best top-lines leaguewide. As long as Lupul and Kessel continue playing together, Lupul will be well worth his 5.25M cap hit.
With Grabo and Lupul making 5.25, what now must we pay Kessel ? 7 million I imagine. The benchmark for those 2 players is too high. This just elevates other guys. I personally think Lupul and Grabo should be paid 4 million or 4.5 a year with that length @ 5years being fair. No forward should make more than Kessel right now.

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01-20-2013, 02:25 PM
  #337
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Glad he wants to be here and a part of our organization.

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01-20-2013, 02:25 PM
  #338
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geez guys have some faith. if he plays like last season he's worth the money, period. lots of skill, can flat out snipe, very physical, and gives lots of effort on the ice and in the corners. this is a top line forward no question about it and a good character/team player.

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01-20-2013, 02:26 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
Parise is in a completely different class than either Grabovski or Lupul and he is paid as such with a 7.5M cap hit over the next 13 seasons. He's a legit #1 LW, a sure bet for 30G+, career high of 45G-94pts and is likely a forward good for ~70pts on a year to year basis.
I meant Zajac. I thought I backspaced and retyped it but apparently I spaced out.

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01-20-2013, 02:29 PM
  #340
shakes
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
Ok so your on board with all the money thats dished out to unproven players. The list is long. Lupul has been traded 4 times. He seems to have proven himself over 1 with Leaf fans. The contract is too much too soon, U wait a month or two and what do u risk? Paying him 6 or 7? I doubt it. Lupul maximized his every dollar in this deal. He is payed more than Kessel, that makes sense? I like Lupul, buts its too much too soon.
He put up around 50 pts a season before he got injured and after he recuperated. $5.25 is fair value for that kind of output.

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01-20-2013, 02:31 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
With Grabo and Lupul making 5.25, what now must we pay Kessel ? 7 million I imagine. The benchmark for those 2 players is too high. This just elevates other guys. I personally think Lupul and Grabo should be paid 4 million or 4.5 a year with that length @ 5years being fair. No forward should make more than Kessel right now.
Unfortunately, you can't make a player sign a contract for whatever arbitrary amount you choose. They normally ask for market value. Kessel is very underpaid. You can't use that as a benchmark for other players or you would never sign anyone of skill

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01-20-2013, 02:34 PM
  #342
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Do we pay Darcy Tucker forever or something? He wasn't even a Leaf when Burke was here lol

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01-20-2013, 02:35 PM
  #343
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Not a big fan of the signing at this point. If last year is the norm from here on out then it's actually real good...otherwise it's a disaster. I suppose they could use one of their buyouts on it if he craps the bed this season?
you serious?

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01-20-2013, 02:35 PM
  #344
HockeyThoughts
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
With Grabo and Lupul making 5.25, what now must we pay Kessel ? 7 million I imagine. The benchmark for those 2 players is too high. This just elevates other guys. I personally think Lupul and Grabo should be paid 4 million or 4.5 a year with that length @ 5years being fair. No forward should make more than Kessel right now.
Kessel will definitely earn between then 6.5M to 7.5M level over the max contract. Just depends how much he wants to make.

Parise is a good comparable for Kessel as they are both top line wingers, locks for 30G, threat to post PPG, Americans ..etc Parise has a better career high but Kessel has the more recent success and he's younger. Parise is paid 7.5M but he signed at
market value as a UFA.

I say Kessel re-signs this offseason earning 7M over 8 years.

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01-20-2013, 02:36 PM
  #345
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Unfortunately, you can't make a player sign a contract for whatever arbitrary amount you choose. They normally ask for market value. Kessel is very underpaid. You can't use that as a benchmark for other players or you would never sign anyone of skill
Exactly, if Nonis can lock Kessel up for $7 mill per season for say 7 years, that's a fair deal .. I think, especially if he plays well again this year, a team would give him more in free agency

Plus with the new buyout options, teams aren't handicapped by these large contracts going forward .. Not that you want to hand them out at will, but it provides GM's to take risks on guys like Lupul .. Because the reward could be quite high .. The Leafs could be getting a 70 point, 25-30 goal scorer, who gels with our best forward and brings the best game out of him .. And THAT is a steal

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01-20-2013, 02:37 PM
  #346
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Do we pay Darcy Tucker forever or something? He wasn't even a Leaf when Burke was here lol
just goes to show what a horrible contract it was

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01-20-2013, 02:37 PM
  #347
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Do we pay Darcy Tucker forever or something? He wasn't even a Leaf when Burke was here lol
yea we pay him next season and then he's off.

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01-20-2013, 02:38 PM
  #348
mapleleaf979
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Unfortunately, you can't make a player sign a contract for whatever arbitrary amount you choose. They normally ask for market value. Kessel is very underpaid. You can't use that as a benchmark for other players or you would never sign anyone of skill
Yes I agree over the last few years, salary benchmarks are much higher. Kessel deserves 6 or 6.5 max in my view. I still think those salaries are a touch too high in view. My reasoning is this, Grabovski is inconsistent from game to game. Some games almost invisible and others a very impact player with high end skill. Lupul for me, everything he did last year was something the LEafs needed badly. A physical skilled player who can open up room for Kessel, bang in the corners and digs out pucks for Kessel. It has not been proven over his career to be durable. Why not wait 15 games? Thats all. I still think 4 to 4.5 should have been it.

Lupul turns 30 in September. His new contract kicks in starting in OCtober 2013. He will be 34 and 35 and making that money? That may hurt u down the road.

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01-20-2013, 02:38 PM
  #349
HockeyThoughts
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Do we pay Darcy Tucker forever or something? He wasn't even a Leaf when Burke was here lol
Next season is the last season he is on the books.

A good example of how stupid a buy-out actually is.. Why not just waive the player? Or trade him to a team looking for a talented player who might bounce-back. Tucker was a versatile forward able of slotting in on any of your 4 lines, was feisty, physical and was great on the PP. Even with an inflated salary I find it hard to believe there was absolutely no market for Tucker coming off a ~20G-40pt (prorated) season, especially considering he was able to get a 2 year contract the very next season

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01-20-2013, 02:39 PM
  #350
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A tall order, but feels good nonetheless!

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Thrilled to be a Maple Leaf for 5 more years. Look forward to doing everything I can to help bring a Stanley Cup to Toronto.

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