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P.K Subban Thread 4.0 - Still Unsigned Edition

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01-20-2013, 01:59 PM
  #251
E = CH²
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Originally Posted by paddy View Post
Players that held out like Yashin were villified, but PK has the right to because he's worth it, right? It's the Habs that are stupid and stubborn, right.

Right.
Not.

Edit: in case sarcasm detector is off...
Yeah you don't know what you're talking about. Yashin refused to honor his contract. Subban is a RFA and doesn't have a contract. It's completely different.

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01-20-2013, 02:00 PM
  #252
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I seriously doubt it, he'd get 2 to 2.5 mil tops. He hasn't proven anything yet. Last year he sucked for half the season before he got off his sophomore jinx. He should just take the offer whatever that may be and go for the big money next time.
He had a few bad games at the beginning of the season and, somehow, that equates to sucking for half a season?

He was MUCH better as a sophomore than he was as a rookie.

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01-20-2013, 02:01 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Railman View Post
He had a few bad games at the beginning of the season and, somehow, that equates to sucking for half a season?

He was MUCH better as a sophomore than he was as a rookie.
He had a few brain cramps that ended up on highlight reels on RDS and TSN and it translated into OMG Soffmore slump!!1!

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01-20-2013, 02:02 PM
  #254
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Maybe PK's just not as good as many seem to think he is. Today watching Tyler Myers, that's elite talent. Honestly not trolling I love Subban.

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01-20-2013, 02:05 PM
  #255
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Flyers about to go winless in their first 2 games.. When can we expect the Subban offersheet from Holmgren?

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01-20-2013, 02:09 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
If I'm a player, I calculate what Bergevin gives me because of his stupid bridge rule, and when it's time to negotiate the next contract, he'll have to add what I lost during that period. You then have to add a few more dollars because of the pressure and the taxes and you are up for a major overpayment. I have no idea how Bergevin calculate his thing.

I guess that's what happens when you keep a Boivin in the financial aspect of the team.
At this point, I don't think the term is the issue anymore. If what was said is true, I think PK might have agreed to this 2year deal, if it wasn't for so little cash. I mean, MDZ type of cash? That's completely ridiculous. Heck, I think it's an embarrassing deal, so I can't start to imagine what Meehan and PK are thinking..(if the numbers are correct)

I certainly hope it's not true, because otherwise:
Prust deal (10M 4y for a scrapper? Even if good, that's a lot of dough for that type of role player. Moen type of cash makes more sense)
Price deal (Love Price, but I don't think he should be the 3rd highest paid goalie in the NHL)
Not being capable of re-signing your best player.
Signing guys like Armstrong and Bouillon. (I get that we wanted more physicality, but I think Prust was enough, especially at his price. With White and Moen already here, it wasn't a necessity. However, skill up front was a need, more specifically, someone that can dangle the puck, and Bergevin admitted having no interest in the guys that offered that)
The hiring of Therrien (the focus on french is not something I agree with. Limits your pool. Imagine they did the same with players, we'd have a hard time competing with other teams. I'll give a chance to Therrien, but I disagree with this philosophy.)

I'm not really sold on how Bergevin has handled things so far. Not saying it's bad, I don't know, time will tell, but I'm not sold. And I was all for Bergevin coming here, so it's not like I wasn't happy with the hiring.

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01-20-2013, 02:11 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
He had a few brain cramps that ended up on highlight reels on RDS and TSN and it translated into OMG Soffmore slump!!1!
He was ridiculously effective EV/PK (the icetime to goals against ratio is crazy good and way better than anyone on the team). Pretty much the only real flaw in game last season was not being a legit powerplay QB despite getting ample PP time. Of course, it is also a way to weed out who actually followed Subban's game last season as many out there still suggest that the offensive production has been his strength.

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01-20-2013, 02:13 PM
  #258
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I still think a bridge contract is the way to go but not at 2.5-3 (as hot stove reported) thats way too low.

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01-20-2013, 02:13 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
Flyers about to go winless in their first 2 games.. When can we expect the Subban offersheet from Holmgren?
Their cap hit is 70M and they don't even have a goalie! I wouldn't expect a huge offersheet.

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01-20-2013, 02:14 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Maybe PK's just not as good as many seem to think he is. Today watching Tyler Myers, that's elite talent. Honestly not trolling I love Subban.
Myers is entering his 4th year. PK has just the same potential as this kid.
Also Myers struggled a lot more in his sophomore season, more so than whatever ''struggles'' PK had, and last year, he was injured for close to 30games. Yet they gave him a 7y deal after his ELC.

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01-20-2013, 02:16 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
He was ridiculously effective EV/PK (the icetime to goals against ratio is crazy good and way better than anyone on the team). Pretty much the only real flaw in game last season was not being a legit powerplay QB despite getting ample PP time. Of course, it is also a way to weed out who actually followed Subban's game last season as many out there still suggest that the offensive production has been his strength.
I know, right? Whenever I hear people judging Subban solely on his offensive production or bringing the term 'offensive defenseman' into it, I start rolling my eyes.

It's really funny. For once, Habs fans aren't actually overrating one of their young guns. He actually is that good.

As for being a legit PP QB, I'm not sure if he'll ever have the vision for that, but I've learned it's foolish to doubt this kid, so who knows? I'd love for someone to really teach him how to keep that slapper under control, he could be a very dangerous trigger man.

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01-20-2013, 02:21 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
If I'm a player, I calculate what Bergevin gives me because of his stupid bridge rule, and when it's time to negotiate the next contract, he'll have to add what I lost during that period. You then have to add a few more dollars because of the pressure and the taxes and you are up for a major overpayment. I have no idea how Bergevin calculate his thing.
That's a great way of looking at it. Another good idea would be to tack on a $1M+ signing bonus for this year. Something that isn't going to be pro-rated by the shortened season. Then indeed, price for a long-term deal just went up by about $5M too. The player needs to get playing, but he doesn't need to let go of everything by doing so.

Subban's getting a lot of exposure to the "it's just business" side of things this year... hope that doesn't take too much of an edge off his enthusiasm to be a Hab, which was so endearing. Habs are silly to put a price on that and sacrifice it so willingly.

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01-20-2013, 02:28 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
That's a great way of looking at it. Another good idea would be to tack on a $1M+ signing bonus for this year. Something that isn't going to be pro-rated by the shortened season. Then indeed, price for a long-term deal just went up by about $5M too. The player needs to get playing, but he doesn't need to let go of everything by doing so.

Subban's getting a lot of exposure to the "it's just business" side of things this year... hope that doesn't take too much of an edge off his enthusiasm to be a Hab, which was so endearing. Habs are silly to put a price on that and sacrifice it so willingly.
Ya greedy selfish habs trying to evaluate players and cautiously build for a lowered cap. Can't they just pay PK for his passion? 1 1/2 seasons is more than enough, give the kid 7 million for the next 10 years, he is gonna be a HOFer FFS!

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01-20-2013, 02:36 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I know, right? Whenever I hear people judging Subban solely on his offensive production or bringing the term 'offensive defenseman' into it, I start rolling my eyes.

It's really funny. For once, Habs fans aren't actually overrating one of their young guns. He actually is that good.

As for being a legit PP QB, I'm not sure if he'll ever have the vision for that, but I've learned it's foolish to doubt this kid, so who knows? I'd love for someone to really teach him how to keep that slapper under control, he could be a very dangerous trigger man.
So if he's not an offensive defensman then he should get georges money right? Not 6 mill a year

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01-20-2013, 02:40 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by DJ Breadman View Post
So if he's not an offensive defensman then he should get georges money right? Not 6 mill a year
Good god man, that went right over your head.

You've heard the term " two way defenseman", yes?

And we DON't KNOW what kind of money he's asking for.

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01-20-2013, 02:41 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Good god man, that went right over your head.

You've heard the term " two way defenseman", yes?
I play hockey so yes, PK is still asking for too much money doesn't change anything

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01-20-2013, 02:43 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by DJ Breadman View Post
I play hockey so yes, PK is still asking for too much money doesn't change anything
Well I play NHL 13 so I have more experience handing out contracts than you. So there.




Also, who is your source on how much PK is asking for? HF has a vetting system for insiders.

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01-20-2013, 02:45 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Ya greedy selfish habs trying to evaluate players and cautiously build for a lowered cap. Can't they just pay PK for his passion? 1 1/2 seasons is more than enough, give the kid 7 million for the next 10 years, he is gonna be a HOFer FFS!
Sure, because that's exactly what people are saying..

Why discuss things when you can't keep up with the discussion?

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01-20-2013, 02:45 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Also, who is your source on how much PK is asking for? HF has a vetting system for insiders.
It annoys me so much to have no idea what he asks and what they offer!! Where is Eklund when we need him???

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01-20-2013, 02:47 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
He was ridiculously effective EV/PK (the icetime to goals against ratio is crazy good and way better than anyone on the team). Pretty much the only real flaw in game last season was not being a legit powerplay QB despite getting ample PP time. Of course, it is also a way to weed out who actually followed Subban's game last season as many out there still suggest that the offensive production has been his strength.
For a lot of people, defense is:

1. Being huge.
2. Guarding the front of the net.
3. Hitting guys
4. Blocking shots


The idea that the best defense is having the puck and keeping the other team from getting it is one of the many modern ideas that have yet to penetrate casual fan discussions.

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01-20-2013, 02:50 PM
  #271
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What is being lost is the fact that the habs would be buying a huge chunk of his prime years on an eight year deal. That contract would cover his 23-31 seasons. Also assuming league revenues grow at around 5%, then a contract that pays him 5 million today will be quite reasonable/cap friendly as it reaches the mid point.

Like others have pointed out, pk is not in the same situation as price an paces. What more did he need to show the habs during the past two seasons?

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01-20-2013, 03:05 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well what could happen from the player's perspective and CLEARLY not ours, is that PK accepts a RFA offer sheet or ask for a trade. Which will totally put the team to a disadvantage big time WAY MORE than Bergevin going with another deal that his 2-year deal.

I mean didn't we just have a lockout? To me, Bergevin acts like the NHL. Neither believed that the other side would go as far as they're doing. NHL thought NHLPA would crumble. And Bergevin thought Subban would sign right away. Neither is happening. One thing is sure, even if PK just accepts what's going on, he will have a sour taste in his mouth and it won't be easy for us in the future. What Bergevin's structure will do is that while the players will know that Mr. Hardball will always offer you a contract bridge and you will have to accept it, he will also see that the other teams's aren't working like that so our players will be more eager to go the UFA route to gain the money that they just lost with Bergevin's new "system".
I'm guessing that not many very enticing offer sheets have made their way to Mehan's desk concerning Subban for a few reasons. First, if a ridiculous offer sheet was there he would probably have taken it unless he really wants to stay in Montreal PK did mention that was his goal. Since we would know about this within 24 hours, this probably did not happen yet. Over $6,268,176 we would get two first round picks so it's not that bad to loose Subban for that. Second, if a reasonable offer sheet was presented and PK signed it (let's say 4.5 million over 5 years) MB would have matched it, the compensation is just too low around that range. Third, if Bergevin is only offering a stupidly low short term-contract (let's say 2-2-5 million for two years and this is offending to PK he should go for any offer sheet that have been presented to him that is better than what's on the table from MB. The Habs would likely match that as well because the compensation is just too low.

Although I think PK is a great player, I just don't think the offer sheets are pilling up.

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01-20-2013, 03:10 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
I'm guessing that not many very enticing offer sheets have made their way to Mehan's desk concerning Subban for a few reasons. First, if a ridiculous offer sheet was there he would probably have taken it unless he really wants to stay in Montreal PK did mention that was his goal. Since we would know about this within 24 hours, this probably did not happen yet. Over $6,268,176 we would get two first round picks so it's not that bad to loose Subban for that. Second, if a reasonable offer sheet was presented and PK signed it (let's say 4.5 million over 5 years) MB would have matched it, the compensation is just too low around that range. Third, if Bergevin is only offering a stupidly low short term-contract (let's say 2-2-5 million for two years and this is offending to PK he should go for any offer sheet that have been presented to him that is better than what's on the table from MB. The Habs would likely match that as well because the compensation is just too low.

Although I think PK is a great player, I just don't think the offer sheets are pilling up.
I agree with this, because at this point, PK could sign it with the only intention of using it as leverage with the habs. Perhaps he wouldn't want to chance the habs not matching. I prefer not to play the guessing game tho. I think it's fair to assume that since there has been zero mention of it, the most likely scenario is that there haven't been any, but who really knows.

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01-20-2013, 03:11 PM
  #274
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Last night on hotstove there was an exchange between PJ Stock and Kevin Weekes about PK's "off ice questions", something that Weekes dismissed as a dollar factor but he never really denied as existing.

Anybody have an specific idea of what they are referring to? There's a lot of innuendo around this player but I suspect PJ doesn't just go around spreading gossip.

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01-20-2013, 03:14 PM
  #275
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PK having fun at the raptors game

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