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Mark Scheifele sent back to Barrie Colts (OHL)

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01-20-2013, 12:29 PM
  #26
fergiesbeak
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he doesn't seem too strong out there and really why hurry him into the lineup. go back to junior and next year the rock.scheiffe need to play against the big boys in the ahl before playing here.he's got talent but he should get seasoned more.i think it would be best for him in the long run and of course the jets

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01-20-2013, 12:40 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Ziggy66 View Post
I originally thought before the season started that we should give him 5 games and send him down. But after watching him play we might as well keep him up and toughen him up. He can only improve physically and the only way he can do that is playing in the NHL. Let him stay and harden the **** up
I agree. I thought he played pretty good. At least you noticed him out there - unlike allot of the other forwards...

And the argument about him hitting the deck - like someone else said, Hartnell spends 2x more time with his ass on the ice than Mark does.

At this point I really believe he should stay. He is not going to get any better/stronger playing against kids. The time is now to play with the men and continue to improve at this level.

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01-20-2013, 12:42 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by fergiesbeak View Post
he doesn't seem too strong out there and really why hurry him into the lineup. go back to junior and next year the rock.scheiffe need to play against the big boys in the ahl before playing here.he's got talent but he should get seasoned more.i think it would be best for him in the long run and of course the jets
Really don't get this send a guy back to junior or to the AHL if he is NHL ready right now, you do know Burmi played 22 games in St. Johns this year and managed only 2 goals does that mean he shouldn't be in the NHL?

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01-20-2013, 12:43 PM
  #29
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I don't disagree with the strength arguments, but watching the game (live) yesterday, he was one of the few noticable forwards, that generated a few chances.

4 more games - if he progresses, it'll be a very interesting decision for the coaching and front office staff. If he doesn't, the decision won't be difficult.

I do wish that they'd slide Slater to the wing after the FO is taken - Scheifele's much stronger down the middle, when he can stay on his stride.

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01-20-2013, 12:45 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
This is a Gary Lawless style non-argument. A shortened season does nothing but favor Scheifele. First, he's more game ready than any of his team mates. Second he'll actually play more games in the NHL.

It doesn't matter if it's a 1 game or an 82 game season, if he's ready we should play him.
That was my original point as well. I don't understand the "why waste him on a 48 game season" argument to not keep him up here.

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01-20-2013, 12:48 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
This is a Gary Lawless style non-argument. A shortened season does nothing but favor Scheifele. First, he's more game ready than any of his team mates. Second he'll actually play more games in the NHL.

It doesn't matter if it's a 1 game or an 82 game season, if he's ready we should play him.
Exactly. This idea that the season length has anything to do with the decision is unfounded.

If he is good enough to help the team, he will stay.

If he is not good enough to help the team, he will go.

If he is good enough to help the team and he goes anyway, it's because management has decided the Jets are not a playoff team this year - no matter how they try and sell it to people like Lawless.

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01-20-2013, 12:51 PM
  #32
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I trust TNSE to make the right decision. They don't seem the type to keep a player up if they don't think he's ready.

I do agree with Gump's point as well about him being out of position. It would be nice to see MS play a few games in the middle where he is more comfortable.

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01-20-2013, 12:52 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Really don't get this send a guy back to junior or to the AHL if he is NHL ready right now, you do know Burmi played 22 games in St. Johns this year and managed only 2 goals does that mean he shouldn't be in the NHL?
i don't think he is nhl ready.if you do fine.as for burmi that to me is a prime example of rushing someone into the lineup when they weren't ready.the jets need to develop players thats what the ahl is for.learn our system and what is expected of you playing both ends of the rink so when your called up your much more ready.

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01-20-2013, 12:53 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by thed00d View Post
That was my original point as well. I don't understand the "why waste him on a 48 game season" argument to not keep him up here.
basically from my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) he is addressing scheifs entry level contract. If he only plays 5 and is sent down then his contract will slide one more year. So if he plays this whole season his contract will be up one year sooner after a 48 games season instead of a full regular season.

I think it is a dumb arguement as we have so much cap space it doesnt matter if we resign him a year early..........we may not even resign him..who knows....but I do know we should give this kid a shot in the NHL and see where he stands instead of putting him back in the Jrs to dominate against subpar competition.

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01-20-2013, 01:01 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
(...)
I do agree with Gump's point as well about him being out of position. It would be nice to see MS play a few games in the middle where he is more comfortable.
Me too: if nothing else, have Slater take FO's, then slide to the wing and let Scheifele cover the C position.

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01-20-2013, 01:18 PM
  #36
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I think he should stay up, if he keeps playing at yesterday's level or better. I would like to see someone on this team who really, really wants to learn and do well, even if he's not perfect yet. It would help set the right tone for the whole team.

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01-20-2013, 01:22 PM
  #37
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It's not that I necessarily think he should stay up, but that I am not sure what is left to do in junior. How many games would he play in junior to finish out the year? Not a ton. No major strength gains are going to be made during the season be it in junior or the NHL. That is offseason work. Point being, does it really matter then whether he is up in the L or down in Barrie if the issue is strength? I'm not sure what the right decision is, but it appears as though he has NHL ready skills, and is already one of our more skilled players.

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01-20-2013, 01:25 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Lynk View Post
Burmi's not the one falling on his ass after every little touch.

Yes he's got many areas he needs to improve, but he also was a part of the only line that controlled some offensive pressure last night.
And contributed zero points ... not saying Sheifele should stay but he created , instinctually got to scoring positions , and had offensive pressure yesterday.

It may be that a 48 game season would better prepare him for next year than being back in Barrie. That should be the focus imo , if he stays and plays , he won't be bumping a good player off the roster , what benefits him the most and thus the Jets. Bottom line , it isn't about this year imo.

I saw more positives from his game yesterday than negatives and certainly as a whole the team didn't show that. I also likehis compete level and yes I want him upright more than he has been but it was really evident at least to me , that this team still needs it's compete level upped , throughout most of the lineup.

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01-20-2013, 01:38 PM
  #39
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I dont get the "its not 82 games so why keep him up argument"

If the season was 82 games and we were only keeping him for 48 i could understand it but right now it doesnt matter. The amount of games is arbitrary. Its still a full season.

If he makes this team better keep him. Im of the opinion that playing around 13 sheltered NHL minutes will help his NHL career more than dominating teenagers anyway.

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01-20-2013, 01:38 PM
  #40
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I think Mark has come along way since his first stint in the NHL regular season. Sure he gets knocked down a bit but he gets up and goes to the dirty areas and puts himself into position to score. We have 4 games left and I would like to see him get some time at centre and I would like to see him get some time on the 2nd PP unit.

Lets let the next few games play out right now he is certainly not out of place and he is showing some signs that are very positive. For all we know one of our key top 6 players will get hurt and we will need Mark.

IF he gives the Jets a shot at being better and If TNSE deem that it will help his development to stay up then I have no issues with Mark playing on the big club.

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01-20-2013, 01:59 PM
  #41
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I'm not sure honestly. He reads the play well, and should be a serious offensive threat. But man is his balance awful? If he keeps falling down like that every game (and it's not just this game, it was the entire WJC too), I don't think he'll help the team much, and he might get hurt. I mean, he seems to be bouncing up pretty quickly, but I feel like an injury isn't too far away if he spends that much time on the ice.

That being said, it's not a coincidence that he ended up completely open in front of Anderson. He knows where to go on the ice. If only he had better balance, I would say keep him up. As it stands now, I'm not sure. Let these 5 games play out, and then decide.

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01-20-2013, 02:04 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
I'm not sure honestly. He reads the play well, and should be a serious offensive threat. But man is his balance awful? If he keeps falling down like that every game (and it's not just this game, it was the entire WJC too), I don't think he'll help the team much, and he might get hurt. I mean, he seems to be bouncing up pretty quickly, but I feel like an injury isn't too far away if he spends that much time on the ice.

That being said, it's not a coincidence that he ended up completely open in front of Anderson. He knows where to go on the ice. If only he had better balance, I would say keep him up. As it stands now, I'm not sure. Let these 5 games play out, and then decide.
That's a good point and a small concern of mine as well. However the coaching staff could greatly alleviate this concern by putting him back at center where he wouldn't be asked to play in the trenches as much.

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01-20-2013, 02:10 PM
  #43
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How is he going to learn to stay on his feet if he doesn't play in the trenches? He's on the wing for a reason.

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01-20-2013, 02:13 PM
  #44
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It's not that I necessarily think he should stay up, but that I am not sure what is left to do in junior. How many games would he play in junior to finish out the year? Not a ton. No major strength gains are going to be made during the season be it in junior or the NHL. That is offseason work. Point being, does it really matter then whether he is up in the L or down in Barrie if the issue is strength? I'm not sure what the right decision is, but it appears as though he has NHL ready skills, and is already one of our more skilled players.
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
And contributed zero points ... not saying Sheifele should stay but he created , instinctually got to scoring positions , and had offensive pressure yesterday.

It may be that a 48 game season would better prepare him for next year than being back in Barrie. That should be the focus imo , if he stays and plays , he won't be bumping a good player off the roster , what benefits him the most and thus the Jets. Bottom line , it isn't about this year imo.

I saw more positives from his game yesterday than negatives and certainly as a whole the team didn't show that. I also likehis compete level and yes I want him upright more than he has been but it was really evident at least to me , that this team still needs it's compete level upped , throughout most of the lineup.
Agree with both of these posts. At this stage, I think that Scheifele may learn more and progress more by staying with the big team. Between injuries and other situational opportunities, Scheifele would be a good fill-in, allowing him to work his way up from a 4th line role. He's got an instinctual nose for the net, proven by his creation of a couple of opportunities yesterday on the 4th line. How many chances to that line normally generate?

As Boreal states: the other things that Scheif needs to do will have to wait until the off-season anyway, as it's not really possible to do the type of training to gain bulk and improve his skating during either an NHL or OHL season.

I'm not sure I'd compare what he's currently doing to Burmi: I think Burmi looked fine on that 3rd line, and definitely liked some of the puck posession game they played yesterday. Some issues with them, but I see that line forming some good chemistry if they continue.

Anyway: all MO, and if he does get sent down, that's fine too. I'm simply of the opinion that 48 games in the NHL playing SOME role could prepare him for next year better than being sent down at this stage. If nothing else, you can't question his effort level, which is something that this team needs greatly.

EDIT: regarding the amount of time he spends on his a**, this is NOT something was as pronounced at the OHL level this year. It has been a concern as he moved to the wing for the WJC, and during this last game with the Jets. Very different requirements to get into the dirty areas on the wing, versus more defensive coverage requirements in front of the net and as a supporting player in a defensive role behind the net, etc, as a centre. This could be a very GOOD thing for his progression. Let him take his lumps - he too much of a battler to let it continue.

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01-20-2013, 02:22 PM
  #45
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Few topics and arguments are being argued at once. Some are general to Scheifele and some specific.

"Burning of ELC"
I liked this article: Why Your Team Is Going To Keep 'Burning' Entry Level Contract Years (So Stop Complaining About It Already).
Don't agree with everything but the essence of to me agrees with me. If a player is ready to be a valuable member of the team, it is worth it for the team to keep.

"What makes a player ready"
Well it's a tough call here and I guess a lot of it depends on role too. A more offensive style player may not be ready until they can play top 6 minutes. A more defensive player may be ready as soon as they can play on the 4th line. But, similarly to above, if a player can be a valuable piece to the team, then who's to really think the player is not ready.

"Will coming up to early harm progression"
In my mind yes. We have seen the effects but every player, position and role is different. Plus, there's a difference in whether a player is being sheltered or thrown to the wolves right away. IMHO, the best development situation for a player is playing in the highest level of hockey that they can actually compete in without being a liability. In other words, if they are a NHL level player then they would most likely gain more playing in the NHL than juniors or the AHL.

Scheifele...
I think "ready"-wise Scheifele is right on the border, to the point that it would be a tough call for anyone to decide concisely. He could potentially be a valuable player to this team. I wouldn't worry about the shortened season as he'd be getting more games played up in the NHL than he'll be getting in junior anyways. I wouldn't worry about his balance/weight issues as the team won't place him in situations where he can't handle himself and all the gains there are made in the offseason anyways. I wouldn't worry about him playing on the 4th line, as that likely wouldn't last long with the likely prevalence of injuries in a shortened season, and heck he was given more TOI than the other two 4th liners (and more time than one of the 3rd liners) in the first game.
If Mark is ready he should stay and if he isn't ready he should go back down, irregardless. Scheifele may be ready and he may not be ready; I can see arguments for both and I don't think anyone could say with 100% certainty of one or the other without talking a little bit of BS. I will trust Chevaldayoff with this decision and I really don't think I'll be angry at either.

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01-20-2013, 02:47 PM
  #46
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good post garret

It does seem like he is walking right on the border currently and I think we are going to have to lean on management here.

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01-20-2013, 02:55 PM
  #47
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IMO, Scheifele showed enough to me last night to make me believe that he should stay up. I'd even go as far as to stay that he was arguably our best forward at the end of the game (a lot of that has to do with the fact that he's in mid-season form). One of the best parts of the night was when Kane, Burmi and Scheifele played a shift together and actually created some chances. Replace Burmi with Jokinen and you have our new 2nd line.

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01-20-2013, 02:56 PM
  #48
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good post garret

It does seem like he is walking right on the border currently and I think we are going to have to lean on management here.
You make it sound like we have a say.

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01-20-2013, 03:00 PM
  #49
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IMO, Scheifele showed enough to me last night to make me believe that he should stay up. I'd even go as far as to stay that he was arguably our best forward at the end of the game (a lot of that has to do with the fact that he's in mid-season form). One of the best parts of the night was when Kane, Burmi and Scheifele played a shift together and actually created some chances. Replace Burmi with Jokinen and you have our new 2nd line.
I thought he looked good too, but this decision is and should be about far more than 1 game.

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01-20-2013, 03:02 PM
  #50
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I'm going to wait till the fifth game to make any decisions.
I thought he looked pretty good out there, but his balance is an issue.

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