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01-20-2013, 02:58 PM
  #276
calcal798
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Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
Here's a question. We all no what the direction of this team is and what the plan is or at least I hope most of us do to have a decent conversation of opinions to what I'll ask.

What are the trade chips for the Leafs?

IMO these guys aren't going anywhere any time soon so we should forget including them in trade discussions.

-Phaneuf
-Kessel
-Lupul
-Grabovski

These guys are the key vets to this team and the plan is to get good quality young guys into the mix that these guys will help insulate them to grow & develop

These guys aren't going anywhere either

-JVR
-Gardiner
-Kadri
-Reilly

These are the key young guys at the moment the organization is projecting to grow & develop to join the other 4 above as the core of the team moving forward as it stands.

For me the key trade chips that I think Nonis has, some of which could fit into the team moving forward are.

-MacArthur
-Liles
-Franson
-Kulemin
-Gunnarson
-Bozak
-All of the rest of the prospects
Well not that I have anything against Grabo. But I see him as a player that can be a trade chip in the future for some youth.

I only say that because with the cap I would rather spend that 5.5 million on a player that can be more influential (even if its more money). Most of the top teams in the league have 20-30 million ties up on 4 players. With Kessel Lupol and Phaneuf having about 18 million (next year) between them. Would way rather have another top forward at 7-8 (Perry) then a second line center at 5.5.

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01-20-2013, 03:11 PM
  #277
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agree. He barely produced more than bozak and we have no idea if he'd have any chemistry with lupul and kessel like bozak does. I want kadri to be given more ice time to prove himself. let's see if he can become our #1 center. then in the offseason we can attempt to sign getzlaf if he is still there. And if kadri blossoms we can move him to second line and try to trade/buyout grabovski. Bozak goes on third line and everything is good. We can then trade the KGM line purely for picks and/or prospects

JVR - Getzlaf - Perry
Lupul - Kadri - Kessel
Frattin - Bozak - Komorav
Orr - Mcclement - Brown
That second line would get absolutely lit up. Kessel and Lupul are already terrible defensively. Have to give them a defensively strong centre.

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01-20-2013, 03:24 PM
  #278
Ricky Bobby
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If we are to re-sign Bozak, Gunnarsson, Holzer, Kadri and Komarov, the total amount of their raises would equal the amount of Mike Komisarek, who will be bought out, thus approx 17 million in space in the offseason!
17 million with around 10 spots to still fill.

With Lupul, JVR, Kessel, Phaneuf, Grabo all making north of 4 million each we don't have as much cap space as people sometimes think.

Komi now has 48 game audition. I personally think he'll revive his career this season. Maybe not enough to justify a 4.5 million cap hit. But I think he can be around a 3.5 million Dman like a Brewer, Regher are worth.

With the lockout Komi finally had a chance to fully heal a lot of his injuries and with a coach who imposes a defensive structure (like Jacques Martin did in Montreal) he should be a lot better.

Then we only have 1 year left on his deal so if the right player isn't available in the summer we might be best to just ride out his contract.

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01-20-2013, 03:31 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
17 million with around 10 spots to still fill.

With Lupul, JVR, Kessel, Phaneuf, Grabo all making north of 4 million each we don't have as much cap space as people sometimes think.

Komi now has 48 game audition. I personally think he'll revive his career this season. Maybe not enough to justify a 4.5 million cap hit. But I think he can be around a 3.5 million Dman like a Brewer, Regher are worth.

With the lockout Komi finally had a chance to fully heal a lot of his injuries and with a coach who imposes a defensive structure (like Jacques Martin did in Montreal) he should be a lot better.

Then we only have 1 year left on his deal so if the right player isn't available in the summer we might be best to just ride out his contract.
Komisarek was great last night. Kept his game simple - pushed guys to the outside, got his stick in their way, separated them from the puck, hammered some guys.

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01-20-2013, 03:32 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
Well not that I have anything against Grabo. But I see him as a player that can be a trade chip in the future for some youth.

I only say that because with the cap I would rather spend that 5.5 million on a player that can be more influential (even if its more money). Most of the top teams in the league have 20-30 million ties up on 4 players. With Kessel Lupol and Phaneuf having about 18 million (next year) between them. Would way rather have another top forward at 7-8 (Perry) then a second line center at 5.5.
In a perfect world your probably right but those types of players aren't normally available they're usually drafted & developed in house to get. That's why it's important to keep Grabo where the organization stands right now he will help in the development of young guys... If one were to develop and look like is ready to be a player like you talk about or the organization trades for one he remains as a piece that go's nowhere.

We tend to expect that the only way the Leafs will improve is via trades or UFA, I've never believed that was the path Burke had for this team nor do I believe it's the path Nonis is on. If a star player is available sure they'll be on it doesn't mean that they'll be able to trade for them or sign them in UFA to make either Grabo or Lupul trades chips when the end result is no guaranty you land such players.

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01-20-2013, 03:40 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
Here's a question. We all know what the direction of this team is and what the plan is or at least I hope most of us do to have a decent conversation of opinions to what I'll ask.

What are the trade chips for the Leafs?

IMO these guys aren't going anywhere any time soon so we should forget including them in trade discussions.

-Phaneuf
-Kessel
-Lupul
-Grabovski

These guys are the key vets to this team and the plan is to get good quality young guys into the mix that these guys will help insulate them to grow & develop

These guys aren't going anywhere either

-JVR
-Gardiner
-Kadri
-Reilly

These are the key young guys at the moment the organization is projecting to grow & develop to join the other 4 above as the core of the team moving forward as it stands.

For me the key trade chips that I think Nonis has, some of which could fit into the team moving forward are.

-MacArthur
-Liles
-Franson
-Kulemin
-Gunnarson
-Bozak
-All of the rest of the prospects
Lupul, KEssel and Rielly are the only people you should not be willing to trade. And I only include Lupul because of his new deal and Lupes Troops.

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01-20-2013, 03:45 PM
  #282
dimi78
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Lupul, KEssel and Rielly are the only people you should not be willing to trade. And I only include Lupul because of his new deal and Lupes Troops.
First just to be clear for the right trade they're all trade chips under that context however you can't build a team without continuity a word that isn't understood to the importance of building a team into a winner.

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Old
01-20-2013, 03:56 PM
  #283
calcal798
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Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
In a perfect world your probably right but those types of players aren't normally available they're usually drafted & developed in house to get. That's why it's important to keep Grabo where the organization stands right now he will help in the development of young guys... If one were to develop and look like is ready to be a player like you talk about or the organization trades for one he remains as a piece that go's nowhere.

We tend to expect that the only way the Leafs will improve is via trades or UFA, I've never believed that was the path Burke had for this team nor do I believe it's the path Nonis is on. If a star player is available sure they'll be on it doesn't mean that they'll be able to trade for them or sign them in UFA to make either Grabo or Lupul trades chips when the end result is no guaranty you land such players.
Well I don't mean trading him right now. He is an important part of this team as it stands. Next year or the year after (if we can sign Perry as a FA) we will be resigning and hopefully adding core players. That is when I would look at a trade for Grabo. An addition by subtraction type deal, adding some youth by trading him, and opening up contract space.

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01-20-2013, 03:59 PM
  #284
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I wonder if Grabovski would be willing to restructure his contract for the Leafs. I know that he was given it because of his production, but if the Leafs were to restructure it so that he was given a signing bonus of 4 million, so that the Leafs could put his cap hit down to 4.75 or something in that area.... do you think he would give it a thought? He would still get the money that he's owed.

I also don't think that the Leafs trade MacArthur at all and I believe they let him walk in free agency. To be given the "A" and then dealt in the same shortened season would be a bit of a slap in the face. Not that it can't be done, just doesn't seem right to give the responsibilities to a guy that you don't see being here for a whole year.

Also, I hope this is the year that Nonis pulls the trigger on getting Pavelski from San Jose. I really think that San Jose doesn't want to lose Murray to free agency and with all the money that is tied up in contracts already, I hope they make space with clearing out JP.

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Old
01-20-2013, 04:09 PM
  #285
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mcbain was a healthy scratch in Car
I'd love to add him as another right handed dman

not sure what they'd want though

Gunnar for McBain +

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01-20-2013, 04:20 PM
  #286
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mcbain was a healthy scratch in Car
I'd love to add him as another right handed dman

not sure what they'd want though

Gunnar for McBain +
Nope. McBain is not what we need. I prefer Franson

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01-20-2013, 04:21 PM
  #287
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mcbain was a healthy scratch in Car
I'd love to add him as another right handed dman

not sure what they'd want though

Gunnar for McBain +
McBain is pure offense. We need d-men that can actually play defense. Gunnar is our best defensive defenseman.

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01-20-2013, 04:30 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
First just to be clear for the right trade they're all trade chips under that context however you can't build a team without continuity a word that isn't understood to the importance of building a team into a winner.
Quality over quantity. You need elite players to win. To turn down the chance to acquire an elite player for the sake of continuity is the recipe for prolonged mediocrity.

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01-20-2013, 04:32 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
Well I don't mean trading him right now. He is an important part of this team as it stands. Next year or the year after (if we can sign Perry as a FA) we will be resigning and hopefully adding core players. That is when I would look at a trade for Grabo. An addition by subtraction type deal, adding some youth by trading him, and opening up contract space.
Well my question was meant to be what is the current trade chips under the plan in place from Nonis from now until the draft... I maybe wasn't clear but with this post your agreeing Grabo isn't being looked at to be going anywhere at the moment which is exactly where I had him

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01-20-2013, 04:34 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Quality over quantity. You need elite players to win. To turn down the chance to acquire an elite player for the sake of continuity is the recipe for prolonged mediocrity.
I do believe I wrote this "First just to be clear for the right trade they're all trade chips under that context "

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01-20-2013, 04:43 PM
  #291
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I do believe I wrote this "First just to be clear for the right trade they're all trade chips under that context "
So then why you worried about continuity if you're willing to trade them all?

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01-20-2013, 04:47 PM
  #292
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Kessel is up if the price is right.

He has a NMC next year and then becomes a UFA.If someone offers a true number one center,he is fair game.Gardiner and Reilly are the present untouchables with Lupul unlikely to be going anywhere soon.

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01-20-2013, 04:52 PM
  #293
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He has a NMC next year and then becomes a UFA.If someone offers a true number one center,he is fair game.Gardiner and Reilly are the present untouchables with Lupul unlikely to be going anywhere soon.
Who are the Centers better than Kessel that we would trade him for?

HOw would you get them?

Who would they play with once here?

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01-20-2013, 05:06 PM
  #294
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I think with Lups signing today, and if Grabo has another off year, he might be the one to see the door next. especially if Kadri has a good season, Bozak would be alot cheaper to keep around as a 2nd or 3rd C. If we can get a true #1 of course. I like Grabo as a player. I am not knocking him at all. but i dont think you can keep that many 2nd line type players for that type of money and expect to make a decent roster. we need the cap for potential high talent. even if we were lucky enough to draft a mackinnon type guy in june, they probably wouldnt make a impact for atleast 2 years. we need to have a chance to make an impact with free agency and with grabo still here I dont think we can. even if it isnt grabo who does go, theres gotta be some movement this year on this roster somewhere.

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01-20-2013, 05:15 PM
  #295
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Who are the Centers better than Kessel that we would trade him for?

HOw would you get them?

Who would they play with once here?
It would have to be a deal for a top C prospect (i.e. Granlund) or a young C that has #1 potential (i.e. Couturier) because there isn't exactly a huge list of centres that are better than Kessel, let alone ones that are available.

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01-20-2013, 05:22 PM
  #296
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I wonder if Grabovski would be willing to restructure his contract for the Leafs. I know that he was given it because of his production, but if the Leafs were to restructure it so that he was given a signing bonus of 4 million, so that the Leafs could put his cap hit down to 4.75 or something in that area.... do you think he would give it a thought? He would still get the money that he's owed.

I also don't think that the Leafs trade MacArthur at all and I believe they let him walk in free agency. To be given the "A" and then dealt in the same shortened season would be a bit of a slap in the face. Not that it can't be done, just doesn't seem right to give the responsibilities to a guy that you don't see being here for a whole year.

Also, I hope this is the year that Nonis pulls the trigger on getting Pavelski from San Jose. I really think that San Jose doesn't want to lose Murray to free agency and with all the money that is tied up in contracts already, I hope they make space with clearing out JP.
I'm pretty sure that's not even allowed in the NHL even if Grabovski were willing to do it.

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01-20-2013, 05:38 PM
  #297
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Let's definitely not trade Phil.

We're not great, but we're two pieces away from being a solid, young playoff team.

A young, high potential goalie and center.

Bernier and C from this years draft. Also, I think Bozak has more to give. I'm not writing him off yet.

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01-20-2013, 05:39 PM
  #298
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If we somehow make the playoffs, we should trade Grabo ++ for the 3/6th overall pick

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01-20-2013, 05:39 PM
  #299
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It would have to be a deal for a top C prospect (i.e. Granlund) or a young C that has #1 potential (i.e. Couturier) because there isn't exactly a huge list of centres that are better than Kessel, let alone ones that are available.
NO to a prospect. Couturier is not enough. Huberdeau would get me interested. But I want someone more proven.

So basically there is no point in trading Kessel. So why not trade other players to bring in a center to play with him?

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01-20-2013, 05:47 PM
  #300
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macCarther new contract

assistant captain, should get at least 1mil raise, so 4.25 per for 5 years
or due we trade him at the deadline.
what if we are fighting for a playoff spot.
well they did make him an assistant, must be part of our future.

so what is he worth?

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