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All Encompassing Tanking/Rebuilding/Selling at Deadline Thread 2.0

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01-20-2013, 04:53 PM
  #151
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Work on your reading skills.

Nobody has suggested that drafting is the problem.

It's quite simple: our drafting is excellent, ergo we should stockpile as many picks as possible.
And yet, the only thing you have in your plan is drafting, nothing else...

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01-20-2013, 04:53 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
How about the team starts keeping them instead of trading them for next to nothing ?

Dont you think our future would be in better shape had we kept
- Sergei Kost (traded for virtually nothing)
- Latendresse (traded for a guy we've let go for free 18 months later)
- Lapierre

for example...
We trade those guys at minimal value instead of maximum value. That's the problem.

Counterexample: Jaroslav Halak, he was traded at maximum value.

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01-20-2013, 04:54 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
So the issue is Plekanec. Personally, I have never included Plekanec in my lists. I think he should stay.

The rest are easily replaceable in FA. They should be dealt. For example: Trade Gionta for 1st + prospect. Sign Morrow.

Really not that hard.
If it was that easy, there would be tons of 1st rounders traded every deadline...

non that hard

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01-20-2013, 04:54 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
So the issue is Plekanec. Personally, I have never included Plekanec in my lists. I think he should stay.

The rest are easily replaceable in FA. They should be dealt. For example: Trade Gionta for 1st + prospect. Sign Morrow.

Really not that hard.
Well, I use Plekanec as an example because I think he's the only vet that could give us a first rounder or high end prospect unless you include Gorges in this discussion. Maybe Cole, but it would be hard to justify trading Cole unless we immediately replace him.

The whole reason Gionta and Cole are expendable is because they are on the decline, and that's exactly the reason their value is limited. I actually think trading Gionta for a pick is a good idea, but we need to start using this pick and the cleared capspace from Gionta and the buyouts to bring in players who can contribute now.

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01-20-2013, 04:55 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
And yet, the only thing you have in your plan is drafting, nothing else...
Simply not true.

I also state we should maintain the core, leave our kids in Hamilton/Sarnia/Sweden for a comfortable amount of time, and clear cap space to focus on stars on the UFA market.

We can be as competitive as any team on the UFA market if we have cap space.

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01-20-2013, 04:55 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Well, I use Plekanec as an example because I think he's the only vet that could give us a first rounder or high end prospect unless you include Gorges in this discussion. Maybe Cole, but it would be hard to justify trading Cole unless we immediately replace him.

The whole reason Gionta and Cole are expendable is because they are on the decline, and that's exactly the reason their value is limited. I actually think trading Gionta for a pick is a good idea, but we need to start using this pick and the cleared capspace from Gionta and the buyouts to bring in players who can contribute now.
Isn't it obvious that we should eventually use the cleared cap space? Why does this need to be explained?

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01-20-2013, 04:57 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Kopitar was a 10th overall, definitely a rebuild pick.
Does that make Kostitsyn a rebuild pick? What about Komisarek?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Actually there is a secret recipe. Sam Polloch understood it and others simply haven't seem to have caught on. Sometimes you take a step back to go forward by two. No you won't get a 1st overall as easily now as he did back then but the principles are still the same.
I love the Pollock stories, but that was a time when the draft first started, he was the first to realize the potential high picks but nowadays every GM knows that a top pick is worth a lot.

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What makes you think they won't develop properly anyway? Tons of superstars developed in losing environments. Hell PK Subban is developing just fine here and did so without Markov.
Some will some won't. The best of the best will likely develop anyway, guys like Collberg, Gallagher, Beaulieu, Tinordi are more likely to struggle. Why take the chance?

Subban still had Hamrlik, Gill, Spacek, Gorges. He wasn't thrust into the #1 role, he played second pairing until he earned the #1 spot

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01-20-2013, 04:57 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Nobody is saying not to trade any of our veterans, but having a fire sale and dumping every player over the age of 27 while getting nothing but draft picks back in return will do nothing but make the team unwatchable for the next 3 years.
Is anybody proposing we get rid of every player older than 27?

We should sell some, and replace half of those with UFA pickups, and half with rookies.

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01-20-2013, 04:57 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Isn't it obvious that we should eventually use the cleared cap space? Why does this need to be explained?
The problem is, no elite UFA is going to sign for a wretched basement dweller. The Rangers were a treadmill team when they traded Gomez, not a league joke like the Islanders and Oilers. The Wild were a borderline playoff team when they pulled off the Suter and Parise deals.

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01-20-2013, 04:58 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
If it was that easy, there would be tons of 1st rounders traded every deadline...

non that hard
What do you mean teams wouldn't be willing to give up their future for our leftovers?

Look at Toronto, a team notorious for dumping youth for vets! They acquired Luongo just recen....oh wait didn't happen.

I guess DA is the new chicken little on these boards.

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01-20-2013, 05:00 PM
  #161
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Alot of the Habs contracts are untradeable.

Some one may like a guy like Cole but two more years after this?

A number of Habs players have alot of hard miles on them too.

They are stuck with alot of these guys.

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Old
01-20-2013, 05:01 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Is anybody proposing we get rid of every player older than 27?

We should sell some, and replace half of those with UFA pickups, and half with rookies.
Did you not propose trading Plekanec, Markov, Cole and Gionta? Those are our vets worth a damn besides Gorges, if your only guys over 27 are guys like Moen, you are effectively turning us into the Islanders.

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01-20-2013, 05:02 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
The problem is, no elite UFA is going to sign for a wretched basement dweller. The Rangers were a treadmill team when they traded Gomez, not a league joke like the Islanders and Oilers. The Wild were a borderline playoff team when they pulled off the Suter and Parise deals.
Where was Boston when they signed Chara and Savard?
Where was Minnesota when they signed Suter and Parise?
Where was Philadelphia when they signed Briere?

There is a simple recipe to get the best players in the UFA market: offer the most money.

If we offer Corey Perry 63 million, 7 years to Corey Perry with maximum front-loading he's likely to pick that over 5 years and 35 million with Los Angeles.

Guys like Marian Hossa who take less money to play in Chicago are the exception.

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01-20-2013, 05:03 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Did you not propose trading Plekanec, Markov, Cole and Gionta? Those are our vets worth a damn besides Gorges, if your only guys over 27 are guys like Moen, you are effectively turning us into the Islanders.
No, I said we should be satisfied if we trade 3 of 9 vets that I listed.

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01-20-2013, 05:04 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
We trade those guys at minimal value instead of maximum value. That's the problem.

Counterexample: Jaroslav Halak, he was traded at maximum value.
No, the problem is that we trade them, period.

Sergei turned into a 40+ pts player on an ultra defensive team, Lapierre is good enough to be a regular on a contender, Latendresse scored 33 goals in a season (82 games)...

and after game 1 of the brand new regime, you can safely bet we're going to lose Y. Weber for nothing... (and I dont care if he doesnt become a top 4 D, every team need at least 6 D)

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01-20-2013, 05:05 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Where was Boston when they signed Chara and Savard?
Where was Minnesota when they signed Suter and Parise?
Where was Philadelphia when they signed Briere?

There is a simple recipe to get the best players in the UFA market: offer the most money.

If we offer Corey Perry 63 million, 7 years to Corey Perry with maximum front-loading he's likely to pick that over 5 years and 35 million with Los Angeles.

Guys like Marian Hossa who take less money to play in Chicago are the exception.
You truly are brilliant, you must be the reincarnation of Glen Sather.

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01-20-2013, 05:07 PM
  #167
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The way not to do it is the Leafs way, continually rushing the rebuild. Saying you don't rebuild in a big market like Toronto... Trading their picks and prospects. Going a full 7-year CBA and 2 lockouts since they last made the playoffs. The Leafs still look pathetic.

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Old
01-20-2013, 05:07 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Simply not true.

I also state we should maintain the core, leave our kids in Hamilton/Sarnia/Sweden for a comfortable amount of time, and clear cap space to focus on stars on the UFA market.

We can be as competitive as any team on the UFA market if we have cap space.
and who's going to play for the Habs during that time ?

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Old
01-20-2013, 05:10 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Where was Boston when they signed Chara and Savard?
Where was Minnesota when they signed Suter and Parise?
Where was Philadelphia when they signed Briere?

There is a simple recipe to get the best players in the UFA market: offer the most money.

If we offer Corey Perry 63 million, 7 years to Corey Perry with maximum front-loading he's likely to pick that over 5 years and 35 million with Los Angeles.

Guys like Marian Hossa who take less money to play in Chicago are the exception.
Suter and Parize > 200 MILLIONS
Briere > stated he chose Flyers over Habs cause he thought they were a better team and it gave him a better chance at winning.

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01-20-2013, 05:11 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
You truly are brilliant, you must be the reincarnation of Glen Sather.
If you don't like Perry, that's fine.

The point is that you need to have cap space to go after the big fish, regardless of who you think the big fish are.

Sather went after Gaborik and Richards for example.

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01-20-2013, 05:12 PM
  #171
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I love hf Boards season is one game old and there is more thread about tanking the season, trading everyone, that there is about rational hockey talk.

Take it easy guys well start talking about tanking when we are out of the playoffs picture, i still expect the habs to finish 7th but Pk has to sign fast.

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01-20-2013, 05:13 PM
  #172
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If you don't like Perry, that's fine.

The point is that you need to have cap space to go after the big fish, regardless of who you think the big fish are.

Sather went after Gaborik and Richards for example.
and chances are, his contract will be over and he'll still be without a cup...

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01-20-2013, 05:24 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If you don't like Perry, that's fine.

The point is that you need to have cap space to go after the big fish, regardless of who you think the big fish are.

Sather went after Gaborik and Richards for example.
He also went after Gomez and Redden

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01-20-2013, 05:27 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
He also went after Gomez and Redden
Yup, and after all these signing, chances are they'll all be gone before NYR wins another cup

(close to half his team is UFA after 13/14, including both goalies)

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01-20-2013, 05:28 PM
  #175
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He also went after Gomez and Redden
He also admitted his mistakes and fixed them. Found a sucker for Gomez, buried Redden.

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