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This team will not succeed as long as David Desharnais is a top 6 center.

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01-20-2013, 02:58 PM
  #101
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
For a kid without much offensive skills he certainly did well with AK and Moen last year.
He's still just 23. But they should at least give him a crack at the PP. This is usually where young players start making their mark, or at least, it helps them a lot.
He hasn't gotten that chance yet.
K but the context is of being a contender here. Yet, we're going to put a project on top 6. If the idea is to win, DD is the best option RIGHT NOW. If the idea is to try something new, so be it, I'd understand that. Just asking where Eller even comes up in a thread discussing us needing to beef up our top 6 center position.

That being said, Eller isn't that good. I hope I'm wrong but he doesn't look like a natural talent. He isn't as fluid as many dangles and he doesn't have the quick release of many snipers. Eller is a guy who can be good at everything(or rather, many things, not all) but I don't think he'll ever be great at anything.

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01-20-2013, 03:03 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
K but the context is of being a contender here. Yet, we're going to put a project on top 6. If the idea is to win, DD is the best option RIGHT NOW. If the idea is to try something new, so be it, I'd understand that. Just asking where Eller even comes up in a thread discussing us needing to beef up our top 6 center position.

That being said, Eller isn't that good. I hope I'm wrong but he doesn't look like a natural talent. He isn't as fluid as many dangles and he doesn't have the quick release of many snipers. Eller is a guy who can be good at everything(or rather, many things, not all) but I don't think he'll ever be great at anything.
I disagree, in many ways, I feel that DD is blocking Eller's development to some extent. He's already a very good player who can compete against others teams 2nd line, whereas DD should be exploiting other teams 3rd lines. JM actually used DD in a way that maximized his skillset. DD's point totals have somehow miscasted him as a number 1 center, he isn't.

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01-20-2013, 03:04 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I disagree, in many ways, I feel that DD is blocking Eller's development to some extent. He's already a very good player who can compete against others teams 2nd line, whereas DD should be exploiting other teams 3rd lines. JM actually used DD in a way that maximized his skillset. DD's point totals have somehow miscasted him as a number 1 center, he isn't.
If anything, Plekanec is the one hindering Eller's developpement.

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01-20-2013, 03:05 PM
  #104
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Bare with me here.

I realize a lot of people are DD fans, and with just cause, I like the man and the player as well. However, I strongly feel that this team will not succeed as long as he is a top 6 center.

A center should be a force on the ice, someone who is strong on the dot, strong on the puck, strong on both ends of the ice on top of the obvious need for on-ice vision. Sure, Desharnais has very slick hands and great vision, but his presence is not going to intimidate anyone, ever. This is not a knock on the man, he is a tough little dude and could likely beat the crap out of me, but against other top NHL centers...it's almost laughable.

If Plekanec were a different type of player we might be able to get away with having DD as a top 6 center, but having those 2 be our 1-2 is a recipe for failure and maintenance of our 'soft' identity. A center often defines his line as the puck literally starts on their sticks (after whistles)

Plekanec-Eller should be solidified as our top 2. Sure, the Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole combo looked very good last year, but they got soft minutes and only looked good in comparison to the rest of the team which looked like trash. That same trio looked horrible last night and is IMO bound for disaster. Keep Desharnais with MaxPac, but put him on the wing and stick Eller in the middle.

Cole-Plekanec-Gionta
MaxPac-Eller-Desharnais

something of that sort should be our top 6.

Discuss/debate David Desharnais as a top 6 center in this thread.


This might not be worth it's own thread but I did not know where else to vent about this, mods feel free to merge with something...or not
Marcel Dionne.

/end thread

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Old
01-20-2013, 03:09 PM
  #105
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When you have Gionta and Cole (two outdated vets) in your top 6 and they're part of your primary offensive weapons... you're bound to fail miserably... At their age, they should have supporting roles in a championship team as 3rd liners.... here in Montreal they are top 6 forwards hahahaha !!

On top of that, you have a midget like Desharnais centering them.... this is another fail situation. If the habs wants to get out of that bottom tier in this league, Cole, Gionta and Desharnais should not be part of their primary offensive weapons.

As long as they will be, this team will go no where.
The Ducks get more mileage out of Koivu (not to mention Selanne) than they do out of players who are supposedly in their prime. I don't think I have to tell members of this board that the Habs have a history of getting rid of players too soon.

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Old
01-20-2013, 03:18 PM
  #106
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I really don't understand how people expect Eller to put up 50 points on the third line in defensive minutes. Eller might not ever reach his upside but 3rd Center at best, really?

Please, can someone name to me all these 3rd line centers putting up more points than Eller? Jordan Staal on the Penguins, who else?

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01-20-2013, 03:35 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
If anything, Plekanec is the one hindering Eller's developpement.
Eller's own lack of hockey sense is hindering is development.

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01-20-2013, 03:39 PM
  #108
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Eller's own lack of hockey sense is hindering is development.
Once again, please name all these guys putting up 50 points on the third line.

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01-20-2013, 03:49 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
K but the context is of being a contender here. Yet, we're going to put a project on top 6. If the idea is to win, DD is the best option RIGHT NOW. If the idea is to try something new, so be it, I'd understand that. Just asking where Eller even comes up in a thread discussing us needing to beef up our top 6 center position.

That being said, Eller isn't that good. I hope I'm wrong but he doesn't look like a natural talent. He isn't as fluid as many dangles and he doesn't have the quick release of many snipers. Eller is a guy who can be good at everything(or rather, many things, not all) but I don't think he'll ever be great at anything.
Well that's easy to say. That's all we know. So, very easy to say right now, our best bet is Plek and DD.
Until we actually put the odds on Eller's side, that likely won't change. It's like when we put Latendresse on the bottom lines and then wondered why he didn't produce much.
Just take Plekenac as an example. Last year, we put Darche and Bourque on his wings. Not surprisingly, that line looked like a 3rd line, production for Plek lowered. So, should we be surprised that Eller only looks like a 3rd line when he's only been used as one??

As for Eller just being a player good at everything, the same can be said about Plekanec. Doesn't mean you can't be a top 6 player.

He needs to more offensive duties before being labeled as a 3rd liner.

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01-20-2013, 04:00 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well that's easy to say. That's all we know. So, very easy to say right now, our best bet is Plek and DD.
Until we actually put the odds on Eller's side, that likely won't change. It's like when we put Latendresse on the bottom lines and then wondered why he didn't produce much.
Just take Plekenac as an example. Last year, we put Darche and Bourque on his wings. Not surprisingly, that line looked like a 3rd line, production for Plek lowered. So, should we be surprised that Eller only looks like a 3rd line when he's only been used as one??

As for Eller just being a player good at everything, the same can be said about Plekanec. Doesn't mean you can't be a top 6 player.

He needs to more offensive duties before being labeled as a 3rd liner.
I have no issue making lines with Bourque on DD's wing with one of Cole/Max and the other of Cole/Mas on Eller's wing.

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01-20-2013, 04:02 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Once again, please name all these guys putting up 50 points on the third line.
Jordan Staal that's about it

IMO we should trade Plekanec and promote Eller to the second line until galchenyuk can command that line.

Plekanec should be traded for a winger like Bobby Ryan ( in a best case scenario) or we could look at players like Sharp, Ladd, Kane etc.

We could package something good along with Plekanec 2nd pick plus good prospect maybe Leblanc or Ellis.

Imagine if we could get Bobby Ryan from the ducks

the lines would look like this

Paciorretty Desharnais Ryan
Cole Eller Gionta-Galchenyuk
Bourque Leblanc Armstrong-Moen-Galchenyuk
Prust White Armstrong-moen

Moen or Armstrong as the 13th forward.


Those lines would be pretty good We'd have 3 potential 30 goals scorer in Ryan, Paciorretty, Cole. Eller would have to prove he can play on top lines.

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01-20-2013, 04:06 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Once again, please name all these guys putting up 50 points on the third line.
He made 28 though. 50 is double.

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01-20-2013, 04:12 PM
  #113
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I could see there's a decent argument to make that you can't succed as long as David Desharnais is the number 1 Center... But that you can't succeed with him as a Top-6 center. Seriously?

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01-20-2013, 04:15 PM
  #114
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I like DD, but I never realized how soft he was until yesterday's game...the guy was getting tossed around like a rag doll and that was only against the leafs. I'd hate to see him getting a lot of TOI in a real physical game against the Flyers or the Bruins

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01-20-2013, 04:32 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Desharnais and Plekanec need to be gone if we hope to be a cup contender at some point. Galchenyuk will replace one of them, we need another top two center. If we tank good enought this year we might have the opportunity to have that second one.
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I disagree, in many ways, I feel that DD is blocking Eller's development to some extent. He's already a very good player who can compete against others teams 2nd line, whereas DD should be exploiting other teams 3rd lines. JM actually used DD in a way that maximized his skillset. DD's point totals have somehow miscasted him as a number 1 center, he isn't.
Are 3rd lines not generally the "#1 defensive line." I keep hearing that DD should exploit #3 lines when in reality he would probably do better against top-2 lines because it will leave more space open for him in the defensive zone.

Eller compete against top-6 lines cause he's a great defensive centre.

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01-20-2013, 04:33 PM
  #116
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The problem with DD is his size, not his skill. He easily gets bumped off the puck when he's up against bigger defensemen. With the quality of our D, we can't give up possession like that. Our D isn't built to win battles back on the counter-attack. We're not Boston. At center, size problems are magnified. So the issue isn't just DD but we can't change six D as easily as we can shift one small top line center.

When we have Subban, Emelin, Tinordi, Beaulieu (all rugged physical defensemen) that's another story. But we're not there yet. We'll suffer until that happens.

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01-20-2013, 04:38 PM
  #117
Kjell Dahlin
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I like DD, but I never realized how soft he was until yesterday's game...the guy was getting tossed around like a rag doll and that was only against the leafs. I'd hate to see him getting a lot of TOI in a real physical game against the Flyers or the Bruins
Desharnais had 5 points in 6 games played against the Bruins last season with a plus/minus of +4. He had 4 points in 4 games played vs the Flyers with a plus/minus of +2.

Obviously, the guy can’t play against such opponents; he simply can’t handle it.

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01-20-2013, 04:40 PM
  #118
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Not that I'm against trading veterans to rebuild IF WE GET A GOOD RETURN FOR THEM, because we're not even close of having a good team, but Plekanec and Desharnais won't be magically replaced if we trade them. Not short term, but not in the long run either. Trading Cole and Gionta would certainly make sense, but Plekanec and Desharnais aren't old. And in five years we will need them if we're a good enough team to be contenders for the cup.
They are too small and in Plekanec' case he is soft... You never win with a guy like that

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01-20-2013, 04:40 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I like DD, but I never realized how soft he was until yesterday's game...the guy was getting tossed around like a rag doll and that was only against the leafs. I'd hate to see him getting a lot of TOI in a real physical game against the Flyers or the Bruins
i watched both philly and Boston at home yesterday -- new 4th line or not...and DD + plekanecs + our cupcakes on D are going to get killed on the road - especially vs physical teams

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01-20-2013, 04:41 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Desharnais had 5 points in 6 games played against the Bruins last season with a plus/minus of +4. He had 4 points in 4 games played vs the Flyers with a plus/minus of +2.

Obviously, the guy can’t play against such opponents; he simply can’t handle it.
People will make up stuff to support their point. Desharnais isn't the problem here. It's lack of secondary scoring. Seemed like DD was trying too much cause his linemates couldn't even soate with the puck. I expect a much better game out of everyone Tuesday.

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01-20-2013, 04:42 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
They are too small and in Plekanec' case he is soft... You never win with a guy like that
Prove it.


And why "in Plekanec's case". Are you saying DD is a tough or some sort?

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01-20-2013, 04:44 PM
  #122
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People will make up stuff to support their point. Desharnais isn't the problem here. It's lack of secondary scoring. Seemed like DD was trying too much cause his linemates couldn't even soate with the puck. I expect a much better game out of everyone Tuesday.
I agree, DD was as nervous as any other Habs player yesterday. Still would prefer seeing DD centering the second line.

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01-20-2013, 04:45 PM
  #123
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I fully expect Plekanec to be gone by the beginning of the next season.
I think he has a NTC, so he would need to agree to it. At worst he finishes his contract and he is gone.

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01-20-2013, 04:45 PM
  #124
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People will make up stuff to support their point. Desharnais isn't the problem here. It's lack of secondary scoring. Seemed like DD was trying too much cause his linemates couldn't even soate with the puck. I expect a much better game out of everyone Tuesday.
No excuses. The team sucked last night and each player needs to be held accountable.

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01-20-2013, 04:45 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Prove it.


And why "in Plekanec's case". Are you saying DD is a tough or some sort?
He is not afraid to go in front of the net, and go in the corners contrary to Plekanec...

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