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P.K Subban Thread 4.0 - Still Unsigned Edition

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Old
01-20-2013, 06:18 PM
  #326
haburger
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you nailed it whitesnake.this makes absolutely no sense at all.

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01-20-2013, 06:19 PM
  #327
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wait til we lose a few more.mb gonna feel heat like he has never known.

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Old
01-20-2013, 06:26 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I get the bridge contract, it makes sense to me. But that contract should be better than 3 mil. 4.5 is about right maybe 5 for two years. Subban should have no problem with that. If he produces, then show him the vault in a couple of years.
I don't. A bridge should exist solely for guys you have some real doubts about him. And I don't for PK. It can apply to 90% of the players if you want. But you have to keep a 10% for the exceptionals. Yes, I know, PK isn't an EXCEPTIONAL, like the great superstars of the league but guess what....he is for us. No PK and unless a major trade comes along, the next d-man to come in our top 6 is Tinordi. He does serve a purpose...but clearly isn't a PK. The closest to PK you ahve is Beaulieu and some have doubts if he'll ever be a NHL'er. I don't, but that's another story. The rest, MAY be solid #4-5-6...clearly not what PK is all about. So for us, he has to be an exception.

What will happen if Galchenyuk goes back to Sarnia, starts next year and happen to have 60-70-80 points per year with 35 goals in his 3rd season? Do we still to apply this stupid bridge for the sake of applying it?

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Old
01-20-2013, 06:39 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I get the bridge contract, it makes sense to me. But that contract should be better than 3 mil. 4.5 is about right maybe 5 for two years. Subban should have no problem with that. If he produces, then show him the vault in a couple of years.
The bridge contract, imo, is for players that haven't proven anything other than great potential, or less. That's what Price had showed, MaxPac had showed good potential.
PK still hasn't reach his full potential, might never will, but he already has proven himself capable of handling top assignments. He is, without any question, among the better young Dmen of this league.

So, what would be the purpose of this bridge contract? Get him cheap for 2 more years, let him improve (no reason to think he'll stop his progression) and then sign him to a probably twice the amount?
Doesn't really make much sense. I get it for guys that haven't shown as much, but not for this case.

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Old
01-20-2013, 06:42 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I don't. A bridge should exist solely for guys you have some real doubts about him. And I don't for PK. It can apply to 90% of the players if you want. But you have to keep a 10% for the exceptionals. Yes, I know, PK isn't an EXCEPTIONAL, like the great superstars of the league but guess what....he is for us. No PK and unless a major trade comes along, the next d-man to come in our top 6 is Tinordi. He does serve a purpose...but clearly isn't a PK. The closest to PK you ahve is Beaulieu and some have doubts if he'll ever be a NHL'er. I don't, but that's another story. The rest, MAY be solid #4-5-6...clearly not what PK is all about. So for us, he has to be an exception.

What will happen if Galchenyuk goes back to Sarnia, starts next year and happen to have 60-70-80 points per year with 35 goals in his 3rd season? Do we still to apply this stupid bridge for the sake of applying it?
Yeah.

I'd try to do a bridge contract with him. It's beneficial to the team and gives you a bit longer to have that players for a little bit less. That's the advantage of having RFAs on your roster. I really don't have a problem with that. I'd be surprised if Subban had a huge problem with it.

But if you're going to do it, you'd better provide some decent numbers. 3 mil for 2 years is lowballing and the only thing that happens here is that you upset the player and poison the well.

I get what you're saying and maybe I'd bend if push came to shove but I'd try for a bridge contract with him why not? The problem (as I see it based on the numbers from the Hot Stove) is that we lowballed the guy to the extent that he's now insulted. That's the real problme and if that's the case, now things get messy.

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01-20-2013, 06:46 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
The bridge contract, imo, is for players that haven't proven anything other than great potential, or less. That's what Price had showed, MaxPac had showed good potential.
PK still hasn't reach his full potential, might never will, but he already has proven himself capable of handling top assignments. He is, without any question, among the better young Dmen of this league.

So, what would be the purpose of this bridge contract? Get him cheap for 2 more years, let him improve (no reason to think he'll stop his progression) and then sign him to a probably twice the amount?Doesn't really make much sense. I get it for guys that haven't shown as much, but not for this case.
Actually... yeah. That is the point.

See how he progresses over two years, give him some decent dollars and then when he's still an RFA you give him a long term contract with some big dollars attached. Makes sense to me.

What's wrong with that?

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01-20-2013, 06:46 PM
  #332
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They didn't even have 2 year bridge contracts in Chicago, which just makes this all the more odd.

Keith got 4 years before his current big deal.

Kane, Toews and Bolland got 5 years.

Seabrook was the closest to a 2 year bridge deal with 3 years.

Could this be a Molson philosophy above all?

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:00 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
They didn't even have 2 year bridge contracts in Chicago, which just makes this all the more odd.

Keith got 4 years before his current big deal.

Kane, Toews and Bolland got 5 years.

Seabrook was the closest to a 2 year bridge deal with 3 years.

Could this be a Molson philosophy above all?
It IS Molson's philosophy kicking in.
Fournier said it.

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:03 PM
  #334
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It IS Molson's philosophy kicking in.
Fournier said it.
If that is true then Molson needs to butt out and stop interfering.

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:10 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I don't. A bridge should exist solely for guys you have some real doubts about him. And I don't for PK. It can apply to 90% of the players if you want. But you have to keep a 10% for the exceptionals. Yes, I know, PK isn't an EXCEPTIONAL, like the great superstars of the league but guess what....he is for us. No PK and unless a major trade comes along, the next d-man to come in our top 6 is Tinordi. He does serve a purpose...but clearly isn't a PK. The closest to PK you ahve is Beaulieu and some have doubts if he'll ever be a NHL'er. I don't, but that's another story. The rest, MAY be solid #4-5-6...clearly not what PK is all about. So for us, he has to be an exception.

What will happen if Galchenyuk goes back to Sarnia, starts next year and happen to have 60-70-80 points per year with 35 goals in his 3rd season? Do we still to apply this stupid bridge for the sake of applying it?
The bridge applies to everyone, that is what is great about it. Remember when people were calling Komisareck the next habs captain? Good thing we didn't **** our pants and give him the moon. Subban needs more evaluating no matter how many posters of him you have on your ceiling.

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:11 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Actually... yeah. That is the point.

See how he progresses over two years, give him some decent dollars and then when he's still an RFA you give him a long term contract with some big dollars attached. Makes sense to me.

What's wrong with that?
There is nothing wrong with that, when the player hasn't proven squat. But when a player has proven some things and is already playing great, and doesn't want a short term deal, then there's nothing wrong with giving him the bigger bucks now (although cheaper than what it would cost you in 2years). Especially if the other option is keeping him at home.

But as I said yesterday after the hot stove, I'm starting to think PK isn't necessarily against signing a 2year deal. If what they said was true, then it's more about the dollars.

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:12 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
The bridge applies to everyone, that is what is great about it. Remember when people were calling Komisareck the next habs captain? Good thing we didn't **** our pants and give him the moon. Subban needs more evaluating no matter how many posters of him you have on your ceiling.
Ahahaha comparing Subban to Komisarek.

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:12 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
If that is true then Molson needs to butt out and stop interfering.
I disagree with you.

I cannot believe how quickly people are forgetting the disaster contracts signed by the previous two GMs. And those horrible contracts have hamstrung this franchise.

Sure, we are getting rid of Gomez through a buyout but look at the waste of money, this year included. Markov should not have gotten the money that he did.

And here we are.......now that we are finally getting rid of a brutal contract people are demanding another.

Gomez had upside, right? So did Markov and his bad knee. And now a lot of fans want to throw a lot of money on a good DMan. Not great, good.

Bergevin is not Gainey or Gauthier. And I hope that he is not pressured into becoming them either.

Popularity is not a requirement for getting a long term contract. Subban understands (or should) that he is not a superstar. Yet he and his agent have decided to play hardball.

My sentiment remains the same. He is putting himself above the Team. Time to be shipped out. There are a lot of GOOD DMen that we can trade him for.

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:13 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There is nothing wrong with that, when the player hasn't proven squat. But when a player has proven some things and is already playing great, and doesn't want a short term deal, then there's nothing wrong with giving him the bigger bucks now (although cheaper than what it would cost you in 2years). Especially if the other option is keeping him at home.

But as I said yesterday after the hot stove, I'm starting to think PK isn't necessarily against signing a 2year deal. If what they said was true, then it's more about the dollars.
I really don't see what the big deal about a 2 year contract is. If it's the end of the world for PK, fine make it a three year deal or something like that but I don't see the big problem here.

Up the money to something reasonable and get him signed for 2 or 3 years and get it over with.

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:15 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
They didn't even have 2 year bridge contracts in Chicago, which just makes this all the more odd.

Keith got 4 years before his current big deal.

Kane, Toews and Bolland got 5 years.

Seabrook was the closest to a 2 year bridge deal with 3 years.

Could this be a Molson philosophy above all?
Doesn't make sense. Molson would lock out his most marketable player?..and risk worsening the relationship with him??
It's not because it didn't happen in Chicago that it's not Bergevin's thinking.

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:16 PM
  #341
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I disagree with you.

I cannot believe how quickly people are forgetting the disaster contracts signed by the previous two GMs. And those horrible contracts have hamstrung this franchise.

Sure, we are getting rid of Gomez through a buyout but look at the waste of money, this year included. Markov should not have gotten the money that he did.

And here we are.......now that we are finally getting rid of a brutal contract people are demanding another.

Gomez had upside, right? So did Markov and his bad knee. And now a lot of fans want to throw a lot of money on a good DMan. Not great, good.

Bergevin is not Gainey or Gauthier. And I hope that he is not pressured into becoming them either.

Popularity is not a requirement for getting a long term contract. Subban understands (or should) that he is not a superstar. Yet he and his agent have decided to play hardball.

My sentiment remains the same. He is putting himself above the Team. Time to be shipped out. There are a lot of GOOD DMen that we can trade him for.
The mantras need to stop.

"Nobody is above the team!"

Guess what? The habs suck! Subban is a major component of the team and the fans want to see him. The contracts that you mention were all signed by the old regime.

And then you just want to get rid of Subban? Ahahahah! Get off your pedestal.

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01-20-2013, 07:21 PM
  #342
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Found this pic....Subban was at the Lakers/Raptors game...lets hope the Montreal media doesnt find out

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01-20-2013, 07:21 PM
  #343
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I would be glad if we could trade him once he's signed to a decent contract.

Of course trading him for low value would be unnacceptable , but if I could grab a player of Subban's potential and caliber and trade him I would be all for it.I don't really like his personality and team chemistry is very important , anybody who played hockey knows that.An annoying jerk can go a long way into screwing the team's spirit , which in turn could go a long way into making a team successful or barely average and soulless.

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01-20-2013, 07:22 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
The bridge applies to everyone, that is what is great about it. Remember when people were calling Komisareck the next habs captain? Good thing we didn't **** our pants and give him the moon. Subban needs more evaluating no matter how many posters of him you have on your ceiling.
You may have guidelines, but you have to sometimes adjust given the circumstances. Habs had a hard and fast rule that they don't negotiate with players on their last year of their contracts, that didn't serve to well did it? That policy was the root cause of the reboot that go us Gomez, Cammy and Gionta.

The better GM's treat every situation separately, adjust and take the best decision for the team. MB tried- it hasn't and won't work, time for plan B and more importantly get him in the lineup asap.

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01-20-2013, 07:25 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
The mantras need to stop.

"Nobody is above the team!"

Guess what? The habs suck! Subban is a major component of the team and the fans want to see him. The contracts that you mention were all signed by the old regime.

And then you just want to get rid of Subban? Ahahahah! Get off your pedestal.
Mantra? You call it a mantra. I call it reality.

Hockey is a team sport. For a team to win, there must be cohesion and unity as a team. If there is not, there is failure.

PK's fiasco is not happening in a vacuum. All of the Habs players are very aware of it. Game 1 was last night and where was PK? Was PK concerned about his teammates? Or was he more concerned about Himself.

The team dynamic with PK involved has been damaged. You can dismiss it all you want but it plays a very large role in how a team performs.

Chemistry, trust, respect. It is an intangible not seen on video game consoles. But it is a very important dynamic for success. PK just shot it to hell last night. Time to move on in a different direction.

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:25 PM
  #346
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Found this pic....Subban was at the Lakers/Raptors game...lets hope the Montreal media doesnt find out
Whos's the guy on the right?

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01-20-2013, 07:27 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by HookeyPlayer View Post
Found this pic....Subban was at the Lakers/Raptors game...lets hope the Montreal media doesnt find out
Ugh... That's kinda lame to be honest.

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Whos's the guy on the right?
Robert Herjavec.

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01-20-2013, 07:27 PM
  #348
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Whos's the guy on the right?
Robert Herjavec. Owns a reseller security IT company. He used to be on Dragon's Den and is now on NBC's Shark Tank.

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:27 PM
  #349
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I really don't see what the big deal about a 2 year contract is. If it's the end of the world for PK, fine make it a three year deal or something like that but I don't see the big problem here.

Up the money to something reasonable and get him signed for 2 or 3 years and get it over with.
Pretty sure this would have been a done deal if either side thought like you.
I agree, nothing wrong with a shorter deal. I don't care what he does so long that he plays. And I don't think it's PK's side playing hardball. I mean, I know your stand on Meehan, but he had no problem agreeing to 2years for Del Zotto, so not sure why he would now. I know they're different players, but if he was so against the bridge deals, he could have held out longer in NYR.
I think it's Bergevin trying to squeeze PK's pockets. Getting a short term deal, and paying little. Otherwise, why would they be so far apart? I've never heard of players holding out to the point where they don't sign just because the length of the deal isn't as long as they wish. It's always about dollars, and it all makes sense if what they said on the Hot Stove is true.

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Old
01-20-2013, 07:29 PM
  #350
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Whos's the guy on the right?
Someone worth more than everyone on the board combined (he's a guy from Dragon's Den)

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