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Ellis should start Tuesday.

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01-20-2013, 12:32 PM
  #26
Lazyking
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One game does not end a season, even a week doesn't. You go with Cam Ward because he's a proven better goalie then Dan Ellis. If he still is blowing chunks two weeks from now then we'll have to go to Ellis anyway.

Also remember, given the tight scheduale, it's very unlikely that Ward plays 40 + games this year even if he's great.

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01-20-2013, 12:35 PM
  #27
Clark Gillies
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Not that it really matters for this discussion, but Cam started the year as the starter. Gerber didn't actually become the starter until that sweet Ottawa game he had (forget if it was the one in October or November).


Do you want Cam to be the starter this year? Or do you want it to be a competition going with the hot hand? Your last several posts have contradicted each other in that regard...
I have not contradicted myself in the posts. Cam is the starter. But he needs to understand that his minutes can and will be jeopardy if he plays like crap and it is possible that he could lose that "starter" status. That is different than going with the "hot hand" - I already stated if he did't start he should start against Buffalo regardless. Tampa is the wrong team to get his confidence back against and work the rust off.

Cam did not start the year as the starter - Ther was never, ever any doubt that Gerber was brought in to be the 1. Cam was a rookie.
Gerber was the starter, He started the opener on the road, started 75% of the games.

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01-20-2013, 12:43 PM
  #28
Anton Dubinchuk
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Originally Posted by Clark Gillies View Post
I have not contradicted myself in the posts. Cam is the starter. But he needs to understand that his minutes can and will be jeopardy if he plays like crap and it is possible that he could lose that "starter" status. That is different than going with the "hot hand" - I already stated if he did't start he should start against Buffalo regardless. Tampa is the wrong team to get his confidence back against and work the rust off.

Cam did not start the year as the starter - Ther was never, ever any doubt that Gerber was brought in to be the 1. Cam was a rookie.
Gerber was the starter, He started the opener on the road, started 75% of the games.
OK, fair enough, sorry for disagreeing.

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01-20-2013, 12:57 PM
  #29
halleJOKEL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Not that it really matters for this discussion, but Cam started the year as the starter. Gerber didn't actually become the starter until that sweet Ottawa game he had (forget if it was the one in October or November).


Do you want Cam to be the starter this year? Or do you want it to be a competition going with the hot hand? Your last several posts have contradicted each other in that regard...
This is false, for the record. Gerber was the starter that year until he started falling apart down the stretch when he was sick. Ward only played in the Penguins game (2nd of the season) because Gerber pulled his hamstring in the 3rd period. I was there.

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01-20-2013, 01:00 PM
  #30
Anton Dubinchuk
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Originally Posted by dins View Post
This is false, for the record. Gerber was the starter that year until he started falling apart down the stretch when he was sick. Ward only played in the Penguins game (2nd of the season) because Gerber pulled his hamstring in the 3rd period. I was there.
You are correct. I remembered incorrectly. I remembered that sweet Ottawa game where he RE-won the starting battle and assumed that was the first time he was the starter.

Still, comparing Ward's hold on the starting job to Gerber's is a bit of a stretch...

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01-20-2013, 01:02 PM
  #31
Anton Dubinchuk
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This board is almost painful to read at this point. What the **** happened over the lockout?
This I can agree with.

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01-20-2013, 01:03 PM
  #32
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Dan Ellis isn't a rookie. Nor was he brought in to push Ward. He was brought in to backup and take some back to back's.

If Ellis wins the job, the Canes are in alot of trouble.

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01-20-2013, 01:09 PM
  #33
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Just remember Kirk's statement of intention when he signed up "I want everyone to be accountable for what they do." Hopefully he lives up to that philosophy and doesn't add little "except for if you're Cam Ward, Eric Staal, or Jordan Staal" to the end of that

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01-20-2013, 01:25 PM
  #34
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A rusty first game for everyone. You don't change starters after one game. Cam needs to know that he is the starter and that he has the support of his coach and team.

Cam should start again!
Jose Theodore didn't look very rusty.

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01-20-2013, 02:14 PM
  #35
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by Clark Gillies View Post
If that really mind - F's him then he does not have the mental fortitude to be an NHL goalie.

Ward obviously has the mental ability to be a star at this level. But like any other human being, he's going to show some strain if he's constantly being yanked and re-inserted. The hope after a bad game is that he shakes it off and brings his A-game next time. He can't do that if Muller reinforces his badness by refusing him the next start. If Ellis folds and Ward comes back in as the "I didn't want to play you but we had no choice" option, how can that not mess with his head?

Goaltending is a confidence game. It isn't like the military where you punish a guy until he "gets it". There's enough pressure on Cam behind that god-awful defense as it is. Doubling down on that pressure is a good way to turn him into the next Bryzgalov.

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It is not humiliation -

Of course it is. Putting the backup in for the home opener is making a headline story out of things, which sends a different message than what I think you have in mind.

Putting Ellis in after game 3 or 4? Ok, do what you need to do. At that point your hand has been forced. But after game 1? I'm sorry, that's a misguided idea.

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01-20-2013, 03:06 PM
  #36
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If Cam is still suffering from the flu he has no business starting. Otherwise we need to ride him as often as possible.

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01-20-2013, 04:53 PM
  #37
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y2kcanucks is the OP in disguise.

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01-20-2013, 04:58 PM
  #38
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Cam needs to understand that playing like crap will cost him his job. Because

A) Cam thinks he can give up 4 goals a period and remain the starter all season.
B) Cam is not really trying that hard to stop the puck, and will only do so if his job is threatened.

Because of the unbreakable logic of A and B, I have to side with Mr. Gillies on this one.

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01-20-2013, 05:55 PM
  #39
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His wife just had their second child. I'm sure he hasn't been getting a lot of sleep and he just had the flu.
These guys don't stay up all night with crying babies. They have grandparents and nannies for that. Having children is a weak excuse for millionaires. I don't buy it.

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01-20-2013, 05:55 PM
  #40
Anton Dubinchuk
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Originally Posted by wallym View Post
Cam needs to understand that playing like crap will cost him his job. Because

A) Cam thinks he can give up 4 goals a period and remain the starter all season.
B) Cam is not really trying that hard to stop the puck, and will only do so if his job is threatened.

Because of the unbreakable logic of A and B, I have to side with Mr. Gillies on this one.
Cam's sample size of "giving up 4 goals a period" is one period. You can cherry pick the first three minutes of the second period last night and say that Dan Ellis gives up a goal every 3 minutes, too.

I think I need to take a break from this conversation, I'm getting a headache. I'm mystified that this is a conversation, even more so that 1 out of every 3 people seem to be AGREEING with it...

Regarding "B," I've never heard of a goaltender with effort issues, have you? Didn't realize we had lazy Russian goaltender in disguise Cam Wardov on our hands...

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01-20-2013, 06:49 PM
  #41
wallym
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Cam's sample size of "giving up 4 goals a period" is one period. You can cherry pick the first three minutes of the second period last night and say that Dan Ellis gives up a goal every 3 minutes, too.

I think I need to take a break from this conversation, I'm getting a headache. I'm mystified that this is a conversation, even more so that 1 out of every 3 people seem to be AGREEING with it...

Regarding "B," I've never heard of a goaltender with effort issues, have you? Didn't realize we had lazy Russian goaltender in disguise Cam Wardov on our hands...
Curses. You seem to have in fact broken my ironclad logic. Well-played sir. Back to the drawing board for me.

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01-20-2013, 06:55 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Regarding "B," I've never heard of a goaltender with effort issues, have you? Didn't realize we had lazy Russian goaltender in disguise Cam Wardov on our hands...
Goaltender effort problems tend to manifest as bad goals and inconsistency. Having played for a decade or so (and wishing I was still playing), the biggest difference from one night to the next was how mentally into the game I was.

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01-20-2013, 06:56 PM
  #43
Zombie Mike Murphy
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Ride the heat. Ellis was pretty lights out. Even the one that got in was a freak deflection.

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01-20-2013, 07:01 PM
  #44
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Ellis should be the starter. Ward has clearly lost it--if he ever had it. He's only been above average in sv% in two seasons and he'll probably be bottom 5 this year. Should have traded Ward for a defenseman and signed Andersen.

Of course, people will laugh at this, but look at the career numbers:

Ellis - .908
Ward - .910

Ward is so overrated it's ridiculous

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01-20-2013, 07:03 PM
  #45
echlfreak
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Very thankful that the Hurricanes have a coach who understands actual hockey...unlike half the people who have posted on this thread.

Cam makes $6M+ per season. He is not likely to lose his job after one bad game where he had little chance on any of the goals!

Wake up folks!!!!!!!

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01-20-2013, 07:06 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Cam makes $6M+ per season. He is not likely to lose his job after one bad game where he had little chance on any of the goals!
Every keeper in the league would have had a chance on both Campbell goals. They were boomers, but that's why goaltenders push out of the net and play the angles (less net to shoot on). Cam was sitting back and got burned easily.


Last edited by loobarlow: 01-20-2013 at 07:11 PM.
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Old
01-20-2013, 07:08 PM
  #47
Anton Dubinchuk
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Originally Posted by Summer Ruutu View Post
Ellis should be the starter. Ward has clearly lost it--if he ever had it. He's only been above average in sv% in two seasons and he'll probably be bottom 5 this year. Should have traded Ward for a defenseman and signed Andersen.

Of course, people will laugh at this, but look at the career numbers:

Ellis - .908
Ward - .910

Ward is so overrated it's ridiculous
You're not looking at their Dominik Hasek-adjusted save %. Ellis has a .766 DHAS%, and Ward has a 1.237 DHAS%.

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01-20-2013, 07:09 PM
  #48
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To say that Ward had no chance on any of the goals last night is ridiculous. Goals 2, 3, and 4 were very stoppable. Just because it's a scoring chance doesn't mean it has to end up in the net. Ellis managed to stop two breakaways...if Ward was in net, he would have got deked out of jock as usual and we'd be hearing about he "had no chance." Ellis even managed to stop a few unscreened point shots...imagine that.

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01-20-2013, 08:23 PM
  #49
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by Troll Ward View Post
Ellis was pretty lights out.
He stopped 12 shots in 40 minutes.

Quote:
Even the one that got in was a freak deflection.
You can't be serious. Kovalev tried to bank it off him on one side, took the rebound to the other side and successfully banked it off him. What part of that involves a freak deflection?

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01-20-2013, 09:11 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
He stopped 12 shots in 40 minutes.
Thank you. Cam wasn't good in the first, but the team in front of him sucked beyond belief. They pulled it together for the second and third, and Ellis faced a hell of a lot less pressure than Cam did.

Cam's performance will be dealt with, but that will happen behind closed doors and in practice in a constructive way. Humiliating him and turning his performance and benching into a front page story would probably the absolute worst thing you could do.

For that matter, why on earth are people here under the impression that the only way a coach can hold a player accountable is by benching him? Sure, it happens, but it's a tremendously public and extreme course of action to take, and isn't something done lightly. And it would be an incredibly big overreaction to punish a guy for rust following the utter joke of a training camp teams had to deal with this year.

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