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Old
01-20-2013, 11:36 PM
  #26
p.l.f.
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what would the leafs want from the penguins
hmm......

dont see a match

kulemin is an important defense player for us and can score 20-30

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01-20-2013, 11:41 PM
  #27
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You guys are forgetting he scored 16 goals as a rookie in 78 games, 30 in 82, somewhere between the 2 lies his true output as a winger, plus he would be playing with Malkin, a true playmaker and Center. Big difference to what he has to work with here.

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01-20-2013, 11:43 PM
  #28
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I'm still waiting on Ben's answer, does he want to do a deal of Morrow or Pouliot and a pick(2nd but it reverts to a 1st if Pens go to the Cup final)

How much is the cup worth this year, no doubt Kulemin fills a hole on the wing for the Pens and there is the Malkin connection.
Sorry, had to take out the trash. Joe Morrow is basically untouchable to me and Pens fans, we think that we have something special there. Pouliot has great offensive upside as well but he's more expendable to me than other Pens fans, we already have Morrow and Letang for our offense. I probably wouldn't want to do Pouliot + 1st for Kulemim, but I would counter offer Pouliot + Tangradi for Kulemin + Komisarek.

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01-20-2013, 11:48 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BigBenSF View Post
Sorry, had to take out the trash. Joe Morrow is basically untouchable to me and Pens fans, we think that we have something special there. Pouliot has great offensive upside as well but he's more expendable to me than other Pens fans, we already have Morrow and Letang for our offense. I probably wouldn't want to do Pouliot + 1st for Kulemim, but I would counter offer Pouliot + Tangradi for Kulemin + Komisarek.
I would do Morrow for Kule straight up. Pens don't have to add in a pick with this offer.

Otherwise Pouliot and a 2nd rd pick, which reverts to a 1st if Pens win the conference final.

For Kule and Komi.

Interesting you want Komi, that intrigues me.

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01-20-2013, 11:54 PM
  #30
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I would do Morrow for Kule straight up. Pens don't have to add in a pick with this offer.

Otherwise Pouliot and a 2nd rd pick, which reverts to a 1st if Pens win the conference final.

For Kule and Komi.

Interesting you want Komi, that intrigues me.
We need a shutdown defenseman.

Either Pouliot + Tangradi for Kulemin + Komi or Pouliot + conditional 1st for Kulemin + Komi (TOR takes back some salary in this deal) would work for me.

So would you guys do one of:

Maatta + Tangradi/Jeffrey + Bortuzzo for Kulemin
Pouliot + Tangradi for Kulemin + Komi
Pouliot + conditional 1st for Kulemin + Komi (TOR toads partial cap)

The first deal I think most Pens fans would do, I'm not sure about the last two.

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01-21-2013, 12:07 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BigBenSF View Post
We need a shutdown defenseman.

Either Pouliot + Tangradi for Kulemin + Komi or Pouliot + conditional 1st for Kulemin + Komi (TOR takes back some salary in this deal) would work for me.

So would you guys do one of:

Maatta + Tangradi/Jeffrey + Bortuzzo for Kulemin
Pouliot + Tangradi for Kulemin + Komi
Pouliot + conditional 1st for Kulemin + Komi (TOR toads partial cap)

The first deal I think most Pens fans would do, I'm not sure about the last two.
I wouldn't have a problem taking back salary. For me the Pouliot and pick for Komi and Kule is the scenario Nonis will most likely be interested in, we are sort of on a rebuild and the pick is something he will most likely be more interested in. Also a prospect already drafted to add to our prospect pool.

Kulemin could flourish with Malkin, he is signed to a good cap hit, this is why I would think Nonis would not want to give him away. With Malkin Kule can easily score 25. Not sure he is a consistent 30 goal man, but he is a very good 2 way player when on his game. Physical too.

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01-21-2013, 12:18 AM
  #32
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kulemin is a defensive beast and has amazing chemistry with Grabovski... Considering MAF, Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang are all obviously untouchable there is nothing I would have interest in. Kulemin should be a solid 25-25 guy on the second line for us for a long time... and would probably be a 70 point player with Malkin. Suter + might be fair value for kulemin because his value is at its lowest... but honestly we have no use for more 3rd liners.

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01-21-2013, 12:19 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BigBenSF View Post
Gonna roll out four scenarios that might play out for Kulemin at the trade deadline:

1) Underwhelmes again and Toronto falls from playoff contention
2) Produces like he did in 2010 but Toronto falls out of playoff contention
3) Underwhelmes but Toronto is in playoff contention
4) Produces like he did in 2010 and Toronto is in playoff contention

What return would you want for Kulemin in all of these scenarios?

1) Sutter
2) Malkin
3) Letang
4) Crosby






but seriously, I'm not too sure atm, but id hate to see him go. one of our fastest skaters, and very defensively responsible

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Old
01-21-2013, 01:03 AM
  #34
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[QUOTE=BigBenSF;57991183]Pens fan (What? A Pens fan showing interest in Kulemin??) coming here in peace. Just wanted to know what your expectations are for Kulemin this year. Do you expect him to perform similar to the way that he did in the KHL, or do you think he might underperform like the way he did last season? He is one of the hardest players in the NHL to determine the value of, he is a previous 30 goal scorer but underwhelmed last season, then came back in the KHL and posted great numbers.

- My opinion on Kulemin: He's easily our best 2 way forward, he has a heavy shot but he doesn't always elect to use it. He's a strong skater but he's no breakaway king either, top speed isnt bad but could be a bit better as well. Kulemin lacks vision, but thats not to say hes a puck hog, he just lacks creativity out there. I really believe Kulemin and the entire line had a dream year in 10/11, I highly doubt he tops 30g/57 points again, thats not a knock against Kulemin though. I think Kulemin will get 20-25/45-50 points a year but he will also provide a lot of solid mins on the PK and be an effetive shut down player.

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01-21-2013, 01:41 AM
  #35
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Here's my take on Kulemin's offensive "inconsistencies". A large portion of his goals from his 30 goal season came from 5 feet away from the net. His biggest offensive asset is his great hand-eye for tips, and his uncanny ability to find rebounds in the feet of the defenders faster than the defenders or the goalie can. He does have a decent, and accurate wrister with a quick release, but he doesn't use it as often as he could/should.

His line was simply unable to get the puck to those areas with any regularity last season. As a PFW, he can win the battles along the boards, dish the puck off, and head to the net, but if the puck doesn't follow him, there's not much he can do.



If the Leafs were serious about trading him away, they'd need to put him opposite Kessel, and watch him shine (and increase his trade value).

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01-21-2013, 01:59 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBenSF View Post
Pens fan (What? A Pens fan showing interest in Kulemin??) coming here in peace. Just wanted to know what your expectations are for Kulemin this year. Do you expect him to perform similar to the way that he did in the KHL, or do you think he might underperform like the way he did last season? He is one of the hardest players in the NHL to determine the value of, he is a previous 30 goal scorer but underwhelmed last season, then came back in the KHL and posted great numbers.

If it was the deadline and Toronto was willing to trade Kulemin, I'd offer Olli Maatta + Eric Tangradi + Robert Bortuzzo.

Thanks guys.
Kule should end up somewhere between 7 and 30 g.

He's a good player. Even if he isn't scoring he is responsible.

PIT 1st

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01-21-2013, 02:57 AM
  #37
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He had a lot of off-ice issues, having lost a lot of people on that Lokomotiv Yaroslavl plain crash.

He also had the pressure/expectation of the year before him + the contract situation on his back as well.

I think all things considered - mentally he was bogged down last season.

The positive thing about Kulemin last year, was that even though he wasn't scoring goals, he was contributing in big ways. Very strong defensively, one of our strongest players on the wall, and always gave safe minutes.

He also found himself with a hat full of scoring chances every single night.

He plays hard, he plays smart, and plays for his teammates. My honest expectation for him is to see him return to better form. 20-25 goals from him, plus solid two-way play, is what I would expect to see. He's got the tools and the ability.

Think he will be helped by playing with Clarke and Grabovski again as well. Was all over the lineup last year which didn't help him.

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01-21-2013, 06:43 AM
  #38
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Wouldnt trade him now, too low of a value.

Sure we could trade him rather then risk him staying where he is and never increasing his value but With his defensive side. I'd rather have him around.

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01-21-2013, 06:51 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Kule should end up somewhere between 7 and 30 g.

He's a good player. Even if he isn't scoring he is responsible.

PIT 1st
So you'd basically trade him for a pick in the 25-30 range which would likely not amount to anything near Kulemin's best season. Excellent example on selling low.

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Old
01-21-2013, 07:05 AM
  #40
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I honestly think that plan crash his friends died in has been a major contributing factor in the result of his play, and its completely understandable.
I know people whose actual children have died, and although absolutely devastated, they were back in regular working form in a few months.

I would say that the majority of NHL players have had some sort of death in their family/friends in recen history.

Should there just be absolutely no accountability in the world anymore because sometimes people die?

If you're going to use those deaths as an excuse for an entire year, then where do you draw the line?
Are you going to say in 5 years 'Its understandable that kulemin is still terrible... After all, he lost some aquatences a few years back'.

When exactly is that just a lousy excuse?

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01-21-2013, 07:09 AM
  #41
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You are overpaying man. Last season was bad for him.
Value isn't based on just the previous season.

If Kulemin goes to the Pens, he plays with Malkin, scores 30 in his sleep and plays a good two-way game. You don't hand a team a player like that in exchange for the value of a guy who scores 7 goals.

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01-21-2013, 07:14 AM
  #42
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Eric Tangradi and Robert Bortuzzo? Yuk.

Leafs will want a top 6 prospect center or a young center with top 6 potential, no doubt about it. They have plenty of defensive depth and wing depth. Tangradi and Bortuzzo are redundant.

Maata is not a bad start but the other 2 are not needed for a guy like Kulemin.

If we are trading from a position of strength, we might as well acquire something we lack. Either a center or a goaltender.

Since the Penguins don't have center or goaltending depth to give away, I don't think we are great trading partners.

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01-21-2013, 07:30 AM
  #43
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Well I think regardless of how much the offence comes back, he's still the type of player that can play quality minutes. He's good defensively, is physical, and works extremely hard.

I don't at all think he'll be a regular 30 goal scorer, but probably more of a ~20-20 type of player, maybe a little bit higher like a 25-25 player.

Good player where at worst you have a very good two-way 3rd liner who can add depth scoring and can play in all situations.

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01-21-2013, 07:38 AM
  #44
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Kulemin would be going from a career high 29 assists challenged Center to a Hart Trophy, 78 career high assists Center if he was to become a Pens player.

You don't think he would score more than 16, 30, 7, goals than under his present Center?

Also let's look at this from a Pens angle, they want to be able to re-sign Malkin, Kulemin would give Geno a little more incentive.

It's either Morrow or Pouliot and a pick, no Maatta or Tangradi. Not foolish enough to fall for that one. If Pens want Kule, they have to give value back.

Personally I prefer Morrow and a pick, want the more near ready player.

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01-21-2013, 07:53 AM
  #45
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i think kulemin could find himself as the odd man out. not because of poor play but just because of numbers and him being attractive to other teams.

hypothetically we could move him and replace him internally by bringing frattin up.

lupul bozak kessel
jvr grabs mac
frattin kadri komorov
brown mclemment orr/steckle

obviously kulemin is much better then frattin at the moment but frattin costs a fraction of what kulemin does now and its only a matter of time until kulemin is going to want a decent raise. if the leafs are not in the playoff picture i think they should really consider moving him at the deadline.

i think any deal would need to start with a 1st rounder. anything less and its not worth moving him - especially to pittsburgh

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01-21-2013, 07:59 AM
  #46
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Adding Joe Morrow to Rielly, Finn, Percy, Nilsson, and Gardiner is intriguing.

Looking at next season, Leafs could have 2 to 3 rookies start on the D, though Percy will probably see some AHL, unless we go far in the Calder Cup and Percy logs time in the minors.

Morrow would give us some muscle back there, if Pens want Kulemin badly, I would insist on his name coming back.

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01-21-2013, 08:03 AM
  #47
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I believe he'll continue to be solid defensively and bounce back offensively. Doubt he'll ever be a consistent 30 goal scorer, but I think he'll be a 20-25 goal, 20-25 assist 2nd line winger, with good defensive contributions. Think Jere Lehtinen. You need those guys if you're going to contend, and at 26, he fits in with the current core of the Leafs. Selling low on him would be foolish.

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01-21-2013, 08:09 AM
  #48
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If were giving up Kulemin so he can play with Malkin, than his value lies somewhere between where he is now and what he will be worth to the Pens as a 65-70 pt player.
Id like to get back someone like Sutter, as id think Sutter would instantly be our second best Centre. In my mind Kulemin would be replaced by JVR on the second line without too much of a hit on the lines offensive output.

Lupul - Sutter - Kessel
JVR - Grabo - Mac
Fratin - Kadri - Komarov

My issue is that lineup doesnt really seem any better / that much better than the one we have now, as it really relies on Sutter improving his skating.

So maybe something like Sutter+Tangradi+ Harrington/Despres for Kulemin+ Connoly (we eat half of sallary) + Colborne we eat part of his sallary.

I would love to see a third line with both Biggs and Tangradi next year, that could be a really interesting line if you find a strong C.

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01-21-2013, 09:12 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
i think kulemin could find himself as the odd man out. not because of poor play but just because of numbers and him being attractive to other teams.
What makes Kulemin attractive to other teams, is what makes him attractive to us. He's great defensively, has a decent offensive skillset, is able to use his frame very effectively, not afraid of the tough areas, and he comes at a very reasonable cap hit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
hypothetically we could move him and replace him internally by bringing frattin up.

<snip>

obviously kulemin is much better then frattin at the moment but frattin costs a fraction of what kulemin does now and its only a matter of time until kulemin is going to want a decent raise. if the leafs are not in the playoff picture i think they should really consider moving him at the deadline.

i think any deal would need to start with a 1st rounder. anything less and its not worth moving him - especially to pittsburgh
Frattin plays a completely different role. He's more of a speedy sniper, who has quite a bit to learn about using his bulk, and the defensive game at the NHL level. Though not as gifted offensively, a guy like Biggs could be a more suitable replacement for Kulemin a few years down the road. Maybe even Komarov, but once again, not nearly as good offensively.

For the record, I don't think Kulemin is due for a decent raise. While it's too early to tell, I see him hovering around $3M for his next extension.

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01-21-2013, 09:16 AM
  #50
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I don't see Kulemin as a 20-30 goal guy... That's relying on him far too much offensively.

I see Kulemin as a 15-18 goal guy, very strong defensively, can play in most roles, works hard, never whines and shows some offensive flare now and again but not enough to justify a goal scoring role.

I think he's likely one of those tweener 2nd/3rd line guys. I liked his PK work a LOT on Saturday vs Montreal. TWICE he was behind our own goal line and chucked the puck down the ice.

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