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Old
01-20-2013, 09:56 PM
  #26
achdumeingute
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Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
I highly doubt any of those players, specifically the first 3, are going to put in a place where they could lose them for a bunch of draft picks or some mediocre players. Circumstances like Weber don't come up as often as people seem to think. If the Flyers want a good d-man their most likely going to have to pay up or draft one.
I agree, which is why i said first...it would be moronic for their current clubs to not lock them up right now...

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01-20-2013, 11:14 PM
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The Flyers need a defenseman that has speed and can make better outlets passes and help with the transition game. You can't have Grossmann and Foster on the ice at the same time. They are too slow. There were too many odd man rushes today. I think they missed Carle against both the Penguins and the Sabres.

I'd look to trade for someone like Jay Bouwmeester heading into the playoffs if the price were right. The Pens are extremely fast. You saw Grossmann get beat out on an icing 4 times this weekend that led to extended offensive zone pressure for the opponent and more defensive faceoffs for guys like Sean Couturier.

They need a PMD. They need it. It should have been addressed in the off season. They have the LTIR allowance space to acquire one, but I guess it depends on what assets you want to give up.

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01-20-2013, 11:17 PM
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This group desperately needs someone who can move the puck.

Robidas and Bouwmeester are 2 I wouldnt mind having.

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01-20-2013, 11:41 PM
  #29
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but I guess it depends on what assets you want to give up.
what are these assets you speak of.

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01-21-2013, 12:03 AM
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Let's keep a count of how many times our defense gets beat on an icing call. I've got at least 2 so far.

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01-21-2013, 12:25 AM
  #31
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Let's keep a count of how many times our defense gets beat on an icing call. I've got at least 2 so far.
Didn't we try the Rathje - Hatcher experiment already? Size is great on defense, but if your sacrificing speed for it, you aren't solving the issue.

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01-21-2013, 12:26 AM
  #32
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This group desperately needs someone who can move the puck.

Robidas and Bouwmeester are 2 I wouldnt mind having.
Too bad everbody crapped on Carle. He wasnt perfect and not my fav but I never understood the real hate. Like I said from the beginning ..this D is counterintuitive to Lavi's style....early but concerned.

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01-21-2013, 12:29 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Too bad everbody crapped on Carle. He wasnt perfect and not my fav but I never understood the real hate. Like I said from the beginning ..this D is counterintuitive to Lavi's style....early but concerned.
Can't sustain a forecheck and a full cycle game if your defense cannot keep up with the play. Usually we would see a lot of Timonen, Gus, and Carle pinching in the zone to keep the cycle continuing or sending the forwards back into the zone to forecheck.

I think you'll see a lot of exposure in the offensive zone, leading to a lot of odd-man rushes coming the other way if Lavy cannot make adjustments. You need to have a mobile D for his system and Foster, Grossmann, and Schenn are below average NHL skaters.

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01-21-2013, 12:29 AM
  #34
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Didn't we try the Rathje - Hatcher experiment already? Size is great on defense, but if your sacrificing speed for it, you aren't solving the issue.
Yup..when Clarke acquired those two it was pretty backwards bc the league had eliminated obstruction etc and yet Clarke stuck to his old school ways.

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01-21-2013, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Too bad everbody crapped on Carle. He wasnt perfect and not my fav but I never understood the real hate. Like I said from the beginning ..this D is counterintuitive to Lavi's style....early but concerned.
Would you really want Carle back at the contract he just got? No thanks, he cashed in and moved on. We could really use a PMD with something that resembled a shot for powerplay or our special teams are really going to disappoint.

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01-21-2013, 12:33 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
Can't sustain a forecheck and a full cycle game if your defense cannot keep up with the play. Usually we would see a lot of Timonen, Gus, and Carle pinching in the zone to keep the cycle continuing or sending the forwards back into the zone to forecheck.

I think you'll see a lot of exposure in the offensive zone, leading to a lot of odd-man rushes coming the other way if Lavy cannot make adjustments. You need to have a mobile D for his system and Foster, Grossmann, and Schenn are below average NHL skaters.
Too bad the thread I started about Lavi being pressured to change his system got locked bc it devolved into a Bryz debate. Everything I was concerned about with the D is rearing its ugly head...

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01-21-2013, 12:35 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by litflyersfan View Post
Would you really want Carle back at the contract he just got? No thanks, he cashed in and moved on. We could really use a PMD with something that resembled a shot for powerplay or our special teams are really going to disappoint.
Its not the best contract and an overpayment but sometimes you have to overpay when a player that is maligned in a fad way is actually an asset more than a liability

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01-21-2013, 12:41 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by litflyersfan View Post
Would you really want Carle back at the contract he just got? No thanks, he cashed in and moved on. We could really use a PMD with something that resembled a shot for powerplay or our special teams are really going to disappoint.
You, me, the Flyers, and 29 other NHL teams. I have no issue using Timonen and Coburn on unit 1 and 2, respectively, and dropping in a smart forward like Read or Couturier at the other point slot. Foster is an intriguing option, and it will be an option we will see in the early going. I'm not sold, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Too bad the thread I started about Lavi being pressured to change his system got locked bc it devolved into a Bryz debate. Everything I was concerned about with the D is rearing its ugly head...
I don't think we are going to see much success this season. We lost Carle, which at his price point was a "smart" loss, but his puck moving ability is clearly missing in this current unit. Look at our lines...to have any success, we need a big year from Schenn, a relatively similar year from Read, and increased offensive production from Couturier to be successful. If you are expecting Talbot and Simmonds to have the same type of success as last year, especially Talbot, your asking for trouble.

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01-21-2013, 12:45 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
You, me, the Flyers, and 29 other NHL teams. I have no issue using Timonen and Coburn on unit 1 and 2, respectively, and dropping in a smart forward like Read or Couturier at the other point slot. Foster is an intriguing option, and it will be an option we will see in the early going. I'm not sold, though.



I don't think we are going to see much success this season. We lost Carle, which at his price point was a "smart" loss, but his puck moving ability is clearly missing in this current unit. Look at our lines...to have any success, we need a big year from Schenn, a relatively similar year from Read, and increased offensive production from Couturier to be successful. If you are expecting Talbot and Simmonds to have the same type of success as last year, especially Talbot, your asking for trouble.

We'll be fine. I'll bump some of these threads in 2 months when the Flyers are again one of the top scoring teams in the league.

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01-21-2013, 01:17 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Its not the best contract and an overpayment but sometimes you have to overpay when a player that is maligned in a fad way is actually an asset more than a liability
He's only an asset when he's used right. As a complimentary Dman he's excellent. When he's a primary, go-to Dman the visible results and stats were subpar (on defense AND offense) because he was in over his head. I don't think he's worth that contract if that's how a team plans on using him.

On another note, we need to make the passing lives of our defensemen easier. Much of the time Carle got in trouble with turnovers because he was trying to pass from his own end seemingly through the neutral zone to the blue line. We're still going for those homerun passes from the D and the results are disappointing; as mentioned, we have lost his puck moving ability. I get that they're trying to break out of their own end as quickly as possible, but I don't think the defense is currently built for that. Having a forward hang back to take a shorter pass then either dump and bang/skate it in/pass it elsewhere might help our D a lot. They've had a lot of those passes picked off.

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01-21-2013, 03:28 AM
  #41
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how is schenn playing for u guys?? i really hope he can be a good player for u...
I watched both of Philly's games; Schenn looked like a completely different player than he was with the Leafs. He looked faster, quicker and more confident. He wasnt taking **** from anyone; change of scenery was the best thing for him. If this continues he could be as good as Komisarek was when he was in his prime.

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01-21-2013, 10:19 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litflyersfan View Post
Would you really want Carle back at the contract he just got? No thanks, he cashed in and moved on. We could really use a PMD with something that resembled a shot for powerplay or our special teams are really going to disappoint.
Healthy Mesz could be that guy till someone better comes along. Kimmo can still shoot it too. I think running the point is the least of our worries on D.

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01-21-2013, 08:50 PM
  #43
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see how things play out

46 games to go. i would much rather have a not such a great season in a 48 game season, than a 82 game season, yielding us a pretty good draft pick. the dmen at that draft spot would make a butchers dog smile. then we lose kimmo, and i would*amnesty briere. we gonna need some $$$ for our young guys like giroux. and if we could learn how to draft dmen, in the 2nd round like montreal did with subban and nashville with weber, man we would be set. not sure about ghost, how he develops, but that guy needs to put on some weight, or he will get destroyed out the their. we can no longer operate with this cap by going after other teams pricey ufa dmen, that strategy is not gonna get us any cups, fundamentals like drafting will though.

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01-21-2013, 09:37 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by phillipmike View Post
I watched both of Philly's games; Schenn looked like a completely different player than he was with the Leafs. He looked faster, quicker and more confident. He wasnt taking **** from anyone; change of scenery was the best thing for him. If this continues he could be as good as Komisarek was when he was in his prime.
very happy with that trade so far. i hear JVR hasn't been doing so well in T.O. either. although still very early, the deal could end up being a steal for the Flyers.

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01-21-2013, 09:41 PM
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very happy with that trade so far. i hear JVR hasn't been doing so well in T.O. either. although still very early, the deal could end up being a steal for the Flyers.
I like the trade at this point, as well. But it's early and I've liked it when it was made, so I might be slightly biased. Nonetheless, after these first two games I think losing Jagr and JVR is going to be felt strongly and that even though Schenn might be playing good, we're going to miss the offense more than we would've if we had to make do with someone else in place of Luke.

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01-21-2013, 09:42 PM
  #46
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46 games to go. i would much rather have a not such a great season in a 48 game season, than a 82 game season, yielding us a pretty good draft pick. the dmen at that draft spot would make a butchers dog smile. then we lose kimmo, and i would*amnesty briere. we gonna need some $$$ for our young guys like giroux. and if we could learn how to draft dmen, in the 2nd round like montreal did with subban and nashville with weber, man we would be set. not sure about ghost, how he develops, but that guy needs to put on some weight, or he will get destroyed out the their. we can no longer operate with this cap by going after other teams pricey ufa dmen, that strategy is not gonna get us any cups, fundamentals like drafting will though.
I wouldn't be bent out of shape if the Flyers didn't do well this season...I didn't expect much either. A lottery pick would be fine by me....we need another offseason to fix some of the flaws on this team that are pretty blatant. Just is what it is. If they do well that is fine but key thing is for the rookies to continue to progress, see what we have with Bryz, see what we need on D although it's pretty obvious already, and to see if Lavi needs to be canned...

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01-22-2013, 12:09 AM
  #47
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I thought Timonen looked off in his first two games. I think that has a lot to do with what appears to be the Flyers trouble moving the puck, and also having an effective PP. There were moments when normally Timonen easily holds the line on a PP, but in the first two games, he didn't, and the puck movement suffered because of it.

Once he gets his feet and hands back I think the breakouts get a little easier, some pressure will come off Schenn, and you notice less time spent chasing players in the defensive end and more time possessing the puck (although to be fair I don't know if that helps the problems discussed about the other defensive pairings).

As for the PP, I think Timonen is just fine at the other point. After Giroux's PP bomb against the Sabres (very reminiscent of his goal over Brodeur last year) teams are going to have to cheat on that PP, much like they do against Stamkos, and one can hope Timonen will have enough extra time to get pucks through to the net...with Hartnell and Simmonds there in front.

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01-22-2013, 12:29 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Rocket of Russia View Post
I thought Timonen looked off in his first two games. I think that has a lot to do with what appears to be the Flyers trouble moving the puck, and also having an effective PP. There were moments when normally Timonen easily holds the line on a PP, but in the first two games, he didn't, and the puck movement suffered because of it.

Once he gets his feet and hands back I think the breakouts get a little easier, some pressure will come off Schenn, and you notice less time spent chasing players in the defensive end and more time possessing the puck (although to be fair I don't know if that helps the problems discussed about the other defensive pairings).

As for the PP, I think Timonen is just fine at the other point. After Giroux's PP bomb against the Sabres (very reminiscent of his goal over Brodeur last year) teams are going to have to cheat on that PP, much like they do against Stamkos, and one can hope Timonen will have enough extra time to get pucks through to the net...with Hartnell and Simmonds there in front.
i was thinking the same thing. It's like there'd be no way to stop it. if you take away G's passing lanes across the slot and in the slot, you're just going to get burned on a monster one-timer, and if you take away the one timer route, and his lane to the net, you're just going to get burnt on a cross ice pass or a patented hartnell slot buster.

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01-22-2013, 01:21 AM
  #49
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what are these assets you speak of.
Assets:
Draft picks
Current Roster Players
Prospects

Depending on the quality of player, the above three would change. It's how most trades work.

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01-22-2013, 02:31 AM
  #50
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Prospects
We have these? I wasn't aware.

What roster players are you moving?

I like how we draft, lets keep our picks.

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