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Old
01-21-2013, 03:13 AM
  #351
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Oilers season opener a Disaster Waiting to Happen

Wins are wins and we need to take them all to become champions.

That game was a huge relief in that we got two points but a huge letdown the way it was coached and played.

There was absolutely no flow or rythm to our game for the full 60 mins,for the love of god we were dumping the puck in the entire first half of the game and part of the second half--probably the most regressive and talent wasting tactic we could ever employ in any game ever considering our roster skillsets and depth,the only line that performed near expectations was the 3rd line.The other two lines did not perform well enough at all.

First we wasted a period and a half dumping and chasing like ten year olds,actually like Van usually does--while they engineered upspeed zone transitions based out of the neutral zone,good thing they didnt bring that upspeed transition to the o-zone or we would have been buried early.

Our d-men had absolutely no continuity,Petry and Smid were our anchors,Nick S had a difficult time filling holes for Justin S all night long and we may need to see Potter playing with him.Watching Whitney working with the second line just hurt .Petry looked like a #1 d-man tonight.

Our offense wasnt catalysed by a possesion game and our overall performance suffered greatly,we were LUCKY to get two points out of that mess.Seeing our roster dumping in the puck is sickening to have to endure.Hemmer shot the puck and scored one off the rush,woopeee,Ebbs went for it with seconds left and scored a trademark goal,so what?Both goals were one dimensional plays one by Eberle who is a two dimensional player and one by Hemsky who is a one dimensional player.Hemsky fulfilled his normal role and the fact that Eberle had to resort to a one dimensional attack and tactic speaks VOLUMES about the disjointed 60 mins we witnessed.We had no ability to generate first transitions out of our own zone,and when we did get ok looks we couldnt hit the long passes we tried.We had almost no support from the forwards to defeat the forcheck and this is why our 1st transition was a disaster and we couldnt start solid breakouts,teams are good at stopping the fast break,it probably the easiest transition play to stop.


Our goals were not system generated and that means we won on pure skill tonight and this is cause for serious review and immediate concern.

Our first line looked the worst out there tonight,only surpassing our 2nd line by a tiny margin,they were both trying to play a consistant type of gameplan that forced them to all look dyslexic our entire top 6 looked discombobulated.

We seriously missed MPSs speed size and defensive awarness on the 2nd line and judging by the way the 3rd line played had Hemmer been there he still would have scored.We need MPS on the 2nd line ASAP,the bullet we dodged tonight proves this completely,and no more dump and chase it is ******** for any tham to voluntarily surrender a possesion just to try to regain possesion again??

We need to catalyse our offense out of 3 controlled zone transitions to support the natural skillsets of our top 6,we have elite talent and we need to use it fully and completely,within the system of course.

Having one dimensional players playing on lines with two dimensional players made us look like a drunken marrionette out there.We need to address this and put MPS on the 2nd,Hemmer on the 3rd,and let the 1st line catalyse their offense like I said so RNH can do his creative majic--he and Hall were invisible out there as Ebbs nearly was as well.We cannot afford this dyslexic line performance this season,we need to readdress the criteria we are using to put our lines together immediatly,we need to aknowledge who is one dimensional and who is two dimensional and then keep them apart like water and oil,or we will FUBAR our system no matter what Ralph is asking the men to do.We need to consider the NewAge Hockey System it is unproven but fits our template perfectly,googling ATSBadmedicineNewAgeHockeySystem will show why.

Our PP also looked very disorganised,I think we need to let the guys stay out longer.

Our d-men were not skating the puck up at all,they were choking up and trying a long outlet breakout pass all the time and this just resulted in many turnovers or losses of possesion with no shots on net,the cardinal sin.The d-men needed to skate it up at least 10 or 15 feet and then relay to supporting forwards who werent there tonight at all because we were geared for a breakout setup not a transitional style--everyone was to far upice to support the d-men in dealing with the aggressive forchecking,MPS would have been by proxy.

All in all this looks to be a rollercoaster ride because we will win decieving games like this based on pure talent ,but that alone is one dimensional and not what we are aiming for--in fact when you see our goals manifesting from one dimensional efforts you know our system isnt functioning properly,as was the case tonight in our season opener.Ralph and his coaching staff better be up late watching this tape because this was a game where they were very slow to react to changes in the game and slow to identify when their tactics werent working and needed to be adjusted,it was really a mess in general,no flow at all.whoever initiated the dump and chase better rethink that tactic,this isnt a 48 game death march for gods sakes we can play a little more complicated of a system than that with all of our talent ,cant we??

Someone tell Yakupov he can take it to the net all night long because he often finds himself in range like two or three times a game,he was hesitant,he needs a 100% green light for 60 mins.I didnt like how the 2nd line looked at all ,poor puck distribution and to much reliance on Hemmers speed and not enough on Yakupov and Gagners skillsets.The first line simply must play as I encourage the 2nd line to play,or they will look mortal and perform like mortals.Our top 6 need to all play with two dimensional linemates and this means hemmer out and MPS in next game,and no dump and chase,with some support for the d-men on the forcheck so they can skate it up before they relay it.I hope the next game looks a little more organised than this effort.I saw the try out there but not the results--just two points-a passing grade.

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Old
01-21-2013, 03:19 AM
  #352
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Very good game by Dubnyk. Bit of a weak goal in the first, he was probably screened a bit. And Edler got a great shot.

Hugh save in OT on Burrow, the shot was labelled but deflected off Dubnyk's shoulder pad over the glass, all while Dubnyk was on the way going down on his knees. If Dubnyk is "only" 6"0, that's a goal under the crossbar.

Big goalie is the way to go imo. Every goalie we bring in from now on, draft, trade or free agent, must be at least 6"2. There's no way Olivier Roy can make the NHL with us, it's just too big of a disadvantage to have a 5"11 goalie.

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01-21-2013, 03:19 AM
  #353
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And my response to this post? It was the first game of our season. Vancouver, albeit playing just yesterday, has gotten the chance to fully adjust to the NHL speed, rhythm and flows of the game. We needed to get our feet wet, and just looking at shots alone stemming from the 2nd period on, I'd say we were up to our shorts.

We'll need a few games to get back into the flow of things, and allow for chemistry to blossom or fail so we can make appropriate adjustments.


Don't be pessimistic after the first game. This is the Oilers we're talking about here. Don't expect much just yet, but at the same time, enjoy the little victories. Such as, beating Vancouver on the road.


Last edited by Oilbleeder: 01-21-2013 at 11:21 AM. Reason: cut it out
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Old
01-21-2013, 03:20 AM
  #354
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I don't even mind the weak goal. I'm happier that he didn't allow it to throw him off of his game.

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01-21-2013, 03:24 AM
  #355
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can someone post the panic button thing for this guy

one friggen game and we won. The is the bottom line--we won.

We have a young developing team and sometimes even in the early 80's there were moments when the guys looked to be lost

I would rather have MPS on the farm then in the PB and woould hartikeinen being better served with more then 6minutes a game and 9 shifts.

In ten games when they have had time to play together more-lets talk

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01-21-2013, 03:24 AM
  #356
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Hey, relax, it's only game one, and it's only hockey, not a science project.

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Old
01-21-2013, 03:54 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
Another thought... Hemsky/Gagner/Yak might end up being our third line on the road, because they're going be need to be heavily sheltered for a while. They seemed to bleed opportunities against and I think the Canucks even adjusted and instead of matching the twins against the RNH line, decided later to put them against Gagner's line instead to exploit them. Hopefully they'll overtake but Gagner and Yak were both making some really poor decisions and giving up juicy turn overs.
Have to disagree.

Gagner is always a bit iffy with his puck management, Yakupov is raw defensively, and Hemsky is hard coded in his DNA towards making high risk plays, but they generally kept the play moving in right direction despite their poor first two periods. The two goals scored against their line were more the result of the real weak link in the roster(Whitney/Potter pairing), than any deficencies in their defensive game.

The actual 3rd line struggled at even strength though, and I suspect they'll be broken up before long. Horcoff/Smyth/Harti were effective on special teams when they could focus on only half the ice, but when matched out there at even-strength, their lack of footspeed became a major vunerability on the backcheck - something magnified when they were put out there with the glacially slow pairing of Whitney/Potter. Vancouver's best chances in the game actually came right after Horcoff's 5 star opportunities when no one on the ice could get back in time to cover defensively, and this game really wasn't that far off from being another ho-hum 5 - 3 loss with the 3rd line getting a well earned -3 for each member of that line.

Dubnyk saved their a$$es, and I wouldn't be all that suprised to see Paajarvi draw in for Harti this tuesday.

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01-21-2013, 04:14 AM
  #358
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Paajarvi isn't quite the catalyst you believe him to be man, he's not going to step in and settle down much of anything at this point in his career.

Might want to tone down the stream of conciousness narrative as well, your posts read like the killer's notebooks from the movie Seven

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01-21-2013, 04:16 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Have to disagree.

Gagner is always a bit iffy with his puck management, Yakupov is raw defensively, and Hemsky is hard coded in his DNA towards making high risk plays, but they generally kept the play moving in right direction despite their poor first two periods. The two goals scored against their line were more the result of the real weak link in the roster(Whitney/Potter pairing), than any deficencies in their defensive game.

The actual 3rd line struggled at even strength though, and I suspect they'll be broken up before long. Horcoff/Smyth/Harti were effective on special teams when they could focus on only half the ice, but when matched out there at even-strength, their lack of footspeed became a major vunerability on the backcheck - something magnified when they were put out there with the glacially slow pairing of Whitney/Potter. Vancouver's best chances in the game actually came right after Horcoff's 5 star opportunities when no one on the ice could get back in time to cover defensively, and this game really wasn't that far off from being another ho-hum 5 - 3 loss with the 3rd line getting a well earned -3 for each member of that line.

Dubnyk saved their a$$es, and I wouldn't be all that suprised to see Paajarvi draw in for Harti this tuesday.
I hope this will not be the case but I can see it happening as well. For the record I personally believe more in PRV than Harti (although I most definitely understand the posters who don't) but at the same time I hope Krueger sticks with the plan and give Harti at least 6-7 games. I think that the main reason for keeping PRV up is to possibly replace Harti but I don't think it is time yet. If Harti steps up and finds his game on the 3rd line (I didn't see the game so the "stepping up" part is based on what I've read here) PRV should be sent back down within a couple of weeks to continue his development by getting 1st/2nd line ice time with the Barons. If Harti cannot manage I wish that they will give an equal opportunity to PRV, i.e. 6-7 games.

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01-21-2013, 04:20 AM
  #360
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whens horcoff going to get bought out

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01-21-2013, 04:26 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Parise9Crosby87 View Post
whens horcoff going to get bought out
Never.

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01-21-2013, 04:42 AM
  #362
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I hope this will not be the case but I can see it happening as well. For the record I personally believe more in PRV than Harti (although I most definitely understand the posters who don't) but at the same time I hope Krueger sticks with the plan and give Harti at least 6-7 games. I think that the main reason for keeping PRV up is to possibly replace Harti but I don't think it is time yet. If Harti steps up and finds his game on the 3rd line (I didn't see the game so the "stepping up" part is based on what I've read here) PRV should be sent back down within a couple of weeks to continue his development by getting 1st/2nd line ice time with the Barons. If Harti cannot manage I wish that they will give an equal opportunity to PRV, i.e. 6-7 games.
The issue is less about getting a chance to showcase, and more about not having a spot where he can be put into a position to succeed right now.

Horcoff/Smyth were used as special teams specialists last night. If that is the gameplan going forward, it's not going to matter who better compliments those two at even-strength, the 3rd member on that line is going to get the shaft with regards to icetime no matter what.

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01-21-2013, 04:49 AM
  #363
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Lies, Damn lies and Statistics

Lies, Damn lies and Statistics Mark Twain

with the season finally on us and games now a foot and arguments sure to raise into more then friendly banter. i was thinking about stats beyond that of the final score.

Final score on Jan 20th was an oiler victory 3-2 in a shoot out

but what about the box score and looking at the individual stats--what grabbed your attention for being good, stats that were bad, others that may be as ugly as ex-wfe after you told her no more alimony checks or stats that are causing you some concern.

What I am talking about are the patterns that will emerge as the season goes along and the stats that grab your attention. Post them here and either, hopefully, people will agree or disagree and use facts to back up their opinion

Game one is in the books and here are some stats that grabbed my attention

first the box scores
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/boxscore?gid=2013012022
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/scores/boxscore/?id=16922
http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=400442492
oiler as a team http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...=nav-sts-indiv

Stats of concern. MPS healthy scratch and Teemu Hartikainen playing 6 minutes and 9 shifts. For me, we should consider playing them on the farm where they would get top 6 minutes for the rest of the year---they can join guys like Lander, Pitlick, Martindale, Marincin, Hamilton, Teubert and other second wave of prospects who need time to develop. On the farm the Oiler have Josh Green, who I believe is on a two way contract--he is a big body like Hartikenien and him doing 6 to 8 minutes a game every so often would do no harm

Good Stats from game 1--beyond that of the final score

On the dot--we have been horrible on the dot for 5 years nearly where we regularly ended up losing 70% of the face off some games.
Last night
Belenger went 9-7
gagner 7-7
Horcoff 10-6
Nuge 7-7

for me winning more face offs will lead to more wins. It is one of those stats that often separates the good teams from the bad teams

N Schultz blocking shots-- he blocked 9 last night-- looks like Smid and healthy scratch Fistric have a battle on their hands for that stat this year. Oilers for the last few years did not have to many D-man that could block shots. Like winning face offs, that is very important and in my opinion helps on the win lose sheets

Shots on net- 30. I am sure I am not the only one over the past 5 years that screamed at the TV or internet feed-- SHOOT THE ****ING PUCK!!!. Dick Irven SR had a great line "If you shoot the puck on net, good things will happen sometimes." Oilers over the last few years loved passing trying to find the perfect shot. Sometime shooting the puck on net is just sometime called for.

Hemsky, 1g 1a and shootout winner, for me he should be more of a whipping boy then Horcoff, Hemsky has all the talent to be one of the best players in the game--but for ten years he has been one of the most frustrating--with more talent on the team he may now be able to get more things done.

dubnyk--.931 save percentage,

Stats of early concern.

Yakupov, rookie in his first games so he gets a pass on his play. But two stats jump to mind. -2 and 1 shot on net. We are not looking for a defencive minded FW with this kid, we are looking for a guy to get the little black puck on net and into the net.
Also -2 last night Hemsky, Gagner, Potter, Hemsky got 2 pts and the winner in the shootout and Gagner 1pt and scored in the shootout. So they redeemed themselves. I am not a Potter fan and once Fistric gets to know our system I am hoping Potter gets more in time in the peanut butter jar(otherwise known as the press box)

The Nuge also got no shots on net,

J Schultz 1 shot on net and 1 blocked shot. Rookie jitters as well.

What stats and not actual play grabbed your attention last night?

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01-21-2013, 05:05 AM
  #364
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Yakupov, rookie in his first games so he gets a pass on his play. But two stats jump to mind. -2 and 1 shot on net. We are not looking for a defencive minded FW with this kid, we are looking for a guy to get the little black puck on net and into the net. Also -2 last night Hemsky, Gagner, Potter, Hemsky got 2 pts and the winner in the shootout and Gagner 1pt and scored in the shootout. So they redeemed themselves. I am not a Potter fan and once Fistric gets to know our system I am hoping Potter gets more in time in the peanut butter jar(otherwise known as the press box)

The Nuge also got no shots on net

J Schultz 1 shot on net and 1 blocked shot. Rookie jitters as well.
Yakupov's first minus he obtained when was literally stepping into the bench on a line change.

2nd minus, he took his man correctly. Whitney was wandering in no man's land, and Gagner wasn't really covering much of anything while being in the general vicinity of the front of the net - Kreuger even made a special mention of it in his post game.

Nuge had several chances, but his aim was way off, like 2 - 3 feet off on all his passes/shots. Off night for him.

JShultz was quite good despite the uneventful statline. No jitters, just NHL caliber goaltending and defensive systems nullifying a lot of chances and potential chances.

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01-21-2013, 05:11 AM
  #365
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Yakupov's first minus he obtained when was literally stepping into the bench on a line change.

2nd minus, he took his man correctly. Whitney was wandering in no man's land, and Gagner wasn't really covering much of anything while being in the general vicinity of the front of the net - Kreuger even made a special mention of it in his post game.

Nuge had several chances, but his aim was way off, like 2 - 3 feet off on all his passes/shots. Off night for him.

JShultz was quite good despite the uneventful statline. No jitters, just NHL caliber goaltending and defensive systems nullifying a lot of chances and potential chances.
opinion vs stats

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01-21-2013, 05:23 AM
  #366
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Yeah, I thought the second goal wasn't really the fault of either individual, but the pair as a whole. It reminded me of two outfielders getting their wires crossed and flubbing a fly ball; both seemed to think that the other would pick up Kassian heading to the net.
There was blame to be had for both Whitney and Potter (more so Whitney imo) on the Kassian score.

But Gagner cannot be let off the hook for that goal. I have no idea what specific responsibilities the Oilers defensive scheme employs, but there's no denying that Gagner was the man in the slot, he wasn't covering anyone else and he let Kassian slip in behind him and then go right past him to the net. Pretty unacceptable for a pro of Gagner's experience.

Some people are going to over react to that mistake and say things like "he disregarded his duties as a center" all night long. That would be false of course. Overall I think Gagner had a good game. He was setting up Hemsky all night and that whole line was really skating hard. Killer move in the shootout makes him seven for his last ten SO attempts. Not too shabby.

I doubt Krueger changes up any lines or subs anyone in up front. He said in several interviews that I heard that he spent eight months thinking about these line combos and that he was going to give them some time to try to work out their issues before he started tinkering. I guess we'll find out if he really meant it.

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01-21-2013, 05:31 AM
  #367
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btw my god, good thing jason garrison was signed for his shot b/c it definitely wasnt for his skating
He played mostly with Campbell last year and that helped cover that up a bit. Should be interesting to see how he progresses in a more fast skating and attack orientated offense

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01-21-2013, 06:28 AM
  #368
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just WIN baby..!!

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01-21-2013, 06:33 AM
  #369
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Too long, didn't read.

Just win.

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01-21-2013, 06:38 AM
  #370
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Back to the original posters point. MPS is not the magic pill that will instantly fix this teams issues (and there are issues). But lets look at it logically.

1) no nhl team completely lacks systems as you are suggesting. Sometimes teams re not able to execute due to the opponents game plan but it doesnt mean they are just skating circles. In the first period the kid line continually tried to carry over the line only to get checked or stood up by vancouvers defense. Credit to kreuger for adjusting.

2) kreuger may not be completely new but he is totally different from renney. Give the oilers a few games to really learn his vision. Vancouver has been laying together under vigneault for years. That sort of chemistry and execution doesn't just happen in a 6 day camp

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01-21-2013, 06:52 AM
  #371
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Originally Posted by BadMedicine View Post
Wins are wins and we need to take them all to become champions.

That game was a huge relief in that we got two points but a huge letdown the way it was coached and played.

<snip>
Oh good, we've entered Crazytown.

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01-21-2013, 07:08 AM
  #372
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RNH was MIA tonight. He was horrible but it's early and there is gonna be some rust to work off for the entire team.
that and he's *19 years old*, lol.... people except him to just step in and get 1 PPG... this is only his 2nd season and he still has a LOT to learn... if he can put up the same point pace as he did last year, while getting slightly better in the other areas of the game, then i'll be a very happy camper

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01-21-2013, 07:17 AM
  #373
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How it was coached and how it was played... outskated, outhit, outchanced, outshot and out-possessed a team that didn't play poor hockey and won the game.

I mean... yeah, didn't have a ton of flow, but for half the group it was the first game of hockey they've played in, like, 200 days.

OP might want to invest in Bipolar medication.

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01-21-2013, 07:23 AM
  #374
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that and he's *19 years old*, lol.... people except him to just step in and get 1 PPG... this is only his 2nd season and he still has a LOT to learn... if he can put up the same point pace as he did last year, while getting slightly better in the other areas of the game, then i'll be a very happy camper
He's not cheating as much offensively as his linemates either. He's playing a well-rounded responsible defensive game IMO. If he scores at a 65-pt pace with great 2-way hockey ill take it over point/game and what he did last year (bleed chances at ES)

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01-21-2013, 07:24 AM
  #375
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Honestly, I thought the Oilers carried the play for much of the game, outside of the first period when Edmonton was on the PK for most of it. The Oilers made a few mistakes, and twice they ended up in the net, but overall I thought they play was strong.

As for how it was coached, I liked how Krueger put the kids on the ice as much as he did. I don't see a problem on Krueger based on the short sample of games from last year and the one this year. No flow? Very few teams have it right now.

If I were you, I'd chill a bit, dude. It's one game, and we came back from being down 2-0 in Vancouver's barn to win in a shoot out. Would that have happened last year? No.

Take wins were you get them, and don't complain. Not every win will be pretty (even though I thought this one was up there, effort wise.)

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