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This team will not succeed as long as David Desharnais is a top 6 center.

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01-21-2013, 08:55 AM
  #201
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Plekanec is more valuable than DD on this team. DD plays on one side of the red line. If we keep 1 veteran on this fwd group it needs to be Tomas Plekanec, who do you think Galchenyuk would be more comfortable playing infront/behind of? Desharnais? Dont think so.

Galchenyuk: plays the whole ice surface, elite offensive center potential

Plekanec: Arguably one of the best two-way centers in the league, 55 points easily.

Eller: 2 way center, offensive potential is there. 45 points would be nice.



if we kept those 3 guys, i believe it gives us the best chance of winning.

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01-21-2013, 08:56 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by couris View Post
Plekanec is not better than DD.
Maybe not offensively. But he brings an essential defensive element that DD doesn't.

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01-21-2013, 08:58 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Maybe not offensively. But he brings an essential defensive element that DD doesn't.
DD has had one good season, we all know plekanec would have the same numbers playing with the linemates DD had. I love DD, but he is far from the play pleky is.

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01-21-2013, 09:01 AM
  #204
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Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - __________

________ - Plekanec - __________

________ - Eller - Gallagher


whether hab fans want to admit it or not, the blueprint is there. Its Bergevins job to fill in the holes. We have a future 1st line center, we have an elite power forward/sniper and we have 3 centers who more importantly than anything..compete. Guys like Collberg and Bozon/Hudon could fill some of these voids as well.

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01-21-2013, 09:03 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by CHamps View Post
Bare with me here.

I realize a lot of people are DD fans, and with just cause, I like the man and the player as well. However, I strongly feel that this team will not succeed as long as he is a top 6 center.

A center should be a force on the ice, someone who is strong on the dot, strong on the puck, strong on both ends of the ice on top of the obvious need for on-ice vision. Sure, Desharnais has very slick hands and great vision, but his presence is not going to intimidate anyone, ever. This is not a knock on the man, he is a tough little dude and could likely beat the crap out of me, but against other top NHL centers...it's almost laughable.

If Plekanec were a different type of player we might be able to get away with having DD as a top 6 center, but having those 2 be our 1-2 is a recipe for failure and maintenance of our 'soft' identity. A center often defines his line as the puck literally starts on their sticks (after whistles)

Plekanec-Eller should be solidified as our top 2. Sure, the Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole combo looked very good last year, but they got soft minutes and only looked good in comparison to the rest of the team which looked like trash. That same trio looked horrible last night and is IMO bound for disaster. Keep Desharnais with MaxPac, but put him on the wing and stick Eller in the middle.

Cole-Plekanec-Gionta
MaxPac-Eller-Desharnais

something of that sort should be our top 6.

Discuss/debate David Desharnais as a top 6 center in this thread.


This might not be worth it's own thread but I did not know where else to vent about this, mods feel free to merge with something...or not
Arrived late. Not sure I'm going to deal with this thread. You have just bought yourself a ******** of trouble.

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01-21-2013, 09:10 AM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - __________

________ - Plekanec - __________

________ - Eller - Gallagher


whether hab fans want to admit it or not, the blueprint is there. Its Bergevins job to fill in the holes. We have a future 1st line center, we have an elite power forward/sniper and we have 3 centers who more importantly than anything..compete. Guys like Collberg and Bozon/Hudon could fill some of these voids as well.

What tells you that Galchenyuk will play center?

Besides, Plekanec gets dealt, whether you want to admit it or not, because he's PROBABLY the guy who can fetch the better return, and because he has, and probably will have, a higher pricetag than Desharnais. Unless this team isn't rebuilding, in which case, we're probably just MapleLeafsing our way into mediocrity.

This said, I think DD shouldn't be our 1st center and that he could eventually do a better job at wing.


Last edited by MXD: 01-21-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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01-21-2013, 09:19 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Of course this is true. The entire position of centre is a disaster on this team. Bergevin knows this thankfully.

Unfortunately the GaineyGoats era produced nothing in this area amd we are left with what we have today.
Finally. Jeez. I've been ranting about how crap we are at center for 2 years, with a bunch of crap and lame replies.

I have watched Habs centers since 1968.

We are **** at center. And we are a **** team because of this.

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01-21-2013, 09:32 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I look at our team going forward and on one hand I see great things, on the other though I'm not so sure.

I like the defensive prospects we have coming up Beaulieu, Tinordi and I feel like our blueline going forward will probably be in decent shape. Our forwards though? Do we have have anyone really to be excited about beyond Galchenyuk? LL might be okay but there's nobody there that can really carry the day.

I'm more worried about the future of our forwards than on defense.
So am I. I am very worried about our forwards, now and for the next 2 years. We look awful at forward. Collberg? Kristo? Gallagher? Bozon, Hudon? Get real. Every single wing prospect we have is 2nd line upside at best. Please. It's a ****ing joke. Dream on if you think these guys are the answer. Sorry to be neg, but that is what I think.

Kristo is a perfect example. The guy is like 22 and chooses to play NCAA. Why? Because he's not good enough. If he was, he'd be playing for us right now. I can't stand his lack of drive.

Collberg CANNOT SCORE in Swedish elite at age 18, probably 19 now. Drafted early second NHL. Literally cannot score goals. Ten minutes a game? So what? It's a ****ing joke. What the **** is that? Do you think that is the sign of a future NHL star? It is not. Oh, he's playing against men. Yeah. **** 24 year old journeymen who were not drafted early second NHL round. He should be killing that league already. He is not.

No one is getting it here. 22 is OLD now. Almost all really good NHL players are making it by 21. The league and the game has changed, and our prospects are not good enough compared to the really good 20 year olds making it right now.

And our 18-19 year olds should be showing a hell of a lot more than our 18-19 year olds are showing. Guy ****ing Carbonneau scored 140 and 180 points his last 2 years in junior. Guy Carbonneau. Higher scoring then? Yes. But give me a break. And we get excited at Hudon's 70 point pace?

I have zero confidence in our forward prospects as future stars in this league. Zero. Draft another top 5 forward for god's sake.

I'm actually totally unimpressed with TT's drafting of forwards, and I always have been. He has not drafted one STAR forward for the Habs, EVER, except Gally at no. 3 last summer, and Pax, who is very good, but not a star. And people here defend him. ****ing hell. He has missed a SHI-TLOAD of great forwards the last 10 years. He really has. He should have been fired because of the Fischer pick, absolutely gassed. That pick killed this team.

I don't support TT on these boards, and I should not. If last year's and this year's draft does not produce one top line forward picked lower than 10th, Timmins should be gassed. I've had enough of him. Louis Leblanc for god's sake. My sister is stronger.

We need another top 5 forward pick this year, for sure. Because TT will not be finding a second round forward star, you can bet on that.


Last edited by bsl: 01-21-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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01-21-2013, 09:53 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by CHamps View Post
Bare with me here.

I realize a lot of people are DD fans, and with just cause, I like the man and the player as well. However, I strongly feel that this team will not succeed as long as he is a top 6 center.

A center should be a force on the ice, someone who is strong on the dot, strong on the puck, strong on both ends of the ice on top of the obvious need for on-ice vision. Sure, Desharnais has very slick hands and great vision, but his presence is not going to intimidate anyone, ever. This is not a knock on the man, he is a tough little dude and could likely beat the crap out of me, but against other top NHL centers...it's almost laughable.

If Plekanec were a different type of player we might be able to get away with having DD as a top 6 center, but having those 2 be our 1-2 is a recipe for failure and maintenance of our 'soft' identity. A center often defines his line as the puck literally starts on their sticks (after whistles)

Plekanec-Eller should be solidified as our top 2. Sure, the Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole combo looked very good last year, but they got soft minutes and only looked good in comparison to the rest of the team which looked like trash. That same trio looked horrible last night and is IMO bound for disaster. Keep Desharnais with MaxPac, but put him on the wing and stick Eller in the middle.

Cole-Plekanec-Gionta
MaxPac-Eller-Desharnais

something of that sort should be our top 6.

Discuss/debate David Desharnais as a top 6 center in this thread.


This might not be worth it's own thread but I did not know where else to vent about this, mods feel free to merge with something...or not
You have got to be kidding ? Yvan Cournoyer was told he was "too small.".........Despite Yvon being a Right Winger, they both have a desire to get to the net.........I`m really hoping he has another great year.......ACTUALLY I KNOW HE WILL.

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01-21-2013, 09:57 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Habblues View Post
You have got to be kidding ? Yvan Cournoyer was told he was "too small.".........Despite Yvon being a Right Winger, they both have a desire to get to the net.........I`m really hoping he has another great year.......ACTUALLY I KNOW HE WILL.
I'm not saying he won't, nor do I not want him to, but his individual success does not supercede the team's needs. What this team needs, as it has for a decade now, is a top 6 center with size.

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01-21-2013, 09:58 AM
  #211
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If he plays like we did last year, no issue with having DD as top 6 Centre.

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01-21-2013, 10:00 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
So am I. I am very worried about our forwards, now and for the next 2 years. We look awful at forward. Collberg? Kristo? Gallagher? Bozon, Hudon? Get real. Every single wing prospect we have is 2nd line upside at best. Please. It's a ****ing joke. Dream on if you think these guys are the answer. Sorry to be neg, but that is what I think.

Kristo is a perfect example. The guy is like 22 and chooses to play NCAA. Why? Because he's not good enough.

God we need another top 5 forward pick this year, for sure.
Collberg? Kristo? Gallagher? Bozon, Hudon?
2nd rd, 2nd rd, 5th rd, 3rd rd, 4th rd

Not bad spots to be getting 2nd line potential.

And no these guys are not "the answer" but what the heck is wrong with that kind of depth. Besides, one may surprise us and end up as a top notch player, it happens, not often mind you.

Kristo chose to play NCAA...big deal, seeing a lockout coming, he guarantees top line minutes on a team competing for a National title. He might have decided on it for that reason, or because he felt he owed them something, or he wanted to pull a Justin Schultz. But we can't dismiss him as a lousy player just because he chose a different path than what fans wanted.

We aren't bereft of good prospects up front. We just really have the one Elite prospect. Not bad for a team that picks middle of the pack 99% of the time. We definately could use another, no doubt. We do have the pieces to move to get one too, especially with the 4 top 60 picks coming up. And, if this team wallows near the basement again this year, we can be certain to get one.

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01-21-2013, 10:02 AM
  #213
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In like 15 years.. when he retires with over 1,000 career points.

What a god damn myth. When has this ever been proven? (that DD needs Cole and Pacioretty to produce). Oh right, when he was producing with Pouliot, Pyatt, Darche, and White?

Cole was struggling before he was paired with DD and Patches/DD had chemistry from Hamilton.

Desharnais played like 3 games with Cammalleri and Leblanc last year. He helped get Cammy back on track (Cammy went on to publically praise him in the media) and Leblanc looked the most dangerous he ever has in the NHL during that stint. Cammy went right back to struggling after this stint (no idea why they were split up anyway).

There is no way to prove that he NEEDS Pacioretty and Cole to produce. They got put together because the team was struggling, started lighting the ice on fire, so they were left together. In fact, the proof seems to point that DD may be able to produce with just about anyone.

Give him Bourque and Galchenyuk. He'll still produce points. Although it will be because Bourque is so good and Galchenyuk developed that fast.

And PS. the only time Desharnais was in the playoffs, he looked pretty damn solid. And, as posted by someone earlier (I think Andy, could be wrong), Desharnais had 10 points (and like +5) in 11 games versus Philadelphia and Boston last year.

Many here are afraid that DD won't produce without Cole and/or Pacioretty (not a myth!). We did the ''boring one line team'' last year...time for a change. You can always reunite DD with our two biggest skilled forwards later on (time to try other lines and spread the wealth to other lines). Put Bourque with DD and let's see if DD really deserves $4-5mil/year he will ask for. I don't want to be stuck with that contract. I'd rather go get a top 4 UFA dman with that $$.

For me (2014):
Pleks
Galchenyuk
Eller

Maybe Habs management will keep everyone, but I really doubt it!
(Pleks, Galchenyuk, Eller, Leblanc, and...5'5-5'6 DD).


Cole - _____ - Pacioretty
(insert almost any center here and that center will most probably have success with Cole and Pacioretty...unless Cole's mind is on retirement,etc).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 01-21-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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Old
01-21-2013, 10:07 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
If he plays like we did last year, no issue with having DD as top 6 Centre.

Keeping DD or keeping Pleks (one or the other) to me is all dependant on the play of Eller and Gally.

keep one and move the other to make the team better on the wing...or move one to the wing

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01-21-2013, 10:08 AM
  #215
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Kristo is a perfect example. The guy is like 22...

No one is getting it here. 22 is OLD now.
You ******** me, right? wow, you are so far off base you aren't even in the park. Ok, lets give up on a player because he is 22 and hasn't played a game in the NHL. That is likely one of the dumbest things i've read on these forums, and i've seen a lot of dumb things. Flashback to Saturday night. Kostka for the leafs owned us, played 22+mins. He is 27 and that was his first NHL game, picked up an assist on the PP. Your logic is flawed. Justin Schultz for EDM is another example who by your logic would be worthless now.

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01-21-2013, 10:11 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
Plekanec is more valuable than DD on this team. DD plays on one side of the red line. If we keep 1 veteran on this fwd group it needs to be Tomas Plekanec, who do you think Galchenyuk would be more comfortable playing infront/behind of? Desharnais? Dont think so.

Galchenyuk: plays the whole ice surface, elite offensive center potential

Plekanec: Arguably one of the best two-way centers in the league, 55 points easily.

Eller: 2 way center, offensive potential is there. 45 points would be nice.


if we kept those 3 guys, i believe it gives us the best chance of winning.
Agreed. We can't keep everyone unfortunately and the best top 3 would be Pleks, Galchenyuk, and Eller.

Lots of people are saying DD is good with anyone, yet...these people are afraid of separating DD from his protection (Cole and Pacioretty). Our top 3 lines would be better if we spread out Cole and Pacioretty. If DD is that good...give him Bourque.

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01-21-2013, 10:15 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
Keeping DD or keeping Pleks (one or the other) to me is all dependant on the play of Eller and Gally.

keep one and move the other to make the team better on the wing...or move one to the wing
Umm...Gally should be sent down. There is no need to hurry his development. The team isn't going anywhere with or without him. Let him develop properly.

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01-21-2013, 10:18 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
Keeping DD or keeping Pleks (one or the other) to me is all dependant on the play of Eller and Gally.

keep one and move the other to make the team better on the wing...or move one to the wing
I agree, specially with Eller, IMO if Eller has a breakout year, a bit more offensive good 2way play, Plekanec can be expandable. I kinda see Eller as a big Plek, so I would have no problem with having Gally-DD-and Eller down the middle, only issue might be they would be very young and not much experience.

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01-21-2013, 10:22 AM
  #219
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I think I need to let more than 1 game pass before I can make a determination on whether DD is the team's problem. One thing is certain, he definitely did not look like a problem last season.

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01-21-2013, 10:27 AM
  #220
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Umm...Gally should be sent down. There is no need to hurry his development. The team isn't going anywhere with or without him. Let him develop properly.
And what if Galchenyuk lights up the league? do we move him down? That's the point of me saying it is dependant on his play.

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01-21-2013, 10:30 AM
  #221
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I agree, specially with Eller, IMO if Eller has a breakout year, a bit more offensive good 2way play, Plekanec can be expandable. I kinda see Eller as a big Plek, so I would have no problem with having Gally-DD-and Eller down the middle, only issue might be they would be very young and not much experience.
If they have experienced wingers and some solid veteran D that problem could be minimized. Not to mention, if Pleks is moved, it may be for someone that could compliment one or more of those 3 centres

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01-21-2013, 10:34 AM
  #222
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And what if Galchenyuk lights up the league? do we move him down? That's the point of me saying it is dependant on his play.
All depends if you want to burn a year on his contract with only a 48 game season, or save it for a 82 game season. While some may be interested in doing it if he is doing good, others wouldn't (such as myself). IMO take the Scheifele approach and if he is doing good send him down and bring him in next season. But in the end its MT and MB who decide, and could very well just keep him around if he starts lighting things up

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01-21-2013, 10:34 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - __________

________ - Plekanec - __________

________ - Eller - Gallagher


whether hab fans want to admit it or not, the blueprint is there. Its Bergevins job to fill in the holes. We have a future 1st line center, we have an elite power forward/sniper and we have 3 centers who more importantly than anything..compete. Guys like Collberg and Bozon/Hudon could fill some of these voids as well.
I've said it quite a few times on here but I see Desharnais fitting really well with Pacioretty and Galchenyuk- two guys with size who can score. Desharnais complements them really well. My only concern is both Desharnais and Gallagher on the right side.

Collberg also fits really well with Pacioretty and Galchenyuk, but I'd slide him in with Plekanec, if he's still here in two years (he'll be 32).

What I would like to see is a sell-off of all our aging vets except Plekanec this season to prepare for the draft. And putting together some assets to get Corey Perry. Something around, dare I say it, PK and Gallagher. If we can get a top line player via trade before the draft and we have a chance to, I'd go for Seth Jones in the draft. That way we get our top defenseman and forward in one go.

Imagine:

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Perry
Hudon - Plekanec - Collberg
Leblanc - Eller - Kristo
Prust - White - Moen

Jones - x
Tinordi - Beaulieu
Emelin - Gorges

The problem is that that lineup misses PK. Something to think about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
What tells you that Galchenyuk will play center?
Bergevin has said that Galchenyuk's long-term position will be at center.

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01-21-2013, 10:40 AM
  #224
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And what if Galchenyuk lights up the league? do we move him down? That's the point of me saying it is dependant on his play.
In the amount of games he should have in the majors? As in 5 to 10 games? Highly doubtful. But even if he did...how many times have we seen someone just start lighting up the net in the first month of the year and just disappear for the rest of the season? Pretty much every year. I rather have him develop properly in the minors. It's not as if the team is going anywhere this year. If the team isn't going anywhere far this year why rush him?

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01-21-2013, 10:43 AM
  #225
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I think Plekanec has a lot to prove this season. His production has been in decline the past 2 seasons. Now Bergevin has attempted to put together a decent bottom 6 who maybe can relieve Plekanec of some of his checking duties, and he can get better match ups and has to improve his output. If he doesn't I think Bergevin might be shopping him this summer.

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