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Mark Scheifele sent back to Barrie Colts (OHL)

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Old
01-20-2013, 09:45 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by razorsedge View Post
I'm really torn on this subject. I don't think playing out of position on a grinder line is benificial for his development. But there isn't a spot for him in the top 6. I saw the potential in him and the ability to grow in the NHL this year, but again, no room for him on the scoring lines (until injuries start).

I say keep him up for the sake of fan interest.
That's a terrible reason. The fans in Winnipeg will be interested in the team with or without Scheifele this year.

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01-20-2013, 09:51 PM
  #77
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i dont mind if he stays up....as long as he remembers to take his skate guards off next time.

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01-20-2013, 09:51 PM
  #78
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He's ready. Sometimes you walk before you crawl.
yea I think you might be on to something here sully

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01-20-2013, 11:08 PM
  #79
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Maybe if this season started in October it would have been the right thing to send him back. He has dominated in Barrie and will not learn anything more by going back. Scheifele has done everything this organization has asked of him since being drafted. He deserves to be in Winnipeg. I would be pissed if I was him and I was sent back.

He is a center and not a winger. To play him on wing even with Kane/Jokinen is not really a benefit unless it is on the power play.
He should be centering the third line with Poni and Antro. No pressure of being in the top six and a great opportunity to get his feet wet.

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01-21-2013, 12:11 AM
  #80
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Once Again I am also a big time Supporter of the Jets and was honored when they came back!!! Most of you remember me from yesterday writing that opinion on Cheveldayoff and all but I believe that its best to send him back this year to play in Barrie and next year for sure give him every chance to crack the top 6. Alex Pietrangelo made the Blues twice and got sent down twice to Niagara and then got traded to Barrie to help them get all the way to the Finals that year. And the year after that he made the Blues and look at how dominant of a player he has become. I believe Schiefele will have that same treatment or at least should and next season watch out!!! This kid will become a great top 6 centre. I have watched him so many times in a Barrie uniform and I get more confident each time!!!

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01-21-2013, 12:21 AM
  #81
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I see nothing wrong with Schieflie staying up and playing the equivalent of 3rd line minutes (as he did last night) and as many others have pointed out that he will most likely be playing in a bigger role due to inevitable injuries. I do find it interesting that people want to send him back if he is not playing top 6 since all last year we had to hear how Coutourier was better because he was playing 3rd line center with the flyers
These are my feelings as well.

But I'm sure he would learn far more in Barie playing with children than playing with proven NHL veterans like Antro and Poni against star players.

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01-21-2013, 08:19 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by jiho View Post
Maybe if this season started in October it would have been the right thing to send him back. He has dominated in Barrie and will not learn anything more by going back. Scheifele has done everything this organization has asked of him since being drafted. He deserves to be in Winnipeg. I would be pissed if I was him and I was sent back.

He is a center and not a winger. To play him on wing even with Kane/Jokinen is not really a benefit unless it is on the power play.
He should be centering the third line with Poni and Antro. No pressure of being in the top six and a great opportunity to get his feet wet.
I agree with you. Noel need to give him sometime in winnipeg. Although I think he shouldnt play center.. especially in third line. Fourth line is good for him for now( atleast better than going back to Icecaps).

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01-21-2013, 08:44 AM
  #83
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I am a firm believer that kids can always continue learning in Junior, but, it can have more minimal effects and results come a certain point in time. For example, Jonathan Huberdeau, absolutely dominating the QMJHL, a man among boys, he has to be finished there by all indications. Scheifele, while perhaps not as offensively talented, appears to be nearly done with the Junior game himself, in my opinion.

Given the shortened 48 game season, Scheifele could spend a max 4 months in Junior if Barrie were to go to the Memorial Cup in May. But he could also be done in March, being only 2 months away. At this point for Mark, I'm just not so sure sending him back to Junior is the route to take so long as his play the next 4 games proves efficient. I think he's learned and blossomed so much the last couple years in the OHL that he is at a point now where he needs to take the next step and continue his development at the next level, be challenged to begin to live, train, eat and sleep like a Pro. His skating, balance, strength isn't improving by leaps and bounds in the OHL, but if he can get in the NHL and be monitored by the Jets staff day-to-day it could help improve some of his weaknesses. I think Mark Scheifele is as good as he's going to get from playing in the OHL. I think he's reached his peak there. Now, of course he may still learn a thing or two, but I also think he could take that next step and begin to form new habits at a higher level here.

My problem is, is given our forward depth we may not be able to offer Scheifele the roster spot he likely needs in order to stay here. We'll see what happens there. At the end of the day maybe Mark goes back to Barrie (still likely, I think) and spends half a season or who knows, a full season in the AHL next year. Perhaps he needs that.

Time will tell.

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01-21-2013, 09:35 AM
  #84
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Guerzy: good post. Agree with almost all, except the strength and balance thing in the OHL - he's been fine at center in the O, IMHO. He needs to be pushed to improve it further at the next level, as you're suggesting. Again. MO, and I definitely agree with the rest of your post.

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01-21-2013, 10:01 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
I think we can all fondly recall how Fergie sent Hawerchuk back to Cornwall for a couple of years and then let him earn his ice time by sticking him on a line with Tim Trimper and Jimmy Mann.
You almost gave my keyboard a coffee shower breaking out a Tim Trimper In fairness to the Jets management and Scheifele, he is not Hawerchuck...god I miss Fergie, RIP

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01-21-2013, 10:17 AM
  #86
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May just be me, but I don't really care if Scheifele falls down unless:

a) it puts him out of position.
b) it gets him hurt.

Ladd and Wheeler fall a lot too an they are fine.

Scheifele will benefit from more mass, but the impact of that will be in his ability to skate through traffic and standing and battling infront of the net. I am not worried about other his other wipeouts.

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01-21-2013, 10:26 AM
  #87
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To me, he is pretty much guaranteed to go back to Barrie. I just don't see the logic of blowing off a year of his entry level deal for a shortened season, where - let's face it - we're not really going anywhere.

About the only exception I could see is if he was able to step in to the Top-6 right now, and that's not the case. I actually think he's capable of playing in the bottom 6 - he's very smart without the puck - but that's probably not best for his development, either.

This doesn't sour me or him at all. I've been really, really impressed with him in Barrie and at the WJC and thought he played a solid game on Saturday. I think they walk away from Wellwood next year and he gets a fair crack for 2013-14.

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01-21-2013, 10:29 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Resurrection View Post
There's really no reason to play Scheifele outside the 5 games. Let him get some NHL experience, go on another run with the Colts, and let him bulk up a little and mature. The Jets aren't going to win the cup this year or even contend to make the playoffs (it kills me to write that) so don't burn a year needlessly like Edmonton did with Nuge. Otherwise why the heck did we sign Olli??
aaaaand I should have just quoted this. Oh well - typing is fun!

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01-21-2013, 10:44 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by jamiebez View Post
To me, he is pretty much guaranteed to go back to Barrie. I just don't see the logic of blowing off a year of his entry level deal for a shortened season, where - let's face it - we're not really going anywhere.

About the only exception I could see is if he was able to step in to the Top-6 right now, and that's not the case. I actually think he's capable of playing in the bottom 6 - he's very smart without the puck - but that's probably not best for his development, either.

This doesn't sour me or him at all. I've been really, really impressed with him in Barrie and at the WJC and thought he played a solid game on Saturday. I think they walk away from Wellwood next year and he gets a fair crack for 2013-14.

IMO, where the "team" is shouldn't factor in it all. That's the absolute worst way to deal with your players.

"hey kid, you've played great and you make us a better team, but due to circumstances not related to your play on the ice(you know, the whole reason why your here), you're not going to stick."

That's a great way to sour your prospects on your organization. If he makes us a better team, he should stick, no if's and's or but's. What makes the team better, and gives the team the best shot at winning should always be the right call.

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Originally Posted by Resurrection View Post
There's really no reason to play Scheifele outside the 5 games. Let him get some NHL experience, go on another run with the Colts, and let him bulk up a little and mature. The Jets aren't going to win the cup this year or even contend to make the playoffs (it kills me to write that) so don't burn a year needlessly like Edmonton did with Nuge. Otherwise why the heck did we sign Olli??
My main issue, as I've stated, I don't think his areas of weakness will be addressed by going with the colts. Furthermore, he's got nothing to prove down there, and finally, there's a very real chance he gets in more games if he stays up then goes down.

If this was the start of this season, I would have been far more in favor of sending him back down, but to me at this point, most of the "benefits" of sending him back to barrie are gone.

IMO at this point, whether he stays up or not is entirely based off his play and production over the next four games. If he can't hack it and struggles, then send him back, but if he can play, he should stay.

With the shortened season i think a lot of teams will be spreading their TOI a little more evenly, and so i'm even less concerned about the negatives of being in the bottom six, as I think this year bottom six players will get far more ice time then usual.

as long as he keeps getting over 10-12 es min's a game and hopefully with some special teams play, i think he should stay. If he can't earn those minutes then I agree he should be returned.

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01-21-2013, 10:56 AM
  #90
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I feel bipolar on this topic and honestly could debate myself on it all day

door number 1

Mark stays up gets his minutes and moves into a top 9 slot due to injury and steadily improves all year and the move pays off......or on the negative side he struggles at the pro level as the other players work their way into shape and the games speed up. Not saying that is bad and as was said earlier sometimes you need to crawl before you walk. The good thing about Mark staying up is even if he struggles it can only wreck you if you are not use to adversity and if you are an immature star type that is use to being ďthe manĒ on your team and can't adapt to the shock. Mark may have balance issues but for every weakness there is a strength and Schiefele appears to have mental toughness in spades. He took the road less traveled even getting into the OHL then rose like a rocket in his rookie OHL year up to the end of Jets training camp last year then faced a new set of speed bumps on the road and its only made him stronger. This challenge will not faze him in the least IMHO. Heck maybe itís just what he needs now to measure himself for what needs to get done this summer dry land wise. From what I saw in the 1st game he is not going to hurt the Jets this time around and itís not like we are currently overflowing with better options.

door number 2

Mark goes back to junior and hopefully takes his team deep into the playoffs. The prolonged off season allows him to gain more weight and be ready for training camp next fall. I can also see a route where he benefits from some time in the AHL early next year playing with a guy like Lowry on his line.

The good news this year is as long as Mark keeps positive and works hard I think both options work for him. Letís see what happens in the next 4 games because we still have quite a bit of hockey left for him to play.

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01-21-2013, 11:20 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I feel bipolar on this topic and honestly could debate myself on it all day

door number 1

Mark stays up gets his minutes and moves into a top 9 slot due to injury and steadily improves all year and the move pays off......or on the negative side he struggles at the pro level as the other players work their way into shape and the games speed up. Not saying that is bad and as was said earlier sometimes you need to crawl before you walk. The good thing about Mark staying up is even if he struggles it can only wreck you if you are not use to adversity and if you are an immature star type that is use to being ďthe manĒ on your team and can't adapt to the shock. Mark may have balance issues but for every weakness there is a strength and Schiefele appears to have mental toughness in spades. He took the road less traveled even getting into the OHL then rose like a rocket in his rookie OHL year up to the end of Jets training camp last year then faced a new set of speed bumps on the road and its only made him stronger. This challenge will not faze him in the least IMHO. Heck maybe itís just what he needs now to measure himself for what needs to get done this summer dry land wise. From what I saw in the 1st game he is not going to hurt the Jets this time around and itís not like we are currently overflowing with better options.

door number 2

Mark goes back to junior and hopefully takes his team deep into the playoffs. The prolonged off season allows him to gain more weight and be ready for training camp next fall. I can also see a route where he benefits from some time in the AHL early next year playing with a guy like Lowry on his line.

The good news this year is as long as Mark keeps positive and works hard I think both options work for him. Letís see what happens in the next 4 games because we still have quite a bit of hockey left for him to play.
I share your conflict. I started out more at # 2 option and have gradually moved to # 1. Balance issues aside Mark didn't look out out of place Saturday. He is very smart and gets his chances. If he was given a oportunity with more offensive line mates I think we would see good things from him this year. It's not like his presence disrupts a well oiled machine.

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01-21-2013, 11:20 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I feel bipolar on this topic and honestly could debate myself on it all day

door number 1

Mark stays up gets his minutes and moves into a top 9 slot due to injury and steadily improves all year and the move pays off......or on the negative side he struggles at the pro level as the other players work their way into shape and the games speed up. Not saying that is bad and as was said earlier sometimes you need to crawl before you walk. The good thing about Mark staying up is even if he struggles it can only wreck you if you are not use to adversity and if you are an immature star type that is use to being ďthe manĒ on your team and can't adapt to the shock. Mark may have balance issues but for every weakness there is a strength and Schiefele appears to have mental toughness in spades. He took the road less traveled even getting into the OHL then rose like a rocket in his rookie OHL year up to the end of Jets training camp last year then faced a new set of speed bumps on the road and its only made him stronger. This challenge will not faze him in the least IMHO. Heck maybe itís just what he needs now to measure himself for what needs to get done this summer dry land wise. From what I saw in the 1st game he is not going to hurt the Jets this time around and itís not like we are currently overflowing with better options.

door number 2

Mark goes back to junior and hopefully takes his team deep into the playoffs. The prolonged off season allows him to gain more weight and be ready for training camp next fall. I can also see a route where he benefits from some time in the AHL early next year playing with a guy like Lowry on his line.

The good news this year is as long as Mark keeps positive and works hard I think both options work for him. Letís see what happens in the next 4 games because we still have quite a bit of hockey left for him to play.
I can see both sides of it too and both make sense, so I really don't care what happens.

I expect him to get sent down, but I don't think either option will really hurt him.

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01-21-2013, 11:28 AM
  #93
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The key for me on Scheifele is that Jokinen is signed to a 2 year contract. Scheifele is obviously being groomed for that role of 1st or 2nd line centre, but Jokinen has that spot right now.

I'm pretty sure Schifele goes back to junior after playing out his 5 games.

Next year he probably plays most of the season in St, John's, being called up for injuries as needed, and probably full-time by the end of the year.

Then, in 2014-2015, he takes his regular place in the lineup and it's his for the next 5-10 years.

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01-21-2013, 11:30 AM
  #94
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He fell down a lot last year too (I remember really noticing it during last year's WJC) and whatever the reason, he hasn't improved on it in Barrie. Maybe the Jets can do a better job helping him overcome it.

I'm in the group that thinks he's learned everything he can in Junior. The next step for him is the NHL (the AHL would be better, but it isn't an option this season), but only if he can play top six minutes. If staying up means he plays less than 10 minutes a night with Slater and Thorburn, then he should go back.

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01-21-2013, 11:41 AM
  #95
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The key for me on Scheifele is that Jokinen is signed to a 2 year contract. Scheifele is obviously being groomed for that role of 1st or 2nd line centre, but Jokinen has that spot right now.

I'm pretty sure Schifele goes back to junior after playing out his 5 games.

Next year he probably plays most of the season in St, John's, being called up for injuries as needed, and probably full-time by the end of the year.

Then, in 2014-2015, he takes his regular place in the lineup and it's his for the next 5-10 years.
I don't know, I can see Scheifele and Jokinen co-existing together. Little played centre last year but I see him as more of a natural right wing. Jets aren't so deep there is no where for Scheifele to push himself up in the lineup.

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01-21-2013, 11:44 AM
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I don't know, I can see Scheifele and Jokinen co-existing together. Little played centre last year but I see him as more of a natural right wing. Jets aren't so deep there is no where for Scheifele to push himself up in the lineup.
Agreed.

Mostly i just don't think the books been written yet.

He can go either way, the next 4 games should determine that.

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01-21-2013, 12:12 PM
  #97
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IMO, where the "team" is shouldn't factor in it all. That's the absolute worst way to deal with your players.

"hey kid, you've played great and you make us a better team, but due to circumstances not related to your play on the ice(you know, the whole reason why your here), you're not going to stick."

That's a great way to sour your prospects on your organization. If he makes us a better team, he should stick, no if's and's or but's. What makes the team better, and gives the team the best shot at winning should always be the right call.
But I think that's part of the reason we're in the mess we're in with Burmistrov. Atlanta rushed him because the cupboard was bare, so even a raw 18-year old could make them a "better team" - even if "better" meant the difference between 14th and 13th I think he's probably better than Miettinen right now, so if that's the logic, he should stay.

But to me, "better" has to mean "significantly better" at this point in time - and it's only because I think we need to be careful with burning a year of an entry-level contract on our most valuable forward asset. That will come back to burn us in 3 years when we are hopefully contending.

I'm not worried about him pouting down in Barrie. I'm assuming Chevy presents the message to him the right way. I think he's good at that.

Even if he doesn't (I'm reminded of Jacques Martin calling the 19-year old Jason Spezza "a boy in a man's league") I think it's a good thing for prospects to literally have to steal a Top-6 job to crack the roster.

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01-21-2013, 01:05 PM
  #98
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But I think that's part of the reason we're in the mess we're in with Burmistrov. Atlanta rushed him because the cupboard was bare, so even a raw 18-year old could make them a "better team" - even if "better" meant the difference between 14th and 13th I think he's probably better than Miettinen right now, so if that's the logic, he should stay.

But to me, "better" has to mean "significantly better" at this point in time - and it's only because I think we need to be careful with burning a year of an entry-level contract on our most valuable forward asset. That will come back to burn us in 3 years when we are hopefully contending.

I'm not worried about him pouting down in Barrie. I'm assuming Chevy presents the message to him the right way. I think he's good at that.

Even if he doesn't (I'm reminded of Jacques Martin calling the 19-year old Jason Spezza "a boy in a man's league") I think it's a good thing for prospects to literally have to steal a Top-6 job to crack the roster.
While i can agree with some of that, i think the caliber of players on this team is high enough that if he's better then the bottom 3 or four forwards, then he's good enough to be up.

The "steal the top 6 spot" i would have agreed with at the start of the season, but at this point i don't think it's as important, and as long as he's clearing 10 minutes a game i think it's fine for him to stay up (provided he looks comfortable)

that's the main thing. At the end of the day, if he's playing well enough to be trusted with those minutes, then he should stay up. IMO that's pretty much the be all and end all of the discussion

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01-21-2013, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jamiebez View Post
But I think that's part of the reason we're in the mess we're in with Burmistrov. Atlanta rushed him because the cupboard was bare, so even a raw 18-year old could make them a "better team" - even if "better" meant the difference between 14th and 13th I think he's probably better than Miettinen right now, so if that's the logic, he should stay.

But to me, "better" has to mean "significantly better" at this point in time - and it's only because I think we need to be careful with burning a year of an entry-level contract on our most valuable forward asset. That will come back to burn us in 3 years when we are hopefully contending.

I'm not worried about him pouting down in Barrie. I'm assuming Chevy presents the message to him the right way. I think he's good at that.

Even if he doesn't (I'm reminded of Jacques Martin calling the 19-year old Jason Spezza "a boy in a man's league") I think it's a good thing for prospects to literally have to steal a Top-6 job to crack the roster.
New to your forum here. Interesting comments and interested in further regarding the statement on Burmistrov.
Us "oldtimer" Barrie Colts season ticket holders are of course watching closely with what is going to happen with Sheif.
For what it's worth out there, consensus here is that Little, Burmistrov and Telegin were beyond Sheifele's current level when they left.
Let him grow in the AHL is the opinion of the majority.

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01-21-2013, 03:19 PM
  #100
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If they want to see what 55 has, they need to play him with someone other than 22 and 19.

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