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Old
01-21-2013, 08:38 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Stevekento19 View Post
I missed a few days of hf and don't really want to go through all those pages. Can somebody tell me if TPS has been on here and shared anything new?
No he hasn't, I think he last said in the other O'Reilly thread that he was headed to California over the weekend, but would be back posting more regularly through this season.

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Old
01-21-2013, 09:16 AM
  #52
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No, but now I'm afraid the situation is much more complicated than "just" 500K extra / season.

It's a shame it has gone this far. Perhaps both O'Reilly's agent and Avalanche management thought the lockout would last longer and didn't work hard enough to close the deal in time. Now the whole negotiation probably is infected and stressful, I fault both parties for this.

Don Meehan has represented many star players during the years, that's for sure, now he is representing Ryan O'Reilly and yes, Meehan is as a tough one. Hmmm, I wonder how much percentage Meehan will get from the contract?

I have said this many times. But what worries me the most is actually the owners and how much they are willing to spend on the team, I have had my doubts several seasons. I believe Dater has written a couple of articles about this too.
I'm positive it is about more than money. As long as Stastny and Duchene are around ROR will be the #3 center. Both are just more offensively talented than ROR. The Avs were going to have a decision to make about their center situation by the end of next season anyway, but ROR is forcing their hand to make it now. Since he is the one forcing it, I expect he will be the one shipped out. Which that really sucks as I would rather have Stastny be the odd one out as he is older and regressed a bit.

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01-21-2013, 09:28 AM
  #53
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The thing is though that I don't see the Avs keeping the three centers since they need big changes in defence asap so I would figure one of the three would have been gone in 2-3 years.
So if O'Reilly just would have accepted a bridge offer he could have cashed out as a top-6 center either here if Staz or Dutchy was traded away or then where he is traded to in two years time.

And with his work-ethic I would've been surprised if ROR would've been the one traded. And also, ROR would've maybe played a 3C role here this year (and the next) but he would've had the likes of Downie, McGinn, Hejduk as his wingers, which is better than what most third liners have.

I'm just sad it turned this ugly, when it probably could've been (and should've been) avoidable.

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01-21-2013, 09:31 AM
  #54
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I don't think he comes up with the stuff himself. I think he buys it from a Chinese idiom factory.

Some of it is just gibberish

"Love isn't personal or selective you either have it or you don't when the mind is free of Extertal psychology it's egoism love is."
I can't wait until MY SON makes the NHL so I can become a groovy hipster too. Maybe that's the reason RoR is asking for so much $$$$....his dad is a 'life coach' for cryin' out loud!!

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01-21-2013, 09:35 AM
  #55
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I guess I just view it a little differently. Signing in Russia wasn't so much a ploy to me as it was his way of playing with his brother. While I don't agree with the decision, I sympathize with him as I too would want to play with my brother if in his shoes.

Can it really hurt to give him 500k more short term? I suppose it depends on what the negotiation room is like with Sherman.
I disagree. Signing in Russia and putting a 2 year - $8M dollar (rumored) FLOOR on the contract to beat by the Avs, IS in my opinion, a ploy.

What it does is, it takes away the opportunity for the Avs to offer him a 1 year - $3.5M deal for this shortened season and have him further prove his worth as a $4M or $5M player. They could then continue to negotiate during and after the season on a multi-year extension.

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01-21-2013, 09:38 AM
  #56
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Everyone has already agreed his dad's comments are crazy.
He reminds me of really old people who don't understand technology, but one day they learn and just go crazy with it.

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01-21-2013, 09:41 AM
  #57
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He reminds me of really old people who don't understand technology, but one day they learn and just go crazy with it.

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Old
01-21-2013, 09:45 AM
  #58
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I'd give him 8 mill for 2 seasons. I think he is worth that.

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01-21-2013, 09:52 AM
  #59
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Loved the ending.

Again, 1 year - 3 million.

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01-21-2013, 09:53 AM
  #60
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1 year, thirty pieces of silver, get to kiss Stastny.

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01-21-2013, 10:13 AM
  #61
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I'm positive it is about more than money. As long as Stastny and Duchene are around ROR will be the #3 center. Both are just more offensively talented than ROR.
I'm extremely tired of comments about Statsny and Duchene being more offensive talanted than O'Reilly.

This is your own personal opinion, not necessarily the truth.

Last season O'Reilly was better than both of them and also proving to be a very good linemate to Landeskog, a great match.

O'Reilly and Landeskog are NOT the same kind of players as Statsny and Duchene, that's for sure, they are different type of players, I can agree with that.

Many differences, RoR and Lando are not very flashy but they do bring heart, grit and toughness. Even do Landeskog is a Swede I think both of them play a very Canadian style of hockey, power forwards but both of them being great at both ends of the ice.

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01-21-2013, 10:28 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by 21 View Post
I'm extremely tired of comments about Statsny and Duchene being more offensive talanted than O'Reilly.

This is your own personal opinion, not necessarily the truth.

Last season O'Reilly was better than both of them and also proving to be a very good linemate to Landeskog, a great match.

O'Reilly and Landeskog are NOT the same kind of players as Statsny and Duchene, that's for sure, they are different type of players, I can agree with that.

Many differences, RoR and Lando are not very flashy but they do bring heart, grit and toughness.
Everything is opinion. Saying Crosby is better offensively than Parros is an opinion, but doesn't make it less true. Duchene has had a 67 point season (with 27 goals) and Stastny has had multiple 70 points seasons and 1 season with less than 20 goals (he was injured. ROR has yet to score more than 55 points and has never broke 20 goals. ALL signs point to Stastny and Duchene being better offensively.

ROR barely had more points than Stastny last season. Stastny played 2 less games, didn't have the best winger on the team next to him, scored more goals, and had a much better shooting percentage. Duchene was hurt and got juggled around for pretty much the whole season, I think he is much closer to the first two years of his career than last year.

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Old
01-21-2013, 10:28 AM
  #63
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Piece from Elliotte Friedman:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...ned-three.html

Quote:
Ryan O'Reilly, Colorado Avalanche

The Colorado Avalanche don't talk about this stuff. A request for comment was politely declined. The Denver Post's Adrian Dater reported O'Reilly turned down a five-year, $17-million offer last summer. Colorado pulled that proposal and came up with two years for $7 million, which went nowhere.

Colorado's reputation is the organization can be very tough negotiators. It was among the NHL's highest-paying teams during its glory years, but the last three seasons have seen it among the lowest.

O'Reilly remains in Russia, although he missed a game last weekend with a foot injury. His situation reminds me a lot of Michael Peca's in Buffalo. O'Reilly likely won't ever be a 100-point scorer. He had 55 points last season, more than his first two years combined, but he is a fierce, fierce competitor who can do a lot of critical things for you. He took more defensive-zone faceoffs than any other Avalanche player and faced the toughest competition among the team's centres (credit: behindthenet.ca).

The problem is that leads to major disputes between teams and agents over exactly how to financially quantify those things. Peca, for example, was traded because he and the Buffalo Sabres could not agree.

"He's definitely a No. 2 centre," one GM said of O'Reilly. "And with the proper wingers, he could be a No. 1 guy."

Those guys get paid well, especially if they can score. But again, O'Reilly is four years from unrestricted free agency.

The Avalanche operate in secrecy, so it's hard to predict what they are going to do. When they dealt Chris Stewart, many other teams didn't know he was even available. Barring a major change in philosophy from either side, this one could be heading in that direction.

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01-21-2013, 10:29 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I'm positive it is about more than money. As long as Stastny and Duchene are around ROR will be the #3 center. Both are just more offensively talented than ROR. The Avs were going to have a decision to make about their center situation by the end of next season anyway, but ROR is forcing their hand to make it now. Since he is the one forcing it, I expect he will be the one shipped out. Which that really sucks as I would rather have Stastny be the odd one out as he is older and regressed a bit.
I agree completely, I would have rather seen Stastny moved once Duchene and O'reilly had outgrown him. I think ROR was shortsighted here, I don't think he would have been stuck as a "3rd line center" for very long, especially considering he was already playing first line minutes.

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01-21-2013, 10:34 AM
  #65
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Thanks for posting the article. I agree that ROR is a number 2 center right now - I don't approve of his tactics but this guy is absolutely one of our most valuable players, and I wish they would have just offered him a slightly more lucrative deal rather than letting things go south like this.

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01-21-2013, 10:34 AM
  #66
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Colorado's reputation is the organization can be very tough negotiators. It was among the NHL's highest-paying teams during its glory years, but the last three seasons have seen it among the lowest.
Thank you, somebody highlighting the same concern as me, finally.

This low spending tendency is worrying, that's what I'm trying to say.

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01-21-2013, 10:36 AM
  #67
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The GM saying that he could be a #1 guy with the proper wingers speaks volumes about his value. A #2A or #1B center will bring in quite a ransom, even if he isn't signed (simply because he is a RFA for 4 more seasons, if he had only 1 RFA season left it would be an issue). There just are not many centers of his age and abilities on the market.

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01-21-2013, 10:40 AM
  #68
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I would hate to lose the kid. But, he's part of the reason why this thing has gone south. The Avs have proven time and time again that they can be fair when it comes to contracts and they will reward the player if they are worth it.

David Jones' deal comes to mind, as does Varlamov's.

Those guys are both getting good compensation during recently signed deals.

I just would wish that the Avs would pony up and make a deal here. I mean, at least give him Jones-like money. It only makes sense.

If they don't and if this sours the relationship, I at least feel positively that we would be able to get some nice pieces in return if a trade was the final ending to this mess.

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01-21-2013, 10:40 AM
  #69
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Thank you, somebody highlighting the same concern as me, finally.

This low spending tendency is worrying, that's what I'm trying to say.
Avs will be up against the cap in two-three years and then you'll be damned happy and not worried, that Avs negotiate hard with their players.

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01-21-2013, 10:43 AM
  #70
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Duchene has had a 67 point season (with 27 goals) and Stastny has had multiple 70 points seasons and 1 season with less than 20 goals (he was injured. ROR has yet to score more than 55 points and has never broke 20 goals. ALL signs point to Stastny and Duchene being better offensively.
Well, well, they are different type of players, we can all agree on that.

Anyway, for me RoR is better and more valuable player than Statsny and Duchene.

The toughness, grit, heart, offensive and defensive play RoR and Lando showed together was beautiful, extremely hard working players. If you combine thes ingrediences with some more offensive talanted players then you have a winning team.

But right now we don't have RoR and Duchen and Statsny have lots of thing to prove regarding offensive capability.

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01-21-2013, 10:43 AM
  #71
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Perhaps both O'Reilly's agent and Avalanche management thought the lockout would last longer and didn't work hard enough to close the deal in time.
Negotiations were not allowed during the lockout.

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01-21-2013, 10:44 AM
  #72
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Negotiations were not allowed during the lockout.
Aha, thanks, learning something new everyday is a good thing. :-)

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01-21-2013, 11:00 AM
  #73
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Avs will be up against the cap in two-three years and then you'll be damned happy and not worried, that Avs negotiate hard with their players.
Three questions, I'm being lazy. ;-)

1. Current NHL cap?

2. New NHL cap limit and from when?

3. Current total salary cap for Avalanche?

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01-21-2013, 11:01 AM
  #74
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Three questions, I'm being lazy. ;-)

1. Current NHL cap?

2. New NHL cap limit and from when?

3. Current total salary cap for Avalanche?
http://capgeek.com/avalanche

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01-21-2013, 11:04 AM
  #75
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Great, thanks.

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