HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Eller already in the doghouse?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-21-2013, 12:52 PM
  #101
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWalkThroughWalls View Post
Well, referring to Malkin-Crosby-Neal makes no sense. Habs do not have this kind of players.

But we do have a bunch of 60 to 70 pts scorers. Plekanec, Gionta, Bourque, Desharnais, Cole, Pacioretty. That's also what we all expect Eller to produce in a near future.

We cannot expect from this actual team (unless Galchenyuk becomes a superstar or maybe from Pacioretty ) a 1 point per game player. All we can expect is to have 2 good lines of 60 pts/season players.

We had 1 line of it last season, don't break it, try to create a 2nd one.

I also don't understand how DD stuns the progression of anyone! I mean, nobody gave him the 1st line duty by charity. He won it last year almost as a rookie. Now, it's up to anybody to steal it from him.
You're really not getting the point.. Instead of comparing the quality of the examples I'm giving you should try reasoning.

Bourque and Gionta are not 60-70 points producers and DD, Cole and patches never touched 70. And this is not the point again.

I think we can all agree that Cole and Patches are of much greater quality than all the other winges we have and this is what should be understood.

Team's try to create two-three scoring duo's (See Malkin-Neal or Perry-Getzlaf...) and they try to create another one with KNOWN commodity, who's gonna ''hope'' in a damn 48 game season ? There's no time for this. We've had an 82 games (83 with this one) season of misery because of the simple fact(well there was more than that but let's keep it to that point.) that we couldn't draw attention with our other 3 lines. Just look at Boston. 3(even 4) really dangerous lines. Same goes for NYR, Pitts, CHI, PHI.. and all the good teams out there.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 12:53 PM
  #102
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
C'mon now. Are you comparing our 1st line players to those Pens and Hawks elite players? The latter can turn a mediocre line into a good line. Not so with our players on the first line.
I'm not comparing anyone. The quality of our players vs the quality of theirs doesnt stand for nothing here.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 12:54 PM
  #103
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
So 3 different head coaches in a row are ruining Eller's carreer ?

Look at how many decent wingers have been traded in that time. A line of AK/Eller/SK might work better then what Thierrien is experimenting with now. Same thing happened last year when we traded Cammalleri and AK and then wondered why Pleks was struggling. Bourque and Moen, really people.

Frozenice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:00 PM
  #104
Poulet Kostopoulos
Registered User
 
Poulet Kostopoulos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I'm not comparing anyone. The quality of our players vs the quality of theirs doesnt stand for nothing here.
Well, the quality of players is relevant because you can make good lines by splitting those elite players -- the elite player almost surely will make any line better. Whereas, if you split our players in the 1st line, who are not elite players, you break the best line but there is no solid reason to believe they'll make the new lines they are in significantly better.


Last edited by Poulet Kostopoulos: 01-21-2013 at 01:05 PM.
Poulet Kostopoulos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:00 PM
  #105
Habtchum*
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I'm not comparing anyone. The quality of our players vs the quality of theirs doesnt stand for nothing here.



Intelligent comments will only be answered from now on. This is a damn message board.
I'm sorry but IF 3 diffrent NHL coaches with over 60 years of experience have not seen Eller's potential so far, I doubt a guy behind a keyboard can affirm that these headcoaches are incompetent duds.

Habtchum* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:04 PM
  #106
Craig71
Registered User
 
Craig71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,870
vCash: 500
Relax people, Eller will find his game, he just needs to be on a line with uncle Travis.

Craig71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:05 PM
  #107
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
I'm sorry but IF 3 diffrent NHL coaches with over 60 years of experience have not seen Eller's potential so far, I doubt a guy behind a keyboard can affirm that these headcoaches are incompetent duds.
Why?

Martin had weird old fashioned ideas that he was rigid about and he devoted most of his time trying to make the Gomez/Gionta line work to very little success.

Cunneyworth - NHL coach?

Thierrien - too soon to say but DD and Pleks are ahead of him for better or worse.

Frozenice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:06 PM
  #108
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
I'm sorry but IF 3 diffrent NHL coaches with over 60 years of experience have not seen Eller's potential so far, I doubt a guy behind a keyboard can affirm that these headcoaches are incompetent duds.
Lets be fair here, Cunneyworth was not an NHL coach.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:06 PM
  #109
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Well, the quality of players is relevant because you can make good lines by splitting those elite players -- the elite player almost surely will make any line better. Whereas, if you split our players in the 1st line, which are not elite players, you break the best line but there is no solid reason to believe they'll make the new lines they are in better.
The quality of OUR player is relative to OUR team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
I'm sorry but IF 3 diffrent NHL coaches with over 60 years of experience have not seen Eller's potential so far, I doubt a guy behind a keyboard can affirm that these headcoaches are incompetent duds.
Good, because we all know RC was a competent NHL coach and that he wasnt a puppet.

We also have a total of 1 game with MT.

Now it leads only to JM who had Eller for his first years(He actually did a pretty good job at first, remember how Eller was good in the playoffs ?)

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:07 PM
  #110
YMCMBeaulieu
A$AP MICHEL
 
YMCMBeaulieu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
I'm sorry but IF 3 diffrent NHL coaches with over 60 years of experience have not seen Eller's potential so far, I doubt a guy behind a keyboard can affirm that these headcoaches are incompetent duds.
Those NHL coaches have made a combined one Stanley Cup final, its not like we're talking about elite coaches here.

YMCMBeaulieu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:08 PM
  #111
HTTP 400 Bad Request
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 847
vCash: 13362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
You're really not getting the point.. Instead of comparing the quality of the examples I'm giving you should try reasoning.

Bourque and Gionta are not 60-70 points producers and DD, Cole and patches never touched 70. And this is not the point again.

I think we can all agree that Cole and Patches are of much greater quality than all the other winges we have and this is what should be understood.

Team's try to create two-three scoring duo's (See Malkin-Neal or Perry-Getzlaf...) and they try to create another one with KNOWN commodity, who's gonna ''hope'' in a damn 48 game season ? There's no time for this. We've had an 82 games (83 with this one) season of misery because of the simple fact(well there was more than that but let's keep it to that point.) that we couldn't draw attention with our other 3 lines. Just look at Boston. 3(even 4) really dangerous lines. Same goes for NYR, Pitts, CHI, PHI.. and all the good teams out there.
I said the problem wasn't the 1st line but secondary scoring. Not sure why you come back with this.

You said our 1st line is a burden. I said we should instead work on assembling a productive 2nd line since the 1st one showed they can score. The 1st line center spot wasn't open last year. It belonged to Plekanec (and Gionta and Cammalleri were supposed to be 1st line wingers). Guess what? Desharnais stole it (as did MaxPac and Cole). That's how it works in hockey.

If Pac-DD-Cole fail to score, than split them. Otherwise, keep them together and fix the rest.

HTTP 400 Bad Request is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:08 PM
  #112
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Look at how many decent wingers have been traded in that time. A line of AK/Eller/SK might work better then what Thierrien is experimenting with now. Same thing happened last year when we traded Cammalleri and AK and then wondered why Pleks was struggling. Bourque and Moen, really people.
Cammy and AK were already struggling before the trade and AK played with Eller anyways. This makes no sense.

OneSharpMarble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:10 PM
  #113
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IWalkThroughWalls View Post
I said the problem wasn't the 1st line but secondary scoring. Not sure why you come back with this.

Where I disagree is that you said our 1st line is a burden. I said we should instead work on assembling a productive 2nd line since the 1st one showed it can score. The 1st line center spot wasn't open last year. It belonged to Plekanec (and Gionta and Cammalleri were supposed to be 1st line wingers). Guess what? Desharnais stole it (as did MaxPac ansd Cole). That's how it works in hockey.

If Pac-DD-Cole fail to score, than split them. Otherwise, keep them togheter and fix the rest.
Because the secondary scoring didnt happen because we had two quality players in a total of 9 spots. Eller and Plekanec are/were playing with scrubs. Sorry I should've been a bit more direct.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:15 PM
  #114
Poulet Kostopoulos
Registered User
 
Poulet Kostopoulos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
The quality of OUR player is relative to OUR team.
Then, why did you bring up the Pens and the Hawks in the first place?

Edit: But even relative to OUR team, those players on their own aren't elite enough to make any other line significantly better. (Significantly better = new lines more than make up for the lost of the 1st line.)


Last edited by Poulet Kostopoulos: 01-21-2013 at 01:22 PM.
Poulet Kostopoulos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:21 PM
  #115
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Then, why did you bring up the Pens and the Hawks in the first place?
Make up an illustration of what we should do to win.

By your way of thinking we shouldn't even play because they have better player.

A team composition is not different from a team to another because of their players quality.
Edit to your edit: This doesnt mean you should just stick them on the first line and ''hope'' for a win in a 48 game season when the other teams have better players and could do the same thing.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:27 PM
  #116
missthenet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 376
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Eller is made to be a center. He's completely lost on the freaking wing. He's made to control the damn play, like he's doing when he play's center. For how long have we waited for a big gritty talented center ? God.. Now we have him and he's not good enough so we might move him to the wing.



How many ice time did JM give to Eller ? What about PP time ?
Now do the same thing for RC and now for MT(can't really say anything about him after one game though..)
Yes they all misused him. Coaches lose their jobs easily in this league, they all try to save their damn job. It's understandable to go with DD wich is a known commodity right now than just give more time to Eller for his developement and wait a year for him to flourish.
I am tired of seeing players development slowed in Montreal, going back 8 years there are enough players that could form 2 or 3 good lines yet here we are still in the same position as we were when Gainey took over. Still rebuilding, still not using players to their potential and then running them out of town for basically nothing. I cannot believe when we traded Halak for Eller and some guy now playing in the ECHL that was our best return available, to see Eller continue to struggle from one regime to another after seeing the same things jappen to SK, Grabo, and others that sometime we will actually pass the torch to a new generation of players.

missthenet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:32 PM
  #117
Mrb1p
Registered User
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by missthenet View Post
I am tired of seeing players development slowed in Montreal, going back 8 years there are enough players that could form 2 or 3 good lines yet here we are still in the same position as we were when Gainey took over. Still rebuilding, still not using players to their potential and then running them out of town for basically nothing. I cannot believe when we traded Halak for Eller and some guy now playing in the ECHL that was our best return available, to see Eller continue to struggle from one regime to another after seeing the same things jappen to SK, Grabo, and others that sometime we will actually pass the torch to a new generation of players.
Blame the fans themselves.
Because we ask for wins over and over again, team management is focused on winning now and not in a year or two.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:37 PM
  #118
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,536
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasculio View Post
Am I the only one thinking that Desharnais played like crap saturday ? I like that Gally is playing center in practice, and especially like that Gallagher is playing with him, and Prust too, but Eller playing with Blunden, that I don't like, especially since I thought he wasn't as bad as Desharnais...

But yeah, whatever helps getting a better pick...
I think its unfair to single out desharnais on saturday. There were plenty of underperforming forwards. Plekanec was arguably worse.

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:45 PM
  #119
habtastic
Registered User
 
habtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai via MTL
Country: India
Posts: 9,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasculio View Post
Am I the only one thinking that Desharnais played like crap saturday ? I like that Gally is playing center in practice, and especially like that Gallagher is playing with him, and Prust too, but Eller playing with Blunden, that I don't like, especially since I thought he wasn't as bad as Desharnais...

But yeah, whatever helps getting a better pick...
Only got to the first page and it seems most people are like WTF and justifiably IF that's what MT is going with.

Did Eller win us the game on Saturday? Nope. Was he one of the few competent ones. Yup. Look at the foals that were scored against us vs the PKs where he made a difference. Everyone is taking time to get adjusted so first of all evaluating after 1 game, for arguably a player with some of the best talent (call that overrating, I don't care, it's my opinion) and a strong work ethic is stupid and second of all, if you're going to juggle the lines like we usually do in a 10 game slump, I agree, get DD out there - he was horrrrible. I like DD too, but if after one game you wanna pick someone, it's him (or even Patches and Cole). Eller between those two would be interesting as an experiment. Anyway, I'd be surprised if things changed that much. We need to get wins before trying to experiment too much and two rookies + Prust seems imprudent to me.

habtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:47 PM
  #120
FlyingRat
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 431
vCash: 500
This is what happens when the inmates are running the asylum.

Dark times are ahead if we have a GM who can't recognize the value of Subban and a coach that can't recognize the value of Eller.

FlyingRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:49 PM
  #121
habtastic
Registered User
 
habtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai via MTL
Country: India
Posts: 9,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I think its unfair to single out desharnais on saturday. There were plenty of underperforming forwards. Plekanec was arguably worse.
no he wasn't. Plekanec wasn't even bad. It's hard to praise anyone except Carey after that game (maybe Prust too), but the Pleks line was the only one that looked ready to play. The snowshower thing is a joke (first game, not even a real snowshoer, wow NHL, wow). Didn't they score on THAT PP? We were missing out best PK guys who until then had done pretty well. But in that game itself, Plekanec>>>DD (cuz the latter was awful, he'll come around).

habtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:50 PM
  #122
One Man Rock Band
Slater's Gonna Slate
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,035
vCash: 500
Don't worry guys, once Subban comes back.. he'll probably move Pleks to the 3rd line, DD to the second and give Bouillon the #1 centre spot. Cause that's just how MT rolls.

In all seriousness, I do like the defensive pairings more for this game though.

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Diaz
Kaberle - Bouillon

Although, knowing MT, Kaberle - Bouillon will be the #2 pairing.

One Man Rock Band is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:50 PM
  #123
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
no he wasn't. Plekanec wasn't even bad. It's hard to praise anyone except Carey after that game (maybe Prust too), but the Pleks line was the only one that looked ready to play. The snowshower thing is a joke (first game, not even a real snowshoer, wow NHL, wow). Didn't they score on THAT PP? We were missing out best PK guys who until then had done pretty well. But in that game itself, Plekanec>>>DD (cuz the latter was awful, he'll come around).
I thought Pleks and Bourque were decent. Gionta was awful, imo. Regardless of the goal he scored.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:55 PM
  #124
One Man Rock Band
Slater's Gonna Slate
 
One Man Rock Band's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I thought Pleks and Bourque were decent. Gionta was awful, imo. Regardless of the goal he scored.
Pleks was solid defensively.. offensively he didn't do much more than Gionta.

Bourque looked fantastic in all three zones.

One Man Rock Band is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:06 PM
  #125
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 21,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Don't worry guys, once Subban comes back.. he'll probably move Pleks to the 3rd line, DD to the second and give Bouillon the #1 centre spot. Cause that's just how MT rolls.

In all seriousness, I do like the defensive pairings more for this game though.

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Diaz
Kaberle - Bouillon

Although, knowing MT, Kaberle - Bouillon will be the #2 pairing.
While those pairings look better...
It just gives credance to the idea that once Subban is in, Diaz is out, unless he really wants to play Subban with Bouillon on what would be the first pairing, thus, 22 mins for Bouillon.

If anything, with Subban back, Kaberle should be out, and Diaz should be the fixture with Bouillon on the 3rd line. I certainly don't want a Diaz/Kaberle pairing other than on the power play.

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:50 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.