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Old
01-21-2013, 01:19 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Luongo might not even get a 2nd and a prospect and yet Bachman could.
I also recall a goalie who wasn't valued very highly around the league going for a return like that... Riddled with injuries, inconsistent, and had 'bad vision'. Who was that again? Hmm...

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01-21-2013, 01:19 AM
  #77
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He's still a top 10 goalie in the league.
Yeah back in 2010.

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01-21-2013, 01:20 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
I also recall a goalie who wasn't valued very highly around the league going for a return like that... Riddled with injuries, inconsistent, and had 'bad vision'. Who was that again? Hmm...
Stars knew Vish was a bust, and it was a 4th round pick. Lehtonen had also had a lot more success than Bachman did at that point.

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01-21-2013, 01:22 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cin View Post
I also recall a goalie who wasn't valued very highly around the league going for a return like that... Riddled with injuries, inconsistent, and had 'bad vision'. Who was that again? Hmm...
Which goes to the original point of why Bachman probably wouldn't land a meaningful return.

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01-21-2013, 01:22 AM
  #80
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Lehtonen had already proven he had the talent to be a starter. The issue was whether his body could hold up. He was also highly drafted and while I don't think that should factor into how GM's look at a player I think it does.

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01-21-2013, 01:24 AM
  #81
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This is the most pointless conversation in the history of the Stars HF board.

Bachman is not getting a 2nd round pick + a defensive prospect anytime soon.

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01-21-2013, 01:26 AM
  #82
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Can't believe this thread exploded over Bachman's worth.

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Old
01-21-2013, 08:32 AM
  #83
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^Can't believe we're worrying about our goaltending situation. It's literally the only spot where we are excellent.

Back to arguing about how Robidas sucks please.

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Old
01-21-2013, 08:54 AM
  #84
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^Can't believe we're worrying about our goaltending situation. It's literally the only spot where we are excellent.

Back to arguing about how Robidas sucks please.

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01-21-2013, 10:12 AM
  #85
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Hey let's get back to talking about the fact that GMJN/HCGG haven't made the correct decision on fixing the defensive depth of this team.

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01-21-2013, 11:24 AM
  #86
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Some scatter shooting, only read the first page so far-

Wandell sucks. Just get rid of him, bury him, whatever you need to do. He's proven that he's not going to develop into anything. Play someone like Sceviour instead.

Depressed about the D. Small and the best players are only adequate. Robi needs to go, or at least get 3rd pairing minutes. Goligoski, man I regret that trade. He's no good defensively and his scoring even dried up. Dude is a #5 D, should not getting first pairing minutes. I like the Dillon-Larsen pairing. Optimistically I hope it develops into a legit second caliber pairing. Both need to develop at least some offense though. I trust those two the most, plus Daley. I sure hope Oleksiak comes on fast, and hope they can find some sort if solid vet with size to eat big minutes by next season.

Frustrated by the way Gully gives forward minutes and line combos. Hope that starts to change. At least there's the sign of the "4th" line catching up to the "3rd"(HAHA) in minutes. When Benn is back do this(being realistic, they don't go SUPER YOUNG as some mentioned earlier-

Loui-Roy-Jagr
Whitney-Benn-Ryder(needs good linemates and someone to set him up)
Smith-Eakin-??/Sceviour (MorrowVincour/Chiasson-he's really coming on offensively)
Morrow-Fiddler-Nystrom/Garbutt

No damn idea what to do with order of D pairings, other than guys like Robidas and Benn need to stay out of the top 4.

Rome-Daley
Dillon-Larsen
Goose-Robidas (terrible pair but this lowers their minutes)
Maybe need to throw Oleksiak in there somewhere.......


Last edited by Shady12: 01-21-2013 at 11:41 AM.
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01-21-2013, 01:31 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Shady12 View Post
Some scatter shooting, only read the first page so far-

Wandell sucks. Just get rid of him, bury him, whatever you need to do. He's proven that he's not going to develop into anything. Play someone like Sceviour instead.

Depressed about the D. Small and the best players are only adequate. Robi needs to go, or at least get 3rd pairing minutes. Goligoski, man I regret that trade. He's no good defensively and his scoring even dried up. Dude is a #5 D, should not getting first pairing minutes. I like the Dillon-Larsen pairing. Optimistically I hope it develops into a legit second caliber pairing. Both need to develop at least some offense though. I trust those two the most, plus Daley. I sure hope Oleksiak comes on fast, and hope they can find some sort if solid vet with size to eat big minutes by next season.

Frustrated by the way Gully gives forward minutes and line combos. Hope that starts to change. At least there's the sign of the "4th" line catching up to the "3rd"(HAHA) in minutes. When Benn is back do this(being realistic, they don't go SUPER YOUNG as some mentioned earlier-

Loui-Roy-Jagr
Whitney-Benn-Ryder(needs good linemates and someone to set him up)
Smith-Eakin-??/Sceviour (MorrowVincour/Chiasson-he's really coming on offensively)
Morrow-Fiddler-Nystrom/Garbutt

No damn idea what to do with order of D pairings, other than guys like Robidas and Benn need to stay out of the top 4.

Rome-Daley
Dillon-Larsen
Goose-Robidas (terrible pair but this lowers their minutes)
Maybe need to throw Oleksiak in there somewhere.......
Thank you for staying on topic!

It's definitely puzzling how he chooses his line combos. I really hope somebody intervenes quickly, so we can get onto a winning path.

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01-21-2013, 01:53 PM
  #88
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It makes me want to kick puppies when icing is called on the opposition and Gully decides to put Morrow-Fiddler-Nystrom on for the offensive zone draw against the tired defenders. Even when the top line hasn't been out in a good 2-3mins.

I gave him slack last season due to being a rookie coach, but if his questionable decisions continue, I hope GMJN steps up and fixes it.

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01-21-2013, 02:01 PM
  #89
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By "fix" do you mean fire?

I don't think we're suited for helicopter coaching from the GM, and even if we were, Joe is definitely not the guy to do it.

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01-21-2013, 02:06 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady12 View Post
Some scatter shooting, only read the first page so far-

Wandell sucks. Just get rid of him, bury him, whatever you need to do. He's proven that he's not going to develop into anything. Play someone like Sceviour instead.

Depressed about the D. Small and the best players are only adequate. Robi needs to go, or at least get 3rd pairing minutes. Goligoski, man I regret that trade. He's no good defensively and his scoring even dried up. Dude is a #5 D, should not getting first pairing minutes. I like the Dillon-Larsen pairing. Optimistically I hope it develops into a legit second caliber pairing. Both need to develop at least some offense though. I trust those two the most, plus Daley. I sure hope Oleksiak comes on fast, and hope they can find some sort if solid vet with size to eat big minutes by next season.

Frustrated by the way Gully gives forward minutes and line combos. Hope that starts to change. At least there's the sign of the "4th" line catching up to the "3rd"(HAHA) in minutes. When Benn is back do this(being realistic, they don't go SUPER YOUNG as some mentioned earlier-

Loui-Roy-Jagr
Whitney-Benn-Ryder(needs good linemates and someone to set him up)
Smith-Eakin-??/Sceviour (MorrowVincour/Chiasson-he's really coming on offensively)
Morrow-Fiddler-Nystrom/Garbutt

No damn idea what to do with order of D pairings, other than guys like Robidas and Benn need to stay out of the top 4.

Rome-Daley
Dillon-Larsen
Goose-Robidas (terrible pair but this lowers their minutes)
Maybe need to throw Oleksiak in there somewhere.......
I think Wandell ends up a 4th liner who can fill in on the 3rd line and probably won't produce, but won't look lost either.
It's early, but his faceoff game doesn't seem to have translated well.
I'd really like to see him on the wing; if he doesn't improve, his contract is up at the end of the season if they choose to go that route.

My opinion on the defensive situation is that they have a really solid goaltender, and I think building around him would be a huge step in the right direction. Defense should really be top-priority going forward. Scoring goals is fun; winning is more fun. Kari with a solid defense in front of him would be a sight to see. Also, having a good defense would likely mean their defensive strategy won't be putting as many people in front of the net as possible and letting them shoot as many times as they want hoping that if it gets through, Kari will save it. It's so boring to watch. Lots of stopping after the catch and starting over.

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01-21-2013, 02:07 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
By "fix" do you mean fire?

I don't think we're suited for helicopter coaching from the GM, and even if we were, Joe is definitely not the guy to do it.
Yes I did mean fire, bad wording on my part. Definitely wouldn't want Joe on the bench

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01-21-2013, 02:50 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Backups?

Schneider/Luongo (no idea which is which)
Bernier
Elliott (even with his inflated stats)
Harding
Khudobin (trust me on these two, seen them play countless times and both are better than Bachman)
Biron (arguable, hard to tell with the Rangers' system though)
Neuvirth
Giguere (he's better but not more valuable)
Vokoun

Only 9. Some of them arguable. Bachman is a top 10 back-up though.

5 worst starters?

Crawford
Mason/Bob
Dubnyk (guy is total garbage)
Clemmensen (sp?)
Reimer

^ Would take any of the 10 listed above over these 5.
Disagree. I like Dubnyk

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01-21-2013, 03:33 PM
  #93
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This is the most pointless conversation in the history of the Stars HF board.
Seriously.

This is a transition season.


A transition season of which 2 games have been played.

This team isn't going to compete for anything. They're not supposed to.

Vets were brought in to (in order of importance) 1) mentor the young players and prevent the young players from being rushed into roles they're not ready for (see: Oleksiak, J., Smith, R., Chiasson, A., Nemeth, P.), 2) provide entertainment value, and 3) meet the Stars' salary floor requirements.

If Mike Shanahan were here he'd say that this season is to evaluate the guys who are here. That includes the coaching staff and the front office.

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01-21-2013, 03:39 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Seriously.

This is a transition season.


A transition season of which 2 games have been played.

This team isn't going to compete for anything. They're not supposed to.

Vets were brought in to (in order of importance) 1) mentor the young players and prevent the young players from being rushed into roles they're not ready for (see: Oleksiak, J., Smith, R., Chiasson, A., Nemeth, P.), 2) provide entertainment value, and 3) meet the Stars' salary floor requirements.If Mike Shanahan were here he'd say that this season is to evaluate the guys who are here. That includes the coaching staff and the front office.
And to at least give us a chance of making the playoffs by helping to fix the pp.

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01-21-2013, 04:52 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Seriously.

This is a transition season.
How is it that it took four pages before someone finally said this?

The majority of coaches in the league, if not all, will play veterans heavily for 1-2 reasons. The first being afraid of them faltering putting their own job in jeopardy. This was seen here with Tippett a few years ago with players like Eriksson. The second idea, and what is probably the right idea, is to have the young players earn their playing time. Gulutzen has seemed to allude as to this is what his thinking is when the line combos were announced last week. The idea looks to be in practice from these two games as well.

Keep Oleksiak down in the AHL. Bring him, Chiasson, and the rest along slowly. Don't rush the prospects. Sadly that means more Robidas, but it's not like with a reshuffle of the lines this team will suddenly be contenders for the Cup.

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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
Have people seriously already forgotten how good Bachman is? Am I the only one who watches our prospects? haha.

Turned out right about Dillon.

Was right about Glennie.

Right about Vincour.

Right about Roman.

Knew Vish would bolt to the KHL.

Right about Kari turning his ship around.

Even called several trades and signings now. It's interesting how the ones who don't know the sport too well, are the most vocal. Haha, welcome to the internet

Anybody have anything else to add to the Systems and coaching discussion?
Yeah, remind me again. What were your thoughts on Trevor Ludwig? The book is still out on three of the players you just listed. There is no way Bachman could get a pick and a prospect too. It would be no more than a 3rd right now, but at the deadline probably a 2nd.

Bachman was great in his fill-in during the Kari injury, but he started to lose steam at the end of it. He's a solid goalie, but it was inevitable for him to come back down to earth. The team (and defense) ahead of him just isn't very good. Kari can keep it up for a full season, because he's in a whole different class than Bachman.

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01-21-2013, 08:04 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Seriously.

This is a transition season.


A transition season of which 2 games have been played.

This team isn't going to compete for anything. They're not supposed to.

Vets were brought in to (in order of importance) 1) mentor the young players and prevent the young players from being rushed into roles they're not ready for (see: Oleksiak, J., Smith, R., Chiasson, A., Nemeth, P.), 2) provide entertainment value, and 3) meet the Stars' salary floor requirements.

If Mike Shanahan were here he'd say that this season is to evaluate the guys who are here. That includes the coaching staff and the front office.
I agree with all of this, especially the last part. It's really too bad we couldn't bring in a guy like John Davidson to be President of Hockey Operations.

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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
That was more at Eriksson on the 3rd line than anything. Whatever line he's on is pretty much always the 1st, that's how it's been for the past 4-5 years.
I was going to bring this up in a different thread but since you already mentioned it here...I feel like this is the year where that changes. Since his breakout season, Loui's line has always been the de facto #1 line. When Benn starts playing and the season really gets going I feel like there's a good chance those two are split up, at which point it will be hard for me to say either line is the "top line", rather it may change from game to game.

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01-21-2013, 08:17 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
By "fix" do you mean fire?

I don't think we're suited for helicopter coaching from the GM, and even if we were, Joe is definitely not the guy to do it.
Gulutzan makes me miss Crawfard. That's a TERRIBLE thing.

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01-21-2013, 08:20 PM
  #98
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Gulutzan makes me miss Crawfard. That's a TERRIBLE thing.
Now, that's just crazy talk. Crawford was the king of misusing assets.

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01-21-2013, 09:35 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Rune Forumwalker View Post
Bachman was great in his fill-in during the Kari injury, but he started to lose steam at the end of it. He's a solid goalie, but it was inevitable for him to come back down to earth. The team (and defense) ahead of him just isn't very good. Kari can keep it up for a full season, because he's in a whole different class than Bachman.
Not to dredge this Bachman value thing up again, but Calgary just traded their backup and got all of a 7th rounder in return.

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01-21-2013, 11:13 PM
  #100
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Now, that's just crazy talk. Crawford was the king of misusing assets.
Goes back further than that, though.....wasn't Tippett more or less FORCED into giving a young Loui Eriksson ice time?

Seems like no matter who's behind the bench, our coach is overly reliant on veterans.

Now, granted, when those veterans are guys Jaromir Jagr, exceptions can be made, but there's gotta be at least SOME signs that the coach has faith in the up and coming talent.

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