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Old
01-21-2013, 01:04 AM
  #26
Raffl House
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Get used to seeing JVR not use his size for a month, have a great game where he's dominant and you think he's finally realized what he can do...and then he reverts back to the norm.

My understanding of Schenn based on what Leafs fans were saying is that we should get used to him taking out of position penalties because of his stone feet.
Look at the penalty he took today tripping the Sabres player: two Sabres enter the zone 2v2; Schenn, for an unexplainable reason, takes a stride TOWARD the same player Timonen is defending against instead of remaining square. He realizes this is incorrect after his man picks up the pass...

He clearly isn't a fast player, gets beaten to the outside, makes up for it with a diving stick play which misses the puck. Sabres go on PP, they score.

Out of position...stone feet...

You can teach positioning. If he moved inside to give the player the outside lane, then fine. But if he would do that against a Crosby, Stamkos, etc...he wouldn't even have time to dive. The puck would have been behind Bryz faster than you can say "Schenner!"

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01-21-2013, 06:15 AM
  #27
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Been happy with Schenn so far. Looks like the drop in weight improved his skating a bit, now it's only sub-par instead of atrocious

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01-21-2013, 06:59 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Get used to seeing JVR not use his size for a month, have a great game where he's dominant and you think he's finally realized what he can do...and then he reverts back to the norm.

My understanding of Schenn based on what Leafs fans were saying is that we should get used to him taking out of position penalties because of his stone feet.
His problems are his skating is suspect, and he tries for the hit too much, and that takes him out of position. A lot of the time here in T.O he would make a great hit, and that's all fun and good to make a nice hit but by the time he makes the hit, the puck is already gone and the play has moved on and he gets caught.

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01-21-2013, 08:48 AM
  #29
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Really encouraged so far, he seems a very 'natural' player at times, makes some great instinctive plays and showed some ability to play the puck, not seen many silly passes, not a great number of brilliant ones, but not many giveaways.

If he cuts out the bad positioning I see him being a very good D man, and with Pronger and Kimo teaching him he is in a great place to do just that, two of the most positionally sound D men I have ever seen.

I loved JVR, he could be insane if he puts everything together, but I like the trade more by the day, mainly as Schenn seems to 'want it' more every play than JVR ever will, JVR always seemed too 'nice' in a way, was amazing when used him size, but hardly ever did, and lost a lot of battles due to it.

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01-21-2013, 09:03 AM
  #30
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may just be his time of the month but JVR actually looked nothing like a perimeter player. Drove the net and stuck it out there. Took a penalty for cross checking a guy.

Generated a good chance on a drive, and gave Price hell.

Still didn't look mean though.

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01-21-2013, 10:01 AM
  #31
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I really really liked Schenn in his first 3 seasons. I thought he showed levels of being about as dominant a shutdown dman as you can be. I'll never forget Boudreau trying to match up Ovechkin with anyone BUT Schenn.

However, last years Luke Schenn was probably one of the single worst seasons I've ever seen from a dman. Absolutely dreadful and it wasn't because he was out of position, it was because he couldn't control the puck or skate in general.

I'm cheering for him and hope he can turn it around because he played like he had no dignity out there.

Also has JVR always had a net presence game? Seeing him hitting goalies and scrapping with the D is really refreshing as a Leafs fan. He did look noticeably out of shape though in his first game.

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01-21-2013, 10:02 AM
  #32
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Maybe it's just me, but I'm not impressed at all by Luke Schenn. Knowing that he really doesn't have the tools or the instincts to be a true 2-way threat, I expected his defensive game to be a bit more refined. It's really not. He skates like he has lead in his boots, his positioning is poor, he's taken a few bad penalties, and his first-passes out of the zone leave a ton to be desired too.

He has the ability to develop into a good shutdown defenseman, but in the new NHL I just don't think those guys are anywhere near as valuable as the type of player JVR has the potential to become.

Upper echelon shutdown defensemen hit free agency pretty regularly, but top notch power-forwards never do. At this point in his development, there are/were several much cheaper free agents (Scott Hannan for example) that provide you similar performance.

I think we reached big time on Luke Schenn just because his brother plays for us.

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01-21-2013, 10:04 AM
  #33
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Another thing you guys can look forward to is that the fact that he is almost never injured. If you look up stats and see that he hasn't played an 82 game season he was probably scratched. Super durable guy, you almost never see him taking menacing hits

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01-21-2013, 10:15 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Also has JVR always had a net presence game? Seeing him hitting goalies and scrapping with the D is really refreshing as a Leafs fan. He did look noticeably out of shape though in his first game.
He's shown flashes of a net presence game in the past, but he's never really sustained it. In all fairness to JVR, he was doing a great job of crashing the net early last year and was scoring @ a nearly a point per game through the first 19 games of the season. At that point, he sustained the first of his many injuries that season (and he was already playing through a hip issue), and he was never really the same player the rest of the 2011-2012 season.

If JVR continues to crash the net for you, you're going to get yourself one heck of a player. He might be a little out of shape right now, but once he shakes off the lockout legs he can really fly.

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01-21-2013, 10:41 AM
  #35
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I don't think Schenn's in game shape yet. It was pretty noticeable in the 3rd period of the Pens game. Didn't really notice yesterday because he was in the box.

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01-21-2013, 11:19 AM
  #36
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Yeah I think both Schenn and jvr have the lockout legs. Jvr in his first game didn't look all that impressive, he looked very slow and sluggish imo, although the net crashing was something that was impressive. I also watched one of the Flyers games and seeing Schenn deflect the puck into his own net made me chuckle a bit, he did that too us a couple times. Either way I think we need at least 20 games this season to see how they do. Can't really complain as they are respectively on new teams and have only played for 1 week as a team (camp, games).

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01-21-2013, 11:23 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donmega View Post
Yeah I think both Schenn and jvr have the lockout legs. Jvr in his first game didn't look all that impressive, he looked very slow and sluggish imo, although the net crashing was something that was impressive. I also watched one of the Flyers games and seeing Schenn deflect the puck into his own net made me chuckle a bit, he did that too us a couple times. Either way I think we need at least 20 games this season to see how they do. Can't really complain as they are respectively on new teams and have only played for 1 week as a team (camp, games).
JVR's physical gifts are what will impress you with him, if anything does. His hockey vision is somewhat limited, though when he sees a play he does have the hands to make it usually. I think with a bit more time he'll be a really solid producer if he's used in a way that compliments his skill set.

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01-21-2013, 11:30 AM
  #38
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I think the flyers end up winning this trade. I don't see either player becoming a star type player, but I think Schenn has the ability to improve upon what he currently is moreso than jvr. I think Schenn can be a solid #2-#3 guy. He just needs to work on his skating.

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01-21-2013, 12:00 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by BleedsToronto View Post
Another thing you guys can look forward to is that the fact that he is almost never injured. If you look up stats and see that he hasn't played an 82 game season he was probably scratched. Super durable guy, you almost never see him taking menacing hits
he was injured his first season, knee on knee with OV(dirty play by the russian)

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01-21-2013, 12:10 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by FlyingHigh28 View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not impressed at all by Luke Schenn. Knowing that he really doesn't have the tools or the instincts to be a true 2-way threat, I expected his defensive game to be a bit more refined. It's really not. He skates like he has lead in his boots, his positioning is poor, he's taken a few bad penalties, and his first-passes out of the zone leave a ton to be desired too.
The positioning and penalties are an extension of the poor skating, but the first pass is bullocks. He moves the puck well for a guy that's allegedly a stay-at-home defender.

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01-21-2013, 01:18 PM
  #41
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The positioning and penalties are an extension of the poor skating, but the first pass is bullocks. He moves the puck well for a guy that's allegedly a stay-at-home defender.
The first pass thing isn't bollocks at all. For a stay-at-home defender his first passes haven't been terrible, but they also haven't been great. They're mediocre.

If we pinhole Schenn into a no-offense defenseman, then MAYBE his passing is OK, but I thought the whole point of this trade was that he allegedly had the potential to be more than just an all defense defenseman, no?

If not, then we basically traded for a stay-at-home defenseman who routinely gets caught out of position and doesn't have the speed to recover.

And compared to others on our team, his first passes are definitely poor. He's well behind Coburn, Timonen, Meszaros, etc.

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01-21-2013, 03:21 PM
  #42
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Let's just all agree that he'd look better if he didn't look like he had concrete blocks strapped to his legs.

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01-21-2013, 03:29 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHigh28 View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not impressed at all by Luke Schenn. Knowing that he really doesn't have the tools or the instincts to be a true 2-way threat, I expected his defensive game to be a bit more refined. It's really not. He skates like he has lead in his boots, his positioning is poor, he's taken a few bad penalties, and his first-passes out of the zone leave a ton to be desired too.

He has the ability to develop into a good shutdown defenseman, but in the new NHL I just don't think those guys are anywhere near as valuable as the type of player JVR has the potential to become.

Upper echelon shutdown defensemen hit free agency pretty regularly, but top notch power-forwards never do. At this point in his development, there are/were several much cheaper free agents (Scott Hannan for example) that provide you similar performance.

I think we reached big time on Luke Schenn just because his brother plays for us.
disagree here. his positioning needs some work, but i wouldn't say it's poor. the penalty on the play from the outside against the Sabres was a glaring mistake, but he'd been OK before that. But his first-passes have been fine actually, and i've noticed that he's pretty good at getting his stick in passing lanes out front of the net.

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01-21-2013, 03:57 PM
  #44
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I think Beef hit the nail on the head here.

His lack of quickness in space gets him out of positon a lot of times and he has to scramble/ take penalties to get back into position.

I think he is going to a solid d man who takes a lot of penalties because he is out of position. I hope he adjusts to the NHL game speed one day and is able to sit back more and afford himself more time to adjust to a play.

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01-21-2013, 04:53 PM
  #45
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I think Beef hit the nail on the head here.

His lack of quickness in space gets him out of positon a lot of times and he has to scramble/ take penalties to get back into position.

I think he is going to a solid d man who takes a lot of penalties because he is out of position. I hope he adjusts to the NHL game speed one day and is able to sit back more and afford himself more time to adjust to a play.
Given the two games we've seen of him, I feel like you guys are jumping to conclusions. He took a few penalties yesterday. One of them was a weak hooking penalty that had nothing to do with footspeed, and the other was the tripping call which was about a few inches from him getting the puck with his stick first...

I am not going to go ahead and say I've been blown away by his play thus far, but I like his physical play and he should have an assist on the Feds goal that didn't count. He had a few decent shots yesterday that I wasn't expecting from his game at all.

All in all, I am very happy with him so far, and playing with Timonen will only make him better.

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01-21-2013, 06:16 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
Let's just all agree that he'd look better if he didn't look like he had concrete blocks strapped to his legs.
Seriously! He's so slow. There were a couple of times in the Buffalo game where I thought, "oh the D will get there first no problem." Nope. Because it was Schenn.

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01-21-2013, 06:43 PM
  #47
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Seriously! He's so slow. There were a couple of times in the Buffalo game where I thought, "oh the D will get there first no problem." Nope. Because it was Schenn.
Grossmann has been the same way. Beat out on at least two icing call that I can remember.

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01-21-2013, 06:51 PM
  #48
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My only real issue with Schenn as a Leaf wasn't even his puckhandling or decision making. It was the fact that he can't turn around. Seriously, if a guy is coming down his wing and puts on a bit of speed, it's comical to watch Schenn try to react.

Equally comical is his skating style. He just has the look of a middle linebacker who hasn't tried on a pair of skates in over a decade. He's still an effective player, but it's hilarious to watch.


Should put emphasis on that. Even with the weight cut, the dude is a middle linebacker on skates. Big as a bull and equally strong.

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01-21-2013, 07:11 PM
  #49
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Schenn will learn to use angles to cope with speed to the outside, Pronger will teach him

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01-21-2013, 08:12 PM
  #50
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I know Luke isn't the fastest player but I dont see the ''concrete skates'' that people are talking about. I mean, Pronger wasn't fast either. Not comparing the two but my point is you don't need to have a lot of speed to have a good career. Especially if you're a defensive d man. I mean what do people expect from him? To fly around like Mesz or Coburn? He's just not that type of player. If he can improve on his positioning and awareness, the whole speed/agility thing won't be an issue.

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