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The Habs have way too many veteran forwards

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07-10-2012, 04:59 PM
  #26
Slew Foots
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
Again, without trying to sound like your best friend, the arguments you are making here are very persuasive, especially the part about being top heavy in forward salaries at the expense of Dmen salaries.
Look no further than our three biggest wastes of cap space-forwards Gomez, Gionta, and Bourque.
LOL, I appreciate the support.

However, it seems as though the majority of people appear to believe that signing more veteran forwards will help the team win a cup.

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07-10-2012, 05:02 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Stjonnypopo View Post
I won't get into the veteran argument but a fairly common theme we've seen from cup winners is that they have big impact players playing on their ELCs, which means that their cap hit is really low for their skill level, so the team has been able to absorb the cap hit of a rental towards the end of the season.
This is very true. Which is why I don't think there's any way the Habs can win a cup with their current roster. In order to position themselves to make a run in 2-3 years, I'd like to see them give a guy like Eller a more prominent role on the team right away. Also, they should really give guys like Galchenyuk, Gallagher and Leblanc a fair shot at landing top-9 roles as of this season, so that they are ready to become key contributors by then.

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07-10-2012, 05:09 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
LOL, I appreciate the support.

However, it seems as though the majority of people appear to believe that signing more veteran forwards will help the team win a cup.
The point in signing another veteran forward is not necessarily to win a cup this year, but to give the kids more development time without being rushed. That will help their development and potentially help us win a cup in 3-4-5 years.

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07-10-2012, 05:18 PM
  #29
Ryan O'Byrne
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I'm curious at how many over the age of 28 forwards the hawks ,Bruins ,and la had the two years before they won the cup helping the younger players

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07-10-2012, 05:24 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
LOL, I appreciate the support.

However, it seems as though the majority of people appear to believe that signing more veteran forwards will help the team win a cup.
Yes it does, but they are entitled to their beliefs.....misguided as they may be. Lol
Most of these guys were clamoring for 40 year-olds Whitney and Jagr. Their reasoning being- they are mere one year stop gaps and necessary for Pleks sanity. I can't fault that logic, but I also don't agree with it.
If we are serious cup challengers, then I could buy this argument, but as long as we have Guys like Gomez, Bourque, and often injured Gionta in first two lines, we aren't cup ready, so I say, better to give fringe kids a chance to see what they have while playing with the big boys.

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07-10-2012, 05:26 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
Who said it's a bad thing?

Having too many veterans playing forward may be a sub-optimal allocation of cap space. The last few cup winners didn't have this many veteran forwards, and their core consisted of established forwards who were younger.

1. It takes roster spots away from younger forwards who could give you almost the same performance at a fraction of the cost.

2. It requires too much spending on forwards at the detriment of spending on veteran D-men, where the discrepancy in performance between veteran D-men and young D-men is much greater than the discrepancy in performance between veteran forwards and young forwards.

3. While a number of expensive declining forwards will be off the books in 2 years, they are currently taking playing time away from younger players who could have used the playing time to develop more rapidly in order to become key contributors by then.
It's an interesting way to look at it, but I don't think there's a magic formula you need to go by. I think if anything there's a lack of balance, but not necessarily because of age but it's a concern in some ways.

For one thing, of these veteran forwards, two are centers, but one is relatively young and on a decent contract, the other is a complete waste of cap space. Plekanec might be taking time from younger players, but Desharnais and Eller are still getting time and neither can do what Plek does right now. Gomez is a veteran, but just awful in every way and expensive.

On the other hand, it's more concerning that our allocation of resources to the wings, involves a lot of money committed to two older wingers in Gionta and Cole. But a bigger problem is there's a gap between those two and our other top 6 wingers, Pacioretty and the prospects. The other veteran wingers are disposable role players.

There is a lack of balance, but there's also a lack of talent. That's what makes veterans like Jagr and Doan appealing, they add the wing talent this team desperately needs without committing long term contracts to. Yes the last few cup winners had forwards in the middle of their primes as opposed to the end, but a youth movement of all kids is just as problematic.

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07-10-2012, 05:40 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
Yes it does, but they are entitled to their beliefs.....misguided as they may be. Lol
Most of these guys were clamoring for 40 year-olds Whitney and Jagr. Their reasoning being- they are mere one year stop gaps and necessary for Pleks sanity. I can't fault that logic, but I also don't agree with it.
If we are serious cup challengers, then I could buy this argument, but as long as we have Guys like Gomez, Bourque, and often injured Gionta in first two lines, we aren't cup ready, so I say, better to give fringe kids a chance to see what they have while playing with the big boys.
Dont want our kids to have them as "examples", no thanks.

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07-10-2012, 06:23 PM
  #33
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Agreed, lets get rid of Plekanec, Gionta, Gomez, Bourque!

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07-10-2012, 07:08 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Leblanc's first game, Cole gave him his credit card and told him to get this parents to the game.
I love hearing about **** like that!

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07-10-2012, 08:19 PM
  #35
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You can't win with only youth and you can't win with only veterans, you need to have a balance, and I think we have that balance

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07-10-2012, 09:32 PM
  #36
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The Habs have NOBODY ready to step up and play so who do you replace the Vets with? Palushaj?? Engqvist?? HELL NO!

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07-10-2012, 10:14 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Dont want our kids to have them as "examples", no thanks.
Good point.

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07-10-2012, 10:15 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
The Habs have NOBODY ready to step up and play so who do you replace the Vets with? Palushaj?? Engqvist?? HELL NO!
Can Palushaj really be worse than Gomez (2 goals) or Bourque (-18) last year?

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07-12-2012, 10:34 AM
  #39
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MB's plan is to probably tank it up for the next 2 years (until the gomez and gionta contracts are up)

Then... we'll hopefully have Gally and MacKinnon on the team to bring us the cup!






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07-12-2012, 01:38 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Ryan O'Byrne View Post
I'm curious at how many over the age of 28 forwards the hawks ,Bruins ,and la had the two years before they won the cup helping the younger players
This. Although I understand where the OP is coming from, it doesn't make sense to compare our forward group with those of the last three Stanley Cup champs. Our current group isn't constructed to compete for the Cup, it's that simple. We're nowhere near that. To say that we have too many veteran forwards to compete for the Cup is accurate, but a moot point. Where we're at, it's great to have a solid group of character, veteran players to mentor, affect culture change, and provide time for our young prospects to develop. The roster is naturally going to get younger over the next couple of years, so there's no sense in panicking over how many veterans we have right now. IMO, it's the best situation you could be in give where we're at organizationally. Let the young guys develop and play some respectable hockey in the meantime.

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01-21-2013, 03:06 PM
  #41
Slew Foots
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It's an old thread, but I know many aren't fond of new thread pollution, so I figured I'd bump this thread to pimp my latest blog post: http://joehabs.blogspot.ca

Flame away, friends!

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