HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Lupul extended - 5 years x 5.25m

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-21-2013, 12:31 PM
  #601
Chandrashekhar Limit
ORANJE 4 LYFE
 
Chandrashekhar Limit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Waterloo, ON
Country: Bangladesh
Posts: 16,089
vCash: 500
You are never getting Getzlaf/Perry signed @ 6.26 cap hit for 8 years. Maybe if you do 15 years, which is impossible.

It will take something between 7.5-8.5 M.

Chandrashekhar Limit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 01:01 PM
  #602
GordieHoweHatTrick
Registered User
 
GordieHoweHatTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 13,211
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinto View Post
I'm sorry but that's absolute BS.

If people are concerned about his injury history, that's one thing. But he's always been a very talented player.
I know. I'm surprised people still overlook his talent. He was ALWAYS talented, just often sidelined

Anyway, if he stays healthy I'm sure most people won't complain because he will produce.

GordieHoweHatTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:13 PM
  #603
Volcanologist
Spark up a Dubas
 
Volcanologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kessel Apocalypse
Country: Germany
Posts: 20,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Still don't understand what the rush was .
If he puts up a PPG this year, how much do you think he asks for then?

Volcanologist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:31 PM
  #604
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 6,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
If he puts up a PPG this year, how much do you think he asks for then?
5.75? Close to 6?

Hey, if the Leafs wait 20 games, and Lupul puts up 20ish points and 11 or 12 goals, then what does he ask for? A lot more than 5.25.

This contract suggests that the team has complete confidence in Lupul's ability to carry on last season's form, and if that's the case, then I'm fine with it.

The longer the Leafs let it wait, the greater the likelihood that the Leafs would be having to pay Lupul something closer to what he would get on the open market (close to 6).

FINALLY - we don't know what sort of trades, if any, Nonis has his fingers in. I'll tell you what though - it's easier to convince a guy with an NTC, or a future free agent, to join your team, when you have key members of your core locked up long term, than with uncertainty.

Tak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 02:32 PM
  #605
TheOneArmedMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 955
vCash: 500
Great signing. Just hope Lupul can continue his great play from last season. If Vanreimsdyk can develop well he will be a great asset too.

TheOneArmedMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 03:15 PM
  #606
Stu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: England
Posts: 745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
You are never getting Getzlaf/Perry signed @ 6.26 cap hit for 8 years. Maybe if you do 15 years, which is impossible.

It will take something between 7.5-8.5 M.
8.5? that's almost crosby/malkin money. i think if both of them want out of anaheim and have interest in playing together we could get them for a slight discount, maybe 6.5 each with decent term. The reality is that with the cap going down, even temporarily, the owners have to try and use that as a bargaining chip when it comes to signing UFA's. Not to mention if Scrivens/Reimer (one or both) can be lights out this season, we can sell ourselves HARD as a team that may realistically be able to compete sooner rather than later.

Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 03:24 PM
  #607
bunjay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu View Post
8.5? that's almost crosby/malkin money. i think if both of them want out of anaheim and have interest in playing together we could get them for a slight discount, maybe 6.5 each with decent term. The reality is that with the cap going down, even temporarily, the owners have to try and use that as a bargaining chip when it comes to signing UFA's. Not to mention if Scrivens/Reimer (one or both) can be lights out this season, we can sell ourselves HARD as a team that may realistically be able to compete sooner rather than later.
Corey Perry has 175 goals in 392 games over the last 5 seasons. He's one season removed from his 98 points Richard and Hart year. I don't doubt that he will command 8+ mil if he makes it to the open market, it's not often that a player of his calibre is available.

bunjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 04:27 PM
  #608
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,290
vCash: 2411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
If he puts up a PPG this year, how much do you think he asks for then?
And if he doesn't we're stuck with him for 5 years . Lupes had a big year in RW's wide open offensive system which inflated everyone offensive numbers , why do people think he can duplicate those numbers playing under RC's more defensive style .

Even if he puts up close to a point a game i still don't see him over 6 mil a year on the open market especially with the potential of the cap going down after next years fixed number .

Basically Nonis gambled saving at the most 750 grand against maybe not even keeping him next year . I don't see the risk/reward is this type of deal working in our favour . Nonis gave him the deal because outside of Kadri we don't have anyone that projects out to be a top 6 forward in our system . After 4 years of Burke restocking the cupboard that's pathetic .

My main point is i would have waited and if it cost me a few hundred grand more then it would have been worth the patience to see if Lupal was worth this type of investment .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 04:29 PM
  #609
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,183
vCash: 500
Top-25 PPG last year:

1. S.Crosby (25, $8.7/12yrs): 1.64
2. E.Malkin (25, $8.7/1yrs): 1.45
3. C.Giroux (24, $3.8/1yrs): 1.21
4. S.Stamkos (22, $7.5/3yrs): 1.18
5. I.Kovalchuk (29, $6.7/12yrs): 1.08
6. J.Spezza (29, $7.0/2yrs): 1.05
7. N.Backstrom (25, $6.7/yrs): 1.05
8. J.Lupul (29, $5.3/5yrs): 1.02
9. J.Neal (25, $5.0/5yrs): 1.01
10. P.Kessel (25, $5.4/1yrs): 1.00
11. J.Tavares (22, $5.5/5yrs): 0.99
12. H.Sedin (32, $6.1/1yrs): 0.99
13. J.Eberle (22, $6.0/6yrs): 0.97
14. J.Toews (24, $6.3/2yrs): 0.97
15. P.Elias (36, $6.0*/0yrs): 0.96
16. E.Karlsson (22, $6.5/6yrs): 0.96
17. M.St.Louis (37, $5.6/2yrs): 0.96
18. P.Datsyuk (34, $6.7/1yrs): 0.96
19. M.Hossa (33, $5.3/8yrs): 0.95
20. R.Whitney (40, $4.5/1yrs): 0.94
21. J.Thornton (33, $7.0/1yrs): 0.94
22. P.Sharp (31, $5.9/4yrs): 0.93
23. D.Sedin (32, $6.1/1yrs): 0.93
24. M.Gaborik (30, $7.5/1yrs): 0.93
25. A.Kopitar (25, $6.8/3yrs): 0.93

The only guys cheaper than Lupul are 2 guys who haven't hit UFA age yet, and Neal is barely cheaper, while Giroux is due a massive raise a year from now.

zeke is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 04:33 PM
  #610
Chandrashekhar Limit
ORANJE 4 LYFE
 
Chandrashekhar Limit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Waterloo, ON
Country: Bangladesh
Posts: 16,089
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
And if he doesn't we're stuck with him for 5 years . Lupes had a big year in RW's wide open offensive system which inflated everyone offensive numbers , why do people think he can duplicate those numbers playing under RC's more defensive style .

Even if he puts up close to a point a game i still don't see him over 6 mil a year on the open market especially with the potential of the cap going down after next years fixed number .

Basically Nonis gambled saving at the most 750 grand against maybe not even keeping him next year . I don't see the risk/reward is this type of deal working in our favour . Nonis gave him the deal because outside of Kadri we don't have anyone that projects out to be a top 6 forward in our system . After 4 years of Burke restocking the cupboard that's pathetic .

My main point is i would have waited and if it cost me a few hundred grand more then it would have been worth the patience to see if Lupal was worth this type of investment .
No - if he doesn't work out, we amnesty his contract in 2014. Nonis took a gamble for 130 games.

Chandrashekhar Limit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 04:34 PM
  #611
Jerkini
Registered User
 
Jerkini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu View Post
8.5? that's almost crosby/malkin money. i think if both of them want out of anaheim and have interest in playing together we could get them for a slight discount, maybe 6.5 each with decent term. The reality is that with the cap going down, even temporarily, the owners have to try and use that as a bargaining chip when it comes to signing UFA's. Not to mention if Scrivens/Reimer (one or both) can be lights out this season, we can sell ourselves HARD as a team that may realistically be able to compete sooner rather than later.
In no world will you get Perry or Getzlaf for $6.5 million.

Jerkini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 04:36 PM
  #612
Chandrashekhar Limit
ORANJE 4 LYFE
 
Chandrashekhar Limit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Waterloo, ON
Country: Bangladesh
Posts: 16,089
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu View Post
8.5? that's almost crosby/malkin money. i think if both of them want out of anaheim and have interest in playing together we could get them for a slight discount, maybe 6.5 each with decent term. The reality is that with the cap going down, even temporarily, the owners have to try and use that as a bargaining chip when it comes to signing UFA's. Not to mention if Scrivens/Reimer (one or both) can be lights out this season, we can sell ourselves HARD as a team that may realistically be able to compete sooner rather than later.
If they wanted to take a discount to play together, you are looking at 7.5 minimum. I still think that would be unlikely. Parise/Suter got that on a 10+ year term. I think it will take 8 for us to sign both.

Chandrashekhar Limit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 04:43 PM
  #613
achtungbaby
Registered User
 
achtungbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Top-25 PPG last year:

1. S.Crosby (25, $8.7/12yrs): 1.64
2. E.Malkin (25, $8.7/1yrs): 1.45
3. C.Giroux (24, $3.8/1yrs): 1.21
4. S.Stamkos (22, $7.5/3yrs): 1.18
5. I.Kovalchuk (29, $6.7/12yrs): 1.08
6. J.Spezza (29, $7.0/2yrs): 1.05
7. N.Backstrom (25, $6.7/yrs): 1.05
8. J.Lupul (29, $5.3/5yrs): 1.02
9. J.Neal (25, $5.0/5yrs): 1.01
10. P.Kessel (25, $5.4/1yrs): 1.00
11. J.Tavares (22, $5.5/5yrs): 0.99
12. H.Sedin (32, $6.1/1yrs): 0.99
13. J.Eberle (22, $6.0/6yrs): 0.97
14. J.Toews (24, $6.3/2yrs): 0.97
15. P.Elias (36, $6.0*/0yrs): 0.96
16. E.Karlsson (22, $6.5/6yrs): 0.96
17. M.St.Louis (37, $5.6/2yrs): 0.96
18. P.Datsyuk (34, $6.7/1yrs): 0.96
19. M.Hossa (33, $5.3/8yrs): 0.95
20. R.Whitney (40, $4.5/1yrs): 0.94
21. J.Thornton (33, $7.0/1yrs): 0.94
22. P.Sharp (31, $5.9/4yrs): 0.93
23. D.Sedin (32, $6.1/1yrs): 0.93
24. M.Gaborik (30, $7.5/1yrs): 0.93
25. A.Kopitar (25, $6.8/3yrs): 0.93

The only guys cheaper than Lupul are 2 guys who haven't hit UFA age yet, and Neal is barely cheaper, while Giroux is due a massive raise a year from now.
It's giving up money after a career season that worries me. Lupul has to duplicate last season for the next 5 years to make this signing worth it. Some will feel that's doable, others won't be so sure. To each their own.

achtungbaby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 04:45 PM
  #614
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,183
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
It's giving up money after a career season that worries me. Lupul has to duplicate last season for the next 5 years to make this signing worth it. Some will feel that's doable, others won't be so sure. To each their own.
If he duplicates last season, he's an absolute steal, because that kind of production is worth $7+ mil.

If he drops down to 60pt pace production, the deal is fair.

zeke is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 04:55 PM
  #615
Vexxed14
Registered User
 
Vexxed14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Barrie, Ont
Posts: 4,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
It's giving up money after a career season that worries me. Lupul has to duplicate last season for the next 5 years to make this signing worth it. Some will feel that's doable, others won't be so sure. To each their own.
This is the thinking that causes some T.O fans to freak out on players. The reasoning behind your comments is just not reflective of how contracts are offered or realistically judged.

Vexxed14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 05:03 PM
  #616
achtungbaby
Registered User
 
achtungbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
This is the thinking that causes some T.O fans to freak out on players. The reasoning behind your comments is just not reflective of how contracts are offered or realistically judged.
I suppose that's why Semin got his long term long deal as well. Wait a minute...

I'm fine with the cost, am iffy about the term. Since we're talking "if's" here, I'll venture that Lupul and Grabos contracts might look pretty bad within a year depending on how things go.

achtungbaby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 05:08 PM
  #617
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Leino got 4.5 million from Buffalo guys. Lupul is worth the money.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 05:17 PM
  #618
HockeyThoughts
Delivering The Truth
 
HockeyThoughts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,767
vCash: 1550
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Leino got 4.5 million from Buffalo guys. Lupul is worth the money.
People never look at that way.. They tend to find the absolute BEST RFA contracts and consider those reasonable comparisons

HockeyThoughts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 05:17 PM
  #619
Ash35
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 763
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Leino got 4.5 million from Buffalo guys. Lupul is worth the money.

Right and Buffalo won't regret that signing at all.

Ash35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 05:20 PM
  #620
achtungbaby
Registered User
 
achtungbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
People never look at that way.. They tend to find the absolute BEST RFA contracts and consider those reasonable comparisons
Yes, finding some of the worst contracts in the league to make ourselves feel better is a much more reasonable way to look at it.

achtungbaby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 05:21 PM
  #621
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,290
vCash: 2411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
No - if he doesn't work out, we amnesty his contract in 2014. Nonis took a gamble for 130 games.
Can we even use the amnesty for players that were signed under the new CBA ?

Also even if we can i don't think the new owners would favourably with pissing away money .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 05:24 PM
  #622
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash35 View Post
Right and Buffalo won't regret that signing at all.
My point is, look at the market. I can't understand how Lupul isn't worth 5.25 million per.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 05:24 PM
  #623
RogerRoeper*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
Yes, finding some of the worst contracts in the league to make ourselves feel better is a much more reasonable way to look at it.
Just look at what the average UFA forward gets.

RogerRoeper* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 05:30 PM
  #624
achtungbaby
Registered User
 
achtungbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
My point is, look at the market. I can't understand how Lupul isn't worth 5.25 million per.
He's 29 and just had his career year. Some GM's might want to see more from him before paying him like a top 25 scorer in the league when's he only accomplished that once. That's all. Obviously some GM's will feel differently but to each their own.

Looking at what the average UFA gets doesn't mean the market makes sense for your team. That's also a reason why expecting to build your team through July 1st is a risky move at best.

achtungbaby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-21-2013, 05:39 PM
  #625
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,290
vCash: 2411
Quote:
Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
He's 29 and just had his career year. Some GM's might want to see more from him before paying him like a top 25 scorer in the league when's he only accomplished that once. That's all. Obviously some GM's will feel differently but to each their own.

Looking at what the average UFA gets doesn't mean the market makes sense for your team. That's also a reason why expecting to build your team through July 1st is a risky move at best.
Great post .

Lupul had a career year in an offensive system and people act lik he's been a top 25 scorer his entire carrer . This is the same player who a season and half ago was nothing more than a salary dump .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.