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Old
01-21-2013, 09:28 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Why buy him out if teams would be willing to line up at the deadline/draft to make a trade for him?

Even taking 2m of salary would increase his value a good bit
Let me ask you something: Why would Danny Briere waive his NMC?

There's all the rumors out there already about his custody agreement w/ his wife, his desire to want to be w/ his kids, etc. Why would he waive?

And if you get past that, here's something else for you to consider: If Danny Briere's agent is worth a lick, he'd advise his client against waiving the NMC solely for money reasons. If the Flyers ask Danny Briere to waive his NMC, that means they are looking to get rid of him. AKA if he refuses, they will likely buy him out in the offseason. While Briere has a large cap hit, he's actually owed only 5M in actual money over the last 2 years of his deal. A buyout would allow him to recoup 2/3 of that, and he'd be able to sign a new contract for well in excess of that amount, and he'd be able to choose his destination.

By refusing to waive his NMC, Briere gets to choose his destination, and he ends up w/ more money. So I say again, Danny Briere is NOT going to be traded, no matter how much we want him to be.

Also, in the rare event that he were to be traded, why would Holmgren ever take 2M of his salary?!? That's basically 2M cap penalty each year against us for 2013-2014 and 2014-2015. That 2M in cap space is worth far more than the draft pick Briere would net us.

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01-21-2013, 09:45 AM
  #52
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Let me ask you something: Why would Danny Briere waive his NMC?

There's all the rumors out there already about his custody agreement w/ his wife, his desire to want to be w/ his kids, etc. Why would he waive?

And if you get past that, here's something else for you to consider: If Danny Briere's agent is worth a lick, he'd advise his client against waiving the NMC solely for money reasons. If the Flyers ask Danny Briere to waive his NMC, that means they are looking to get rid of him. AKA if he refuses, they will likely buy him out in the offseason. While Briere has a large cap hit, he's actually owed only 5M in actual money over the last 2 years of his deal. A buyout would allow him to recoup 2/3 of that, and he'd be able to sign a new contract for well in excess of that amount, and he'd be able to choose his destination.

By refusing to waive his NMC, Briere gets to choose his destination, and he ends up w/ more money. So I say again, Danny Briere is NOT going to be traded, no matter how much we want him to be.

Also, in the rare event that he were to be traded, why would Holmgren ever take 2M of his salary?!? That's basically 2M cap penalty each year against us for 2013-2014 and 2014-2015. That 2M in cap space is worth far more than the draft pick Briere would net us.
I don't know how the NHL's doing the compliance buyout, but in the NBA the player gets 100% of the remaining salary. The player's go on amnesty waivers, teams bid on the player. The highest bid gets the player, they are responsible for the portion they bid and the team that bought them out is responsible for the rest.

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01-21-2013, 09:57 AM
  #53
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I don't know how the NHL's doing the compliance buyout, but in the NBA the player gets 100% of the remaining salary. The player's go on amnesty waivers, teams bid on the player. The highest bid gets the player, they are responsible for the portion they bid and the team that bought them out is responsible for the rest.
The NHL is doing it this way:
-Players get 2/3 of the remaining money spread out over double the years remaining on the deal. Briere is owed 5M over the last 2 years of his deal, so his buyout amount would be 3.333M and he would get roughly 833K per year for 4 years.

-After being bought out, the player is free to sign w/ anyone besides the team that bought him out (he cannot play w/ that team for 1 year from the date of the buyout). The player is free to sign for any amount of money that he is offered and no matter how much he gets, the team that bought him out doesn't get any relief from paying the player.

So it's quite reasonable to assume that Briere could be bought out by the Flyers and then could go get a 2 year 8M deal elsewhere. Under that scenario, he would make roughly 6M more than he's currently set to make.

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01-21-2013, 10:01 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by FlyingHigh28 View Post
The NHL is doing it this way:
-Players get 2/3 of the remaining money spread out over double the years remaining on the deal. Briere is owed 5M over the last 2 years of his deal, so his buyout amount would be 3.333M and he would get roughly 833K per year for 4 years.

-After being bought out, the player is free to sign w/ anyone besides the team that bought him out (he cannot play w/ that team for 1 year from the date of the buyout). The player is free to sign for any amount of money that he is offered and no matter how much he gets, the team that bought him out doesn't get any relief from paying the player.

So it's quite reasonable to assume that Briere could be bought out by the Flyers and then could go get a 2 year 8M deal elsewhere. Under that scenario, he would make roughly 6M more than he's currently set to make.
No, that's the regular buyout formula

With compliance buyouts, it's the full amount over the normal term

There's been threads on this on other subforums and ton of tweets over it

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01-21-2013, 10:07 AM
  #55
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No, that's the regular buyout formula

With compliance buyouts, it's the full amount over the normal term

There's been threads on this on other subforums and ton of tweets over it
My mistake

I hadn't read anything about the buyouts since the CBA was first agreed upon and the speculation at that time was 2/3.

At any rate, that only makes my argument against Briere waiving his NMC stronger, as it means he gets even more money if he's bought out.

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01-21-2013, 10:34 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by FlyingHigh28 View Post
Le me ask you something: Why would Danny Briere waive his NMC?

There's all the rumors out there already about his custody agreement w/ his wife, his desire to want to be w/ his kids, etc. Why would he waive?

And if you get past that, here's something else for you to consider: If Danny Briere's agent is worth a lick, he'd advise his client against waiving the NMC solely for money reasons. If the Flyers ask Danny Briere to waive his NMC, that means they are looking to get rid of him. AKA if he refuses, they will likely buy him out in the offseason. While Briere has a large cap hit, he's actually owed only 5M in actual money over the last 2 years of his deal. A buyout would allow him to recoup 2/3 of that, and he'd be able to sign a new contract for well in excess of that amount, and he'd be able to choose his destination.

By refusing to waive his NMC, Briere gets to choose his destination, and he ends up w/ more money. So I say again, Danny Briere is NOT going to be traded, no matter how much we want him to be.

Also, in the rare event that he were to be traded, why would Holmgren ever take 2M of his salary?!? That's basically 2M cap penalty each year against us for 2013-2014 and 2014-2015. That 2M in cap space is worth far more than the draft pick Briere would net us.
because there is always the large chance we dont buy him out and he gets stuck here not winning anything.

He wont be traded to the ducks, leafs, or the isles...he would want to go to a contender.

And this custody/ kid thing is a silly argument. Kids dont have to move. He has enough scratch to pay for a nanny.

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01-21-2013, 10:48 AM
  #57
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because there is always the large chance we dont buy him out and he gets stuck here not winning anything.

He wont be traded to the ducks, leafs, or the isles...he would want to go to a contender.

And this custody/ kid thing is a silly argument. Kids dont have to move. He has enough scratch to pay for a nanny.
If the Flyers ask him to waive, it's not about the 2nd round pick they'd get in return for him, it's about the cap going down and him having too large a cap hit for what he currently provides on the ice.

Danny would be a fool to waive his NMC, as the Flyers would most certainly buy him out if it comes to that. He's owed only a paltry 5M, a drop in the bucket to Snider.

And while the kid thing might not mean much to you, at this stage in Danny's career he's alluded to his children being VERY important to him. I'm not sure if he'd be willing to not see them @ all during the hockey season.

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01-21-2013, 10:55 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by FlyingHigh28 View Post
If the Flyers ask him to waive, it's not about the 2nd round pick they'd get in return for him, it's about the cap going down and him having too large a cap hit for what he currently provides on the ice.

Danny would be a fool to waive his NMC, as the Flyers would most certainly buy him out if it comes to that. He's owed only a paltry 5M, a drop in the bucket to Snider.

And while the kid thing might not mean much to you, at this stage in Danny's career he's alluded to his children being VERY important to him. I'm not sure if he'd be willing to not see them @ all during the hockey season.
They'd get much more than a 2nd.

And if he doesn't waive his NMC, don't buy him out. Drop him to the 3rd line wing spot.

And like most players at this stage of their careers, winning a cup is very important to him.

There's a few teams that are contenders that need 2nd line centers

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01-21-2013, 11:03 AM
  #59
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And while the kid thing might not mean much to you, at this stage in Danny's career he's alluded to his children being VERY important to him. I'm not sure if he'd be willing to not see them @ all during the hockey season.
if we buy himouthe has the same problem w/ his kids.

His cap hit isnt that big of a deal. If im GM, im trying to get assets while doing DB a favor going to a contender.

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01-21-2013, 11:04 AM
  #60
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I thought the thread was about Laughton not Briere, wasn't it?

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01-21-2013, 12:42 PM
  #61
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They'd get much more than a 2nd.

And if he doesn't waive his NMC, don't buy him out. Drop him to the 3rd line wing spot.

And like most players at this stage of their careers, winning a cup is very important to him.

There's a few teams that are contenders that need 2nd line centers
Here's the problem, dropping Briere to the third line wing spot hurts this team. You're giving up 6.5M in cap space for a 3rd line winger, which is unacceptable. The whole "let's play hardball with him if he uses his NMC" is fun when you're just speculating about the future, but in practice it hurts the player and it hurts the team; it's good for nobody.

We gave Danny B that no movement clause and he has the right to use it and he shouldn't be punished if he does. I can't be mad at a player for making a shrewd financial decision.

But I would be angry w/ Homer if he has the chance to amnesty Briere and put that money towards Perry or Iginla or Semin and doesn't do it just to prove a point w/ Briere.

If Homer decides Briere is no longer worth his cap hit (ie. is willing to trade him), then even if Danny uses his NMC, we should get rid of him in the offseason, provided a better replacement like Perry is available.

As far as the contending teams needing a center, very few of them have a better chance than the Flyers. I think you forget we were one of the top 8 teams in the NHL last year. If you are expecting Danny to waive his NMC and leave his family to go to team just because they appear they're going to sneak into the playoffs as a 7-8 seed, then I think you're mistaken. Most of the top contenders don't "need" Danny Briere and certainly wouldn't pony up the type of assets you're talking about to acquire him. I also think many top contenders would be extremely wary of his cap hit. That's a lot of cap space being eaten up by a 2nd line center. And the middling contenders that might give up something of value and be willing to take Briere are not likely to be very attractive / appealing for Briere to waive his NMC.

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01-21-2013, 02:31 PM
  #62
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Here's the problem, dropping Briere to the third line wing spot hurts this team. You're giving up 6.5M in cap space for a 3rd line winger, which is unacceptable. The whole "let's play hardball with him if he uses his NMC" is fun when you're just speculating about the future, but in practice it hurts the player and it hurts the team; it's good for nobody.

We gave Danny B that no movement clause and he has the right to use it and he shouldn't be punished if he does. I can't be mad at a player for making a shrewd financial decision.

But I would be angry w/ Homer if he has the chance to amnesty Briere and put that money towards Perry or Iginla or Semin and doesn't do it just to prove a point w/ Briere.

If Homer decides Briere is no longer worth his cap hit (ie. is willing to trade him), then even if Danny uses his NMC, we should get rid of him in the offseason, provided a better replacement like Perry is available.

As far as the contending teams needing a center, very few of them have a better chance than the Flyers. I think you forget we were one of the top 8 teams in the NHL last year. If you are expecting Danny to waive his NMC and leave his family to go to team just because they appear they're going to sneak into the playoffs as a 7-8 seed, then I think you're mistaken. Most of the top contenders don't "need" Danny Briere and certainly wouldn't pony up the type of assets you're talking about to acquire him. I also think many top contenders would be extremely wary of his cap hit. That's a lot of cap space being eaten up by a 2nd line center. And the middling contenders that might give up something of value and be willing to take Briere are not likely to be very attractive / appealing for Briere to waive his NMC.
i agree mostly. It sucks to have to be talking about danny like this, he's a great guy it seems and a good leader, but his cap hit is just too much to handle at this point, and if a guy like Perry is available to be had, then so is the business of hockey i suppose.

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01-21-2013, 03:15 PM
  #63
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Haven't been too impressed with Laughton thus far. Granted I didn't see the third period yesterday so maybe he looked great there but I haven't seen anything that makes me think he should stay in the NHL this season. He certainly hasn't looked bad or even out of place, but I just think he would be better served by going back to Juniors for another year and see how he looks at camp next year. No need to rush things. Plenty of centers on this team once Briere is healthy.

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01-21-2013, 03:20 PM
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I think he has shown more than Couturier has in the young season. As of 2 games he is our 2nd best center.

While I don't like playing 18 year olds in the nhl , he has shown that he belongs and can contribute. I honestly thought his ceiling was a 3rd line grinder but he has quite a bit of skill. He can definitely one day be a top 6 center.

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01-21-2013, 04:07 PM
  #65
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I think he has shown more than Couturier has in the young season. As of 2 games he is our 2nd best center.

While I don't like playing 18 year olds in the nhl , he has shown that he belongs and can contribute. I honestly thought his ceiling was a 3rd line grinder but he has quite a bit of skill. He can definitely one day be a top 6 center.
Couturier can't find his hands thus far.

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01-21-2013, 04:11 PM
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im not going to rush and judge Laughton based on a couple of games.
not many players below the top line have been good in the first 2 games.

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01-21-2013, 04:47 PM
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I think he has shown more than Couturier has in the young season. As of 2 games he is our 2nd best center.

While I don't like playing 18 year olds in the nhl , he has shown that he belongs and can contribute. I honestly thought his ceiling was a 3rd line grinder but he has quite a bit of skill. He can definitely one day be a top 6 center.
Any thoughts on why Couturier and Schenn look so bad early on in the season? Is it a case of the sophomore slump, or do you think Terry Murray really did some damage to their development while they were playing for the Phantoms?

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01-21-2013, 04:59 PM
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Any thoughts on why Couturier and Schenn look so bad early on in the season? Is it a case of the sophomore slump, or do you think Terry Murray really did some damage to their development while they were playing for the Phantoms?
It's two games after playing four months in the AHL with more responsibility this year than last. Claude Giroux struggled his 2nd year in the league up until the playoffs. The Flyers could end up having a bad year because of the sophomores struggling but it is a little too early to judge.

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01-21-2013, 05:18 PM
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Any thoughts on why Couturier and Schenn look so bad early on in the season? Is it a case of the sophomore slump, or do you think Terry Murray really did some damage to their development while they were playing for the Phantoms?
Maybe they are just a step or two slow moving from the AHL pace to the NHL one. They weren't playing with anyone else on the Phantoms who could match the NHL and while some of the competition was NHL level, it certainly isn't on par with the NHL.

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01-21-2013, 05:34 PM
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Any thoughts on why Couturier and Schenn look so bad early on in the season? Is it a case of the sophomore slump, or do you think Terry Murray really did some damage to their development while they were playing for the Phantoms?
Or they're just 18 and 22 respectively. Compared to Claude Giroux who's 25, or Scott Hartnell who's 30, they're infants in this league. Honestly, do people forget that Brayden has another 3 years to reach the same point in his career as our captain, while Sean has 7 more to go!! Where was Claude at this point, and how much responsibility did he have?

Better yet, where were Richards and Carter at that point, and how much responsibility did they have? Even better, how'd it work out for the team? If I remember right, Simon Gagne, fresh of a 47 goal season with a fading super-star (sounds familiar), put together a pretty decent season, but secondary scoring failed the team because the GM counted on young players for too much too early.

People need to relax. If this seasons doesn't go perfectly to plan, there's a good draft, we have good scouts, we have a great coach, and we have a good core. Keep building upon what we have. Keep the kids together the way Pittsburgh did, the way Chicago, and LA did, maybe add some pieces along the way, and maybe we'll be looking at a Cup run of our own. If things straighten themselves out, even better.

Cheers.

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01-21-2013, 05:40 PM
  #71
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Or they're just 18 and 22 respectively. Compared to Claude Giroux who's 25, or Scott Hartnell who's 30, they're infants in this league. Honestly, do people forget that Brayden has another 3 years to reach the same point in his career as our captain, while Sean has 7 more to go!! Where was Claude at this point, and how much responsibility did he have?

Better yet, where were Richards and Carter at that point, and how much responsibility did they have? Even better, how'd it work out for the team? If I remember right, Simon Gagne, fresh of a 47 goal season with a fading super-star (sounds familiar), put together a pretty decent season, but secondary scoring failed the team because the GM counted on young players for too much too early.

People need to relax. If this seasons doesn't go perfectly to plan, there's a good draft, we have good scouts, we have a great coach, and we have a good core. Keep building upon what we have. Keep the kids together the way Pittsburgh did, the way Chicago, and LA did, maybe add some pieces along the way, and maybe we'll be looking at a Cup run of our own. If things straighten themselves out, even better.

Cheers.
Wanted to say Couturier is 20 and Schenn is 21.

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01-21-2013, 05:44 PM
  #72
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It's two games after playing four months in the AHL with more responsibility this year than last. Claude Giroux struggled his 2nd year in the league up until the playoffs. The Flyers could end up having a bad year because of the sophomores struggling but it is a little too early to judge.
reminds me of the team from the year we don't speak of; Carter, Richards and Umberger were not ready for the next step that year

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01-21-2013, 05:52 PM
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reminds me of the team from the year we don't speak of; Carter, Richards and Umberger were not ready for the next step that year
Well atleast with this draft, we arent sucking during one of the worse drafts seen.

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01-21-2013, 06:10 PM
  #74
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If we were to miss the playoffs, and if we were to move Timonen and Briere, do ytou think we could get a first for each at the deadline?

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01-21-2013, 06:50 PM
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If we were to miss the playoffs, and if we were to move Timonen and Briere, do ytou think we could get a first for each at the deadline?
Yes. Without a doubt.

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