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How the Islanders leave Nassau early

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Old
01-19-2013, 05:52 AM
  #101
Hipster Doofus
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Originally Posted by Isles Fan View Post
I am so glad to hear you are so knowledgable on the future plans of Mr. Wang and Mr. Ratner and even more greatful you know Ratner will not let Wang run the team on the cheap.

I will agree Wang spent on Peca and Yahsin and Osgood and the building rocked, I know I was there, had season tickets, never missed a game. However after that initial cash infusion what happened? Never even came close to that first year he owned the team. Team played worse, people stopped coming. It is a simple fact you seem to have trouble grasping. I will also agree that the move does provide hope, but I hope for lots of things that never happen, I am sure you do too.

You cannot compare the local repsonse to the Nets to the Isles. With the Nets, they moved to an area steep in basketball history. Some of the best playground basketball players of all time come from Brooklyn. The was a huge article about it in SI a few months back. It's not a hockey hot bed and if you think for a second that a fan of the NYR is going to take season tix to the NYI just because they are cheaper, I have bridge to sell you. Might they go to a game or two? Sure but it is not going to offset the fan from LI that doesnt want to schlep in Brooklyn to watch a bad team. I said the move would be lamented when the team still sucks.

I know you are happy they ended up in Brooklyn because you have been a proponet of it since the idea first surfaced here. Personally I think you are glad because it makes getting to games easier for you.

As for my forecasting abilities, whether I have experience in sports revenue or not doesn't matter. While I care not to disclose to you my background or where I ply my trade, it doesn't matter if it is sports revenue, corporate revenue or the weather. Forecasts are not scientific. They are based on data usully culled from past performance applied to potential future earnings. Regardless it's a crap shoot. Just think back to the last time the weatheran forecated a foot of snow and not a flake fell. They had good data, but the consitions just were not favorable.

Oh BTW, the NY Times, while a good daily paper, has it's warts too.
Lmao forecasts are not scientific. Thats such a lame joke and complety untrue and you're using it as a metaphor and its awful.

First off, forecasts are designed to predict. So if its forecasted as snow, dress for cold and wet conditions. You dont wake up, throw on some shorts and say "ah **** it they're never right." Lets say hes overestimating the revenue increases, its still revenue increases. Just like if the weather guy is wrong on snow it still
might be brick out.

Not too mention your understanding of how revenue is created is very narrow. Barclays being accesable and cheaper means it can draw impulse demand. This is what kills the Isles on weeknight attendance. You cant just hop on a train to Nassau like you can to Barclays. Nassau relied on families buying season tickets and passing them down. Unfortunately that business model doesnt work for the NHL and cant support a competitive roster. If winning could create revenues to pay for winning, why did Wang stop investing after 2002? Cause hes evil? Or because even packed houses cant create the revenues they need to pay for a good team? Team needed corporate support, accessability, and luxury options. It got that.

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01-19-2013, 01:21 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
PR blunders and not spending due to lack of revenue are 2 different things. Hopefully he's learned from the former.

Mets/Yankees luxury boxes cost much more than NYI's will and isn't a valid comparison.

You spent many posts not convinced that Brooklyn and a LI arena had different corporate support levels so pardon me if I don't put much stock in your Brooklyn non magic pill theory.

Stating a fact to counterpoint a wiseguy's insinuation isn't patting myself on the back. Not suprised you can't tell the difference.
Just as I put no stock in your belief that corporate support ends at the city line.

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01-19-2013, 01:38 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by lost35 View Post
I could care less about 35 million that will go into Wangs pocket

lots of good memories in that building

lets savor it while we can
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Originally Posted by Axe Man View Post
I for one still like the Coliseum. Call me whatever you want. If the old dump had mass transit and a few more luxury boxes there would be no reason to move.
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Originally Posted by Quickdraw2828 View Post
I have been to games in the new and old buildings in Boston, Chicago, Montreal, and Toronto. The new buildings may be spiffier, but the high ceilings really cut down on the crowd noise. If the Islanders would give the fans something to cheer about, Nassau would be, by far, the loudest arena in the league. Remember the Isles/Rangers playoff series. Electrifying atmosphere! Once the Isles move to Brooklyn, that atmosphere will never exist again.

The old buildings rocked like a mother******!
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Originally Posted by lost35 View Post
I could care less about a "state of the art arena"

Playing in that old "dump" was part of its charm

I do not want the Isles to leave Nassau Period.
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Originally Posted by stranger34 View Post
I don't get the Islanders fans who dislike the coliseum. It is my favorite arena in sports right now. It is a throwback.

But I also prefer shea to Citi, old yankee to new yankee, and the spectrum.

The coli has history, nuance, nostalgia, sightlines, convenience. It's a dying a breed as a fan friendly suburban arena. It should be celebrated in its dying breaths, not **** on

I agree with all of this. I do realize the financial realities, though. As I live in Texas now, I'm not going to games anyway. I'm not delusional, just nostalgic. Yes, even about losing teams. There are some great enjoyable games even in years where the overall record is bad.

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Old
01-19-2013, 04:21 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
I predicted the Brooklyn move half a year before it happened. I even came close to the announcement date of it prediction.


Personally, I wanted Queens as I thought that would be best for the franchise and easier for the LI fan base because that's the kind of guy I am.
And I bet your sooo proud of yourself.

Thank you so much for thinking of the lost soles on LI. you are far too kind.

As I said upthread, time will tell.

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01-20-2013, 02:27 AM
  #105
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I would have liked to have seen the Islanders stay on Long Island but at least there not going to Quebec. As for Brooklyn i was at the arena for a Nets game. It's a beautiful arena and the seating for basketball is great. Feel very close to the court as the arena goes more upwards then outwards. Hopefully they make it as good for hockey when the islanders get there.

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01-20-2013, 08:51 AM
  #106
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I for one still like the Coliseum. Call me whatever you want. If the old dump had mass transit and a few more luxury boxes there would be no reason to move.
But it doesn't. and you can thank long island politicians for not wanting to build a rail car or some type of transportation hub that connects the coliseum with a main railroad line. backwards thinking. which is why i got the hell out of nassau county this past year after living there my whole life.

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01-20-2013, 09:09 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Isles Fan View Post
Just where is the 35M coming from?

Season ticket base may go up a smidge but that is offset by the current season holders that are not going to travel to brooklyn. So thats a wash. Not to mention those that stay away just because of the higher ticket prices that will surely follow the move.

Corporate sponsorship? Maybe a smidge of a tick up, but if the team sucks that is short lived.

Luxuary suites? Again tied to team performance. no one wants to go watch a losing team.

National exposure? Again if they suck they don't make it to Nat'l TV.

So again I ask where is the 35M coming from?

No matter how you slice it, revenue is dirctly related to on ice performance.
Ok I am going to enlighten you and others who ask these type of questions. maybe i should put it in caps. nah not needed. here we go.

the big corporate sponsors like SONY, HONDA, etc etc. when they buy luxury suites, they buy them for the entire year for all events including concerts, shows and yes hockey games. so the islanders will not have to ask SONY, HONDA etc to please include them in their corporate sponsorship. islanders games will be included so the islanders already have these sponsors set.

how do i know this? because i know people who work for both sony corporate and honda corporate and they told me the luxury suites are bought up for the entire 365 days a year.

so the $35 million extra is already there for the islanders without having to do a damn thing except for move into the building. the additional revenue above and beyond the $35 million extra the islanders will make will need to come from fans filling the seats.

they don't need to work for the $35 million. it's already set in stone. the additional revenue is where the islanders will have to work on in order to make.

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Old
01-21-2013, 10:19 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by potvins4cups View Post
how do i know this? because i know people who work for both sony corporate and honda corporate and they told me the luxury suites are bought up for the entire 365 days a year.
Understood, but all of that money does not go to the isles. Some goes to the Nets and some goes to ther events that come into the building, no?

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01-21-2013, 08:08 PM
  #109
Bert Marshall days
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Just as I put no stock in your belief that corporate support ends at the city line.


Right. That's why NYI is leaving LI for Brooklyn.

{MOD EDIT}. Wow, talk about denial.

Here's a quarter, buy a clue.

"An expert contacted by the Times estimated that those suites would generate about $21 million for the Islanders, while premium seating would generate an additional $33 million. That comes to $54 million from suites and premium seats — $35 million more per year than what the Islanders generate at the Coliseum."


"Q. Why would the Islanders move from the Coliseum, where they are tenants, to Barclays, where they will still be tenants?"

"A. The short answer: $35 million in extra revenue per year. That goes a long way toward wiping out the club's current operating deficit, estimated at $8 million per year.
'

The main benefit in this move "is not in the increased revenue the Isles will get from the average fan; it's in the huge increase they'll get from selling luxury suites and premium club seats," said Tony Knopp, chief executive officer of Spotlight TMS, a company that manages corporate tickets at Barclays Center and other sites around the country."

"The Coliseum, built in 1972 and barely renovated since, has 31 luxury suites and a relatively small number of high-priced premium seats. Knopp estimates that the suites generate about $3 million a year and the premium seats about $16 million."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5753C1A9649D8B 63


Last edited by Homeland Security: 01-21-2013 at 10:39 PM.
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Old
01-21-2013, 08:13 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Isles Fan View Post
And I bet your sooo proud of yourself.

Thank you so much for thinking of the lost soles on LI. you are far too kind.

As I said upthread, time will tell.

WTF?

Time has already told. LI lost it's team to Brooklyn. Reality, what a concept.

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01-21-2013, 08:16 PM
  #111
Bert Marshall days
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Originally Posted by Hipster Doofus View Post
Lmao forecasts are not scientific. Thats such a lame joke and complety untrue and you're using it as a metaphor and its awful.

First off, forecasts are designed to predict. So if its forecasted as snow, dress for cold and wet conditions. You dont wake up, throw on some shorts and say "ah **** it they're never right." Lets say hes overestimating the revenue increases, its still revenue increases. Just like if the weather guy is wrong on snow it still
might be brick out.

Not too mention your understanding of how revenue is created is very narrow. Barclays being accesable and cheaper means it can draw impulse demand. This is what kills the Isles on weeknight attendance. You cant just hop on a train to Nassau like you can to Barclays. Nassau relied on families buying season tickets and passing them down. Unfortunately that business model doesnt work for the NHL and cant support a competitive roster. If winning could create revenues to pay for winning, why did Wang stop investing after 2002? Cause hes evil? Or because even packed houses cant create the revenues they need to pay for a good team? Team needed corporate support, accessability, and luxury options. It got that.
Exactly! But save your time. His type will never get it even in 2-3 years when they're gone from LI.

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01-21-2013, 09:56 PM
  #112
MJF
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Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post


Right. That's why NYI is leaving LI for Brooklyn.

{MOD EDIT} Wow, talk about denial.

Here's a quarter, buy a clue.

"An expert contacted by the Times estimated that those suites would generate about $21 million for the Islanders, while premium seating would generate an additional $33 million. That comes to $54 million from suites and premium seats — $35 million more per year than what the Islanders generate at the Coliseum."


"Q. Why would the Islanders move from the Coliseum, where they are tenants, to Barclays, where they will still be tenants?"

"A. The short answer: $35 million in extra revenue per year. That goes a long way toward wiping out the club's current operating deficit, estimated at $8 million per year.
'

The main benefit in this move "is not in the increased revenue the Isles will get from the average fan; it's in the huge increase they'll get from selling luxury suites and premium club seats," said Tony Knopp, chief executive officer of Spotlight TMS, a company that manages corporate tickets at Barclays Center and other sites around the country."

"The Coliseum, built in 1972 and barely renovated since, has 31 luxury suites and a relatively small number of high-priced premium seats. Knopp estimates that the suites generate about $3 million a year and the premium seats about $16 million."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5753C1A9649D8B 63
I know all about that article. That explains why they wouldn't get those benefits at the Coliseum with the current arrangement. My point is that had the Islanders been able to get a new state of the art arena in Uniondale, they would have been able to get the corporate sponsors, box and suite holders, that they would need. Something you seem to believe would never happen.

And we'll never know that because of the Nassau County politicians and voters.


{MOD EDIT}


Last edited by Homeland Security: 01-21-2013 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Edit
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01-21-2013, 11:40 PM
  #113
aemoreira1981
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Another unresolved issue for the Islanders might be: if the Islanders' lease could somehow be allowed to expire prematurely, would they not need to find a new practice facility within New York City or just outside of it? (The Brooklyn Nets are having a hard time finding a site for a practice facility within city limits; the lease on their existing facility runs out in 2 years). That commute from Syosset to Brooklyn isn't exactly short (to be fair, the New York Rangers practice 2 counties away as well).

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Old
01-21-2013, 11:46 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by aemoreira1981 View Post
Another unresolved issue for the Islanders might be: if the Islanders' lease could somehow be allowed to expire prematurely, would they not need to find a new practice facility within New York City or just outside of it? (The Brooklyn Nets are having a hard time finding a site for a practice facility within city limits; the lease on their existing facility runs out in 2 years). That commute from Syosset to Brooklyn isn't exactly short (to be fair, the New York Rangers practice 2 counties away as well).
Aviator... They could definitely throw some money into that facility, lots of additional room if needed. Besides, they are already have two rinks, you just got to make them NHL quality and then add NHL quality lockerrooms and an NHL quality gym (although, I'm pretty sure their gym is pretty top of the line).

Having said that, most guys would still live somewhere in Nassau county, which means Iceworks would still make sense as a practice facility.


Last edited by Renbarg: 01-21-2013 at 11:58 PM.
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01-22-2013, 09:10 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
WTF?

Time has already told. LI lost it's team to Brooklyn. Reality, what a concept.
Did not realize I had to break things down for someone who knows all and can predict the future, so let me give you a hand.

Time will tell if the $35 million happens, time will tell if any additional funds get dumped back into the on ice product and time will tell 5 or 10 years from now if the move translates into more than just a fancier address. If you read Sunday's Newsday, you would see I am not the only one who believes a new home does nothing unless ownership improves the team http://www.newsday.com/sports/column...seum-1.4477272

But I know you will tell us how the columnist is wrong and blah, blah, blah. The reality of the situation, since you allegedly like dealing in reality, is no one knows whats going to happen once they move. No one knows if revenue is generated or not, how much revenue that might be and no one knows where that additonal revenue ends up. That has been my point all along. This notion that a change of address cures all is laughable, but I will let you live in your would of sunshine and flowers. I prefer to see how this plays out. Like I said, I am an Islanders fan, I want them to win and if I am wrong will be the first to admit it.

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01-22-2013, 01:58 PM
  #116
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I hope the Isles leave Nassau ASAP because I believe they will stop making deals to just get above the floor at the expense of dumping cheaper deals (Hunter for Rolston) and keeping some bad contracts (DP).

I think Monti, Ratner and perhaps Wang has to chip in for the Isles to leave Nassau early. My guess will be around September 2014.

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