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Eller already in the doghouse?

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Old
01-21-2013, 07:17 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Don't you think Eller should get the chance to play on the PP before you label him uneffective ?


I tought the same thing when I was a kid. But in reality this is not true at all. Explain Stamkos please. Or even Lecavalier. Or even Plekanec.


This is the problem here, we can't see a player's ceiling when we dont give him the chance. So far he's 23, never played PP(sufficent), never played with good wingers(He was dangerous with AK.) and he got hard matchups.


Again please explain Stamkos. Or do you want more example of centers that are shoot first ?
His passing skill is not subpar anyway.

..............................................Mayb e he didnt show you nothing (he actually showed alot.) because he never had a real chance ?



Chuck has more skill than any of our centers... What is your point?
Point is: Chucky is the key. If he sticks as a center, there is no place for Eller. Do the math.

Oh, and I sure hope you're not comparing our Danish buddy with a freak like Stamkos or Lecavalier. And Plekanec. Please. Plekanec carries a play and CREATES them. Eller hasn't proven to ANYBODY in the pro hockey stratosphere that he does. Not in St.Louis (not too shabby organisation), not in Montreal (where you have seen passed A PLENTY of coaches, scouts, GMs). You can blame Therrien all you want, but if you think Bergevin doesn't think like him, you are mistaken. And Bergevin's reputation as a talent seeker is second to none in the league, apparently. So he must know a thing or two about hockey. Probably more than me, you, and all the posters put together.

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Old
01-21-2013, 07:17 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Actually, if pro hockey thought like you, Eller would be 1st line material. Evidently, they do not think the same way. Eller controls the puck because he comes from a hockey background that favors puck possession (big ice surface) and starting the play in a cycle. That may be good. But at the same time, the NHL is based on North-South hockey. And that's what the coaches can't seem to get into Eller's head. He can surely control the puck. That's a skill. But what does he do with it afterwards is the question mark.
Your previous post was 'game, set and match'.

This one is for the championship.

Hand the guy the Cup.

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01-21-2013, 07:24 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Bloumeister View Post
Your previous post was 'game, set and match'.

This one is for the championship.

Hand the guy the Cup.
hehehe. To be honest, I hate arguing here, because it's usually a fun hockey forum. Not as fun as some others, but still. I love the old guys here because they have been through a lot with this team. And sometimes, it irritates me to think that we tend to believe WE are better than pro hockey people. If some of you had EVER the chance of being close to them, see them in action, see them manage and play the game, you would see that all we do here is pure semantics. They know their stuff. Are they perfect? Never. But we would suck at the job like you wouldn't believe if put in their shoes. Man, they ARE the best in the world for a reason.

And I still think Eller is not in the 'doghouse'. But Chuckie is key to his future as a center with the Habs. That's evident. I saw that as early as last November when Therrien and Bergevin were talking about bringing Chuckie to camp and MAYBE keeping him. All lies with Chuckie right now.

If I were Eller, I wouldn't not make the kid look good.

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Old
01-21-2013, 07:26 PM
  #229
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
When your only skill is to keep possession, you are not a top 6 player. I would agree that he belongs on a bottom 6, why he might miss a game or 2 is because of the auditions we're making.

As far as skills, people should make the difference between pure skills and the ability to make something out of it. The jury is still out on Eller as far as being able to translate his abilities and skills. One thing is sure, we will have to really test him to know what's his future with us. We didn't do it so far. I believe we will in the near future. We CANNOT let another guy go to see him flourish elsewhere. My heart wouldn't take it. But right now, people are panicking over nothing. Unless was already hated before he got the job hence the short leash....I know which one it is. And again, should I repeat for a 1000 times, that I'm far from being a Therrien fan.
I agree with everything you say. The thing is, most of us Eller fans think he's potentially a more physical version of Plekanec if he can learn to keep his composure offensively. He's not there yet, he might never be, but hence the potential. Because for all the criticism he gets his point total last year was perfectly respectable for a guy playing in a defensive role at 22-23 years old. And this could be all he is. But there's a cry that he's not even a good 3rd liner unless he gets 50 points on the 3rd line, which is a ridiculous standard.

I have no problem with Therrien experimenting. This is a bad team that has nothing to lose. And the notion that playing a young player on the wing means he's not a center is ridiculous, as I have said many times when I stated my opinion that Galchenyuk isn't ready to be a center in the NHL. Personally, I'm fine for trying all our centers on the wings to see what works. Desharnais, Eller, Galchenyuk, the only center who we know exactly what he gives us is Plek.

And I'm sure you agree that it's simply not true that playmakers have to play center and scorers winger. When I say Eller's skill at keeping possession matters, I'm not saying that alone makes him an automatic center, I'm saying that judging what makes someone have potential to be a center in the NHL goes far beyond looking at assists totals or fancy passes. There's a reason St Louis is a winger despite having greater vision than either Vinny or Stamkos.

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01-21-2013, 07:27 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Point is: Chucky is the key. If he sticks as a center, there is no place for Eller. Do the math.

Oh, and I sure hope you're not comparing our Danish buddy with a freak like Stamkos or Lecavalier. And Plekanec. Please. Plekanec carries a play and CREATES them. Eller hasn't proven to ANYBODY in the pro hockey stratosphere that he does. Not in St.Louis (not too shabby organisation), not in Montreal (where you have seen passed A PLENTY of coaches, scouts, GMs). You can blame Therrien all you want, but if you think Bergevin doesn't think like him, you are mistaken. And Bergevin's reputation as a talent seeker is second to none in the league, apparently. So he must know a thing or two about hockey. Probably more than me, you, and all the posters put together.
Those four guys have pretty much the same skillset(Sure better quality) that's what I tried to make you understand, but you've seemed to have missed the point.
There is place for Eller. If you are too stubborn to admit that he his only 23 and that he has a great ceiling stop reading and just tell me, I'll stop arguing.
Eller has been treated like crap, he doesnt deserve to be squashed under everybody. He has damn good talent, he can carry the pick like anyone on this team, he can shoot it as good as most, he can deke better than most too, and then he's good in his own zone too. Now i'll repeat again, he didnt get his true chance. When this comes, we'll see what he's worth. But it need's to come fast, and not 1 game. We need enough time to see him. He need's someone to feed him the puck(AK Did that pretty well.)

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01-21-2013, 07:34 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Those four guys have pretty much the same skillset(Sure better quality) that's what I tried to make you understand, but you've seemed to have missed the point.
There is place for Eller. If you are too stubborn to admit that he his only 23 and that he has a great ceiling stop reading and just tell me, I'll stop arguing.
Eller has been treated like crap, he doesnt deserve to be squashed under everybody. He has damn good talent, he can carry the pick like anyone on this team, he can shoot it as good as most, he can deke better than most too, and then he's good in his own zone too. Now i'll repeat again, he didnt get his true chance. When this comes, we'll see what he's worth. But it need's to come fast, and not 1 game. We need enough time to see him. He need's someone to feed him the puck(AK Did that pretty well.)
Listen, sometimes on forums we tend to the extremes. I apologize if I did so. I think Eller can be productive. I think he can become a decent 3rd line center if he LEARNS to play the north american way. I think he can. He showed some flashes of it last year.

I just think that Therrien will want to see Chuckie at center. And that it could be Chuckie's position to lose. And that would compromise Eller's stay at center with the Habs. That's all I meant. Cheers.

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01-21-2013, 07:36 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Vasculio View Post
Am I the only one thinking that Desharnais played like crap saturday ? I like that Gally is playing center in practice, and especially like that Gallagher is playing with him, and Prust too, but Eller playing with Blunden, that I don't like, especially since I thought he wasn't as bad as Desharnais...

But yeah, whatever helps getting a better pick...
DD got pushed around like a rag doll but this team thinks he is the next star

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01-21-2013, 07:41 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Lines should be :

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gionta
Bourque - DD - Cole
Moen - Eller - Gallagher
Prust - Dumont/White - Armstrong

Plekanec line VS 1st line
Eller Line VS 2nd line
DD line VS 3rd line

If Therrien thinks DD can face top opposition night in and night out, the Habs are in for a long ass year. On the other hand, Plekanec will have a field day vs weaker opp.
agreed DD cant defend top centers

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01-21-2013, 07:53 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
agreed DD cant defend top centers
Desharnais can have a great future as a guy like Briere who feasts on weak matchups, but to have a line like that you need two good workhorse lines, which is why someone like Eller has so much value even if he only ends up a 3rd liner.

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01-21-2013, 09:11 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
A center needs to be good at both ends. Eller is good at both ends. Desharnais is only good in the offensive zone.

In terms of production, it's hard to tell given the different contexts. We know that Eller produces at a mediocre clip with crappy linemates and icetime, and Desharnais produces at an average clip with amazing linemates and icetime.
Really cause last season Desharnais had the second best +/- rating after Cole and in front of PK. You seem to spit a lot of crap with no backing.

Really amazing linemates? Cole and Pacioretty are amazing? Cole had his best season in his career last year and Pac had his first good ever, I don't what you're talking about. Desharnais in is second NHL season ever scored 60 pts which is good. The line was good but no one was AMAZING!

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01-21-2013, 09:28 PM
  #236
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How dare they make some changes and try to whip some guys on a team that finished 28th overall last year!

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01-21-2013, 09:30 PM
  #237
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If Gally makes it at center, it won't be at the expense of Eller. It'll be at the expense of Desharnais.

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01-21-2013, 09:31 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
If Gally makes it at center, it won't be at the expense of Eller. It'll be at the expense of Desharnais.
Ideally, Galchenyuk-Eller would be our top-2 centres in the near future.

We need to focus on the cup contention window of 2015-2018, not trying to overachieve all the way to 11th place in the conference this year.

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01-21-2013, 09:33 PM
  #239
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DD is so overated lol he played with the 2 best wingers last year against weaker opposition while plekanec was playing the tough minutes with winger like moen .

On the road , when DD was matched agaisnt top opposition he was heavly outplayed.

On top of that he's like 5'4

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01-21-2013, 09:35 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Ideally, Galchenyuk-Eller would be our top-2 centres in the near future.

We need to focus on the cup contention window of 2015-2018, not trying to overachieve all the way to 11th place in the conference this year.


Finally someone who understands.

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01-21-2013, 09:39 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Vasculio View Post
Am I the only one thinking that Desharnais played like crap saturday ? I like that Gally is playing center in practice, and especially like that Gallagher is playing with him, and Prust too, but Eller playing with Blunden, that I don't like, especially since I thought he wasn't as bad as Desharnais...

But yeah, whatever helps getting a better pick...
Actully that entire line was plying awfull, pacioretty probably had his worst game in a hab uniform. Eller i thougth had a strong third period. Putting gallchenyuk with Gallagher is a good idea there should be no rust... I would hope that Eller could play with them eventually....

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01-21-2013, 09:41 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Bieber fever View Post
DD is so overated lol he played with the 2 best wingers last year against weaker opposition while plekanec was playing the tough minutes with winger like moen .

On the road , when DD was matched agaisnt top opposition he was heavly outplayed.

On top of that he's like 5'4
So, let me get this straight.

DD is only good because of Cole and Patches.. and easy minutes. But on the road, when that line has tough minutes, only DD sucks?

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01-21-2013, 09:46 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
So, let me get this straight.

DD is only good because of Cole and Patches.. and easy minutes. But on the road, when that line has tough minutes, only DD sucks?
Here are the facts:

Habs fans were crying for years when Koivu was scoring 60-70 points a year, year-in and year-out, without having babied minutes, and playing with 2nd liners like Higgins and Ryder when he was at his most fortunate. Habs fans complained Koivu was too short at 5'10''. We needed more "size down the middle".

Now that 5'5'' Desharnais is scoring 60 points, with babied minutes, with two wingers better than anybody Koivu ever had for more than 10 games at a time, some habs fans are celebrating.


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01-21-2013, 09:49 PM
  #244
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Desharnais, Plekanec, Eller...I still miss Koivu.

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01-21-2013, 09:50 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Here are the facts:

Habs fans were crying for years when Koivu was scoring 60-70 points a year, year-in and year-out, without having babied minutes, and playing with 2nd liners like Higgins and Ryder when he was at his most fortunate. Habs fans complained Koivu was too short at 5'10''. We needed more "size down the middle".

Now that 5'5'' Desharnais is scoring 60 points, with babied minutes, with two wingers better than anybody Koivu ever had for more than 10 games at a time, some habs fans are celebrating.

Speak for others. I loved Koivu and never wanted him to leave.

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01-21-2013, 09:53 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Speak for others. I loved Koivu and never wanted him to leave.
I'm pointing out that we have lower standards now if we're happy with Desharnais.

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01-21-2013, 09:56 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'm pointing out that we have lower standards now if we're happy with Desharnais.
Koivu was actually good defensively though.

I still can't get over replacing him with Gomez.

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01-21-2013, 10:03 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Here are the facts:

Habs fans were crying for years when Koivu was scoring 60-70 points a year, year-in and year-out, without having babied minutes, and playing with 2nd liners like Higgins and Ryder when he was at his most fortunate. Habs fans complained Koivu was too short at 5'10''. We needed more "size down the middle".

Now that 5'5'' Desharnais is scoring 60 points, with babied minutes, with two wingers better than anybody Koivu ever had for more than 10 games at a time, some habs fans are celebrating.

Koivu had 3 years of 60-70 points. And yes, we always need size down the middle, so we needed to add one centerman to help Koivu NOT be the 1st centerman he never was. We didn't do that. Same could be said for DD. Yet, there is a small difference. It's easier to celebrate success with DD, a players that was never drafted, and had to prove his worth everywhere he played, succeeding everywhere he played compared to Koivu this 1st rounder, presented to us as the saviour so much that we've traded everybody around him that could have helped him becoming a better player. Not Koivu's fault, but at one point, what people was tired of was to not some help given to Koivu.

But now we have to live with the team we have, and we are happy that this 1st line is doing as good as they did last year. Should we have 2 big centerman instead? Of course, till we get there, this 1st line has to remain intact and let's hope other lines will pick it up.

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01-21-2013, 10:07 PM
  #249
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It's clear DD has elite vision and creativity as his main assets and IMO they won't leave if he's moved to wing. His problem is he's only serviceable on D. I think he can belong in a top6, but we do need size at C, so though he is an asset, long term we need a better[more well rounded,bigger] player slotted in his spot. It could be Gally, it could be Eller, it could be someone else. My point is that he is an asset to the team, and should not be treated like he's useless because of his size. He can be a piece for us if we were to contend, just at wing.

For now, if eller and gally can't be that guy, there's no reason to take him off C. That's the reality. Eller to me could be a #2 a best, but that doesn't mean he is chopped liver, the guy will eventually blossom, that I'm sure. He just needs encouragement and the opportunity [hopefully the PP] to do it.

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01-21-2013, 10:10 PM
  #250
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Koivu was actually good defensively though.

I still can't get over replacing him with Gomez.
Speaking of Saku, 5 points in 2 games to start the season!

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