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P.K Subban Thread 4.0 - Still Unsigned Edition

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01-21-2013, 08:21 PM
  #751
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IMO if Bergevin loses Subban he may become worse than Rejean Houle.

Hypothetically, let's say Subban is traded for a 1st and 3rd rounder to a playoff contender because Bergevin doesn't want to "overpay" (6 years @ 4 million per), we're looking at a minimum 3 seasons in the bottom-5 of the NHL rankings. Even Houle didn't do that badly.
A lot harder to fall to the very bottom in the 90s, early 00s. Too many terrible expansion franchises.

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01-21-2013, 08:22 PM
  #752
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Maybe he'll enjoy sitting out the season....
If Subban sits out the season:

- Subban will go on to a great career elsewhere as Chelios and McDonagh did. He will make 50 or 60 million over the next 15 years and compete for cups, attend all-star games, and have an outside shot at Norris trophies and hall of fame membership.
- Bergevin's team will finish in the basement 3 years in a row. He will be fired as GM and it will nip his job prospects and future earning potential for the rest of his career. He will forever be known as a failure as Rejean Houle was.

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01-21-2013, 08:24 PM
  #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
IMO if Bergevin loses Subban he may become worse than Rejean Houle.

Hypothetically, let's say Subban is traded for a 1st and 3rd rounder to a playoff contender because Bergevin doesn't want to "overpay" (6 years @ 4 million per), we're looking at a minimum 3 seasons in the bottom-5 of the NHL rankings. Even Houle didn't do that badly.
Too bad he didnt.
Would have been good to have some top 5 picks back then.

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01-21-2013, 08:26 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If Subban sits out the season:

- Subban will go on to a great career elsewhere as Chelios and McDonagh did. He will make 50 or 60 million over the next 15 years and compete for cups, attend all-star games, and have an outside shot at Norris trophies and hall of fame membership.
- Bergevin's team will finish in the basement 3 years in a row. He will be fired as GM and it will nip his job prospects and future earning potential for the rest of his career. He will forever be known as a failure as Rejean Houle was.
Please repeat after me: "HE WON'T BE TRADED !"...

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01-21-2013, 08:27 PM
  #755
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Please repeat after me: "HE WON'T BE TRADED !"...
At certain point, it will be beyond MB's control.

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01-21-2013, 08:31 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If Subban sits out the season:

- Subban will go on to a great career elsewhere as Chelios and McDonagh did. He will make 50 or 60 million over the next 15 years and compete for cups, attend all-star games, and have an outside shot at Norris trophies and hall of fame membership.
- Bergevin's team will finish in the basement 3 years in a row. He will be fired as GM and it will nip his job prospects and future earning potential for the rest of his career. He will forever be known as a failure as Rejean Houle was.
If PK sits out the entire year it will be one of the biggest blunders in habs history. I don't think we're close there yet, but hypothetically speaking, if it were to happen MB should no longer be employed as a GM.

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01-21-2013, 08:32 PM
  #757
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If PK sits out the entire year it will be one of the biggest blunders in habs history. I don't think we're close there yet, but hypothetically speaking, if it were to happen MB should no longer be employed as a GM.
Molson won't let that happen.

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01-21-2013, 08:32 PM
  #758
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Whenever I think of the Subban situation it reminds me of something Pierre Mcguire once said about PK's teammates not hitting their sticks against the boards or congratulating him when PK fought (can't remember if it was his fight against the Bruins or the Jets). ' Should tell you a bit about what some of these guys think about PK' he said.

What scares me is that PK finds himself in a situation where his teammates won't stand up for him because they want to teach him a lesson, and opposing tough guys take notice. One hit or punch too many and voila some injury that puts that long term contract opportunity in peril.

From everything I've heard around the Subban story it seems pretty simple to me, Habs brass doesn't want a repeat of the Jose Theodore fiasco. simple as that. Young media-friendly kids in Montreal tend to implode, Meehan negotiated that contract and that almost ended Theo's career.

I think an intermediate contract would protect Subban on and off the ice, let him do his 'chemin de croix'. I agree that he's one of the best D man on this team (if not the best) right now, but accept a one or two year contract, don't play with the pressure of a 6 million dollar guy, enjoy the next two years because unless Markov rebounds from his injury you'll be the number one in Mtl for the long haul.

We all know what's going to happen soon enough if Markov can barely crack 40 points in the next 2 years, he won't be back
These guys weren't around when the Theodore fiasco happened, and it was a long time ago before the cap era. It's not at all the same situation either. PK is a special player, I don't understand how anybody would have doubts about PK not being legit. What's the risk here exactly?? That's he'll suddenly end up sucking?? Why??..
He's been nothing short of impressive ever since his OHL sophomore year, and every year it seems his progression speeds up. He's not perfect, still has ways to go, but we have a very good Dman here and he'll be great for years to come.
So, again, what's the risk here?

Not sure what the point of a bridge contract is for a guy like Subban? Prove what exactly during that time? that he can be top 15D in the NHL?? Is that the bar we're setting? Ridiculous. Might as well give him a long deal now at a cheaper price.

As for PM's comments, it's not the first time he'd say some dumb crap. This bad image of PK spread be media and fans is ridiculous and based on absolutely nothing. And I would trade any idiot that wouldn't cheer on a teammate because he finds a kid annoying. If some of his teammates wouldn't stand up for PK because they want him to learn a lesson (for what exactly??) then these guys need to GTFO because they're the ones actually being bad teammates.

This is just ridiculous. Sign the kid. We won't get any better return for him and he will just keep improving.

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01-21-2013, 08:33 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Molson won't let that happen.
Well he's certainly done a great job preventing that so far..

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01-21-2013, 08:34 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Please repeat after me: "HE WON'T BE TRADED !"...
That's assuming PK doesn't get pissed off to the point of demanding one.

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01-21-2013, 08:34 PM
  #761
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Molson won't let that happen.
I'm not sure having a GM needing an owner to intervene is a good idea either. Either way, it won't reflect positive on MB. I'm not saying either situation is probable, but if it comes to him sitting out, or Molson intervening, it's not a positive for habs fans.

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01-21-2013, 08:36 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
These guys weren't around when the Theodore fiasco happened, and it was a long time ago before the cap era. It's not at all the same situation either. PK is a special player, I don't understand how anybody would have doubts about PK not being legit. What's the risk here exactly?? That's he'll suddenly end up sucking?? Why??..
He's been nothing short of impressive ever since his OHL sophomore year, and every year it seems his progression speeds up. He's not perfect, still has ways to go, but we have a very good Dman here and he'll be great for years to come.
So, again, what's the risk here?

Not sure what the point of a bridge contract is for a guy like Subban? Prove what exactly during that time? that he can be top 15D in the NHL?? Is that the bar we're setting? Ridiculous. Might as well give him a long deal now at a cheaper price.


As for PM's comments, it's not the first time he'd say some dumb crap. This bad image of PK spread be media and fans is ridiculous and based on absolutely nothing. And I would trade any idiot that wouldn't cheer on a teammate because he finds a kid annoying. If some of his teammates wouldn't stand up for PK because they want him to learn a lesson (for what exactly??) then these guys need to GTFO because they're the ones actually being bad teammates.

This is just ridiculous. Sign the kid. We won't get any better return for him and he will just keep improving.
And if PK is demanding a no-trade/no-movement clause ?

There is no smoke without fire. PK has some off-ice issues as well as on-ice discipline issues with his constant yapping. Wonder why most of the opponents hate his guts ?

A bridge contract at a fair value like 4 million per year for one or two seasons is ideal.

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01-21-2013, 08:38 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Habtchum View Post
Molson won't let that happen.
It may be Molson who insisted that all players who just completed the ELC would only get a bridge contract. If that's the case, we have an owner who interfere with the GM's job. If it was MB who insisted on the bridge contract, we get an inflexible GM. Whatever the case, the Habs are screwed.

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01-21-2013, 08:41 PM
  #764
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Does anybody know if there is any validity to the hockeybuzz.com post saying that PK and the habs are talking somewhere around 6 years for 4 million per. Has anyone seen this from any other sources?

If it is true..let me say..THAT will make bergevin and absolute genius...that is an incredible deal...This guy could get 5.5-6 on the open market.

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01-21-2013, 08:43 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I'm not sure having a GM needing an owner to intervene is a good idea either. Either way, it won't reflect positive on MB. I'm not saying either situation is probable, but if it comes to him sitting out, or Molson intervening, it's not a positive for habs fans.
I find it incredibly frustrating that we're again starting a season without our #1 D. We've all spent the past three years anticipating Markov's multiple returns only to be without our new #1 when the team is finally healthy.

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01-21-2013, 08:43 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by bigtimehockeyfan999 View Post
Does anybody know if there is any validity to the hockeybuzz.com post saying that PK and the habs are talking somewhere around 6 years for 4 million per. Has anyone seen this from any other sources?

If it is true..let me say..THAT will make bergevin and absolute genius...that is an incredible deal...This guy could get 5.5-6 on the open market.
Why would PK and his agent accepts that deal ? It doesn't make much sense.

If PK would be willing to play on a two-year bridge contract, he would possibly make 6 million + for the rest of his carreer.

The most frustrating and puzzling is the fact that they had 8 months to agree on something, even having some kind of unofficial talks during the lockout - and that he was not on ice for Game 1 after such a long lockout.

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01-21-2013, 08:44 PM
  #767
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Wrong. The problems with the habs was the fact that they overpaid for marginal players, not very good ones. They over paid for players that were replaceable for far cheaper. These players from within their own system were often better players and they proceeded to give them away for nothing.

Trading for overpaid scrubs like gomez != signing your best player to market value. Not by a long shot.

Expensive contracts was never the problem, expensive contracts for ****** players was.
At the time that Gomez was signed, was he considered to be a scrub player?

Think long and hard on that one.

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01-21-2013, 08:45 PM
  #768
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At the time that Gomez was signed, was he considered to be a scrub player?

Think long and hard on that one.
Subban > Gomez.

Think long and hard on that one.

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01-21-2013, 08:47 PM
  #769
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At the time that Gomez was signed, was he considered to be a scrub player?

Think long and hard on that one.
Not yet, but Gomez is certainly on a declining path. With such an albatross contract, it's stupid to give the NYR Chris Higgins and McDo for his service.

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01-21-2013, 08:51 PM
  #770
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
IMO if Bergevin loses Subban he may become worse than Rejean Houle.

Hypothetically, let's say Subban is traded for a 1st and 3rd rounder to a playoff contender because Bergevin doesn't want to "overpay" (6 years @ 4 million per), we're looking at a minimum 3 seasons in the bottom-5 of the NHL rankings. Even Houle didn't do that badly.
Why would anyone trade PK for a 1st and a 3rd?

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01-21-2013, 08:54 PM
  #771
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Why would anyone trade PK for a 1st and a 3rd?
Because Bergevin is reducing his trade value.

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01-21-2013, 08:54 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Subban > Gomez.

Think long and hard on that one.
It is so easy to look back at the past and then identify the mistake that was made. So easy that even a 3 year old could see it. So your Subban > Gomez revelation is no big deal.

Overpriced contracts and the inability to manage assets was the Gainey/Gauthier hallmark.

Bergevin is showing that he is not that eager or willing to make the same mistakes that led us to the last place finish last season.

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01-21-2013, 08:56 PM
  #773
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
It is so easy to look back at the past and then identify the mistake that was made. So easy that even a 3 year old could see it. So your Subban > Gomez revelation is no big deal.

Overpriced contracts and the inability to manage assets was the Gainey/Gauthier hallmark.

Bergevin is showing that he is not that eager or willing to make the same mistakes that led us to the last place finish last season.
It was also easy to recognize the Gomez trade as horrible at the time. Most of the fanbase did.

Just as most of the fanbase now is seeing an oncoming train wreck if the Subban is not treated with respect.

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01-21-2013, 08:58 PM
  #774
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It is so easy to look back at the past and then identify the mistake that was made. So easy that even a 3 year old could see it. So your Subban > Gomez revelation is no big deal.

Overpriced contracts and the inability to manage assets was the Gainey/Gauthier hallmark.

Bergevin is showing that he is not that eager or willing to make the same mistakes that led us to the last place finish last season.
How do you know that? His job is to ice the best hockey team. One of his best player is not yet on the team. So far, I am not impress with MB.

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01-21-2013, 08:59 PM
  #775
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Not yet, but Gomez is certainly on a declining path. With such an albatross contract, it's stupid to give the NYR Chris Higgins and McDo for his service.
Were you an avid Habs fan when that trade was made?

Honestly, what was your reaction? Did you scream out in anguish that we traded Ryan McDonagh? Did you even know who he was? Or were you glad to get rid of Higgins who became sort of a whipping boy in Montreal?

Or have you become wise in seeing the idiocy of that trade after the fact?

Point being, Subban is not showing his loyalty to the Habs and is not building team chemistry right now. So we reward him with an overpriced contract because he is flashy and popular with the young fans in Montreal?

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