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Old
01-21-2013, 10:49 PM
  #651
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by Rick Nashty View Post
It's not telling at all, what is your obsession with the first two games of the season being some sort of huge benchmark? It's two games. Marian Gaborik didn't have as many points as Tarasenko does after his first two games last year and he scored 41 goals, how was that possible?



Go be a Pens fan?

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, the Pens are a well rounded team. They're not as defensive minded as we are sure, but they aren't exactly chopped liver. You don't win the cup without above average defense and goaltending.
They gave up an embarrassing amount of goals to the Flyers in the playoffs last year. Didn't look like great defense and goaltending. However, the Flyers could score with the best of them. The great well rounded Rangers were humiliated by them last year. Their 2-4 record against them was flattering as they were totally outclassed by an injury ravaged team who was at it's lowest point in the season and it took a miraculous performance from Lundqvist to win in one of those games. Besides, "well rounded team" means you have a lot of good defensemen, which we already have! Also it's one player against one player. Orpik is far less important to a team that a superstar forward.

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01-21-2013, 10:51 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
if the Rangers tried you know damn well they will take away the draft pick based on saving the NHL etc etc etc Devils would get first overall or some rival...
They don't have a first this year anyway. But they will be so bad that the NHL will feel bad for them and let them have it anyway.

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01-21-2013, 10:51 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Remember when Aaron Voros was on pace for 60 goals...amazing what small sample sizes can do for someones image.

Kreider was pretty good in the playoffs, but he's a bust now, a few months later...what will Tarasenko be when guys like Weber and Keith start being put on him like a shadow.
Voros looked like a guy with no skill that fell ass backwards into decent stats to start a season. Tarasenko looks like he has amazing skills.

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Old
01-21-2013, 10:53 PM
  #654
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Your reaching with the xenophobia. No offense.

Fast, Lindberg, Andersson, Spelling are American names?

St. Croix? Sounds French Canadian to me.

I see a team poised to make a run at the Cup. For several years. And your complaining because of some kid in St. Louis Missouri?
naw.

for the record, i said we draft swedes. and americans and canadians. that would include french canadians.

we dont draft russians. torts doesnt do russians.

please name one russian on our roster or on hartfords roster. ill wait.

organizational coincidence? nope.

wesern canadian farmboys we love though. hockey skills not required

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Old
01-21-2013, 11:07 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
naw.

for the record, i said we draft swedes. and americans and canadians. that would include french canadians.

we dont draft russians. torts doesnt do russians.

please name one russian on our roster or on hartfords roster. ill wait.

organizational coincidence? nope.

wesern canadian farmboys we love though. hockey skills not required
There's a bias for ugly hockey with a lot of coaches and front office men. That's why you get playoffs like last year. Hockey's dying because the important people think grinding hockey is better than creative skillful hockey. As much as people are complaining the NFL is trying showcase world class talent. It has become a pass happy league because for most people passing is more exciting than the ground and pound garbage the Jets want to promote (thankfully the Giants are usually an exciting team). The NBA is promoting offense. It was a garbage product in the mid 2000s, now teams are scoring again. The NHL tried to open up the game, but as long as coaches, GMs, and head scouts think the stereotypical NA game the NHL will be a relatively boring product. I love the sport but even I couldn't take anymore of the Coyotes of the world. Even the Bruins and Senators who finished 2nd and 4th in goals were an eyesore last year. It's boring grind em out hockey on offense. BTW, stereotypical NA game is not Crosby and Girioux. Those are NA players who play a more exciting brand of hockey. I'm talking about hockey from a long time ago, the dump and chase, grind them out, shoot, rebound, type of game.

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Old
01-21-2013, 11:59 PM
  #656
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Anisimov has looked like a legit top 6 player the first 2 games in Columbus. IIRC both him and Dubi were out against Datsyuk-Zetterberg most of the night, were creating chances and playing smart defensive hockey. I hope Arty can keep this up, and maybe one day become a great two-way player in this league.

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:01 AM
  #657
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Columbus is probably my 2nd favorite team. They have at least 4 former Rangers on it.

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:04 AM
  #658
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
naw.

for the record, i said we draft swedes. and americans and canadians. that would include french canadians.

we dont draft russians. torts doesnt do russians.

please name one russian on our roster or on hartfords roster. ill wait.

organizational coincidence? nope.

wesern canadian farmboys we love though. hockey skills not required
That's funny because Torts won the cup with some guy name Khabibulin in net. Where's he from again?

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:08 AM
  #659
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Though not exactly Russian (Ukrainian) Torts seemed to love Fedetenko. Khabibulin was his goalie, as pointed out. He was open to giving Valentenko a chance and I doubt Arty got run out of town; he was moved in a blockbuster deal. Cherepanov would be a Ranger today... his death had nothing to do with Torts. I don't see a specifically anti Russian bias. Do you realize that there are not actually that many Russians in the NHL in total?

Edit: I went through the active roster of every team in the NHL and included everything from rookies like Grigoreno, Yakupov and Komorov (and Galchenyuk, whose not even REALLY Russian) to guys who are barely NHLers anymore like Khabibulin or Kovalev, and counted everything from Russian, Ukrainian, Kazakhstanian, Belarusian all under the "Russian" heading and there are only 37 players TOTAL from all of those nationalities, including rookies and guys who are likely done after this year/might not even get ice time this year, playing in the NHL right now.


Last edited by SERE 24: 01-22-2013 at 12:25 AM.
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Old
01-22-2013, 12:32 AM
  #660
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Though not exactly Russian (Ukrainian) Torts seemed to love Fedetenko. Khabibulin was his goalie, as pointed out. He was open to giving Valentenko a chance and I doubt Arty got run out of town; he was moved in a blockbuster deal. Cherepanov would be a Ranger today... his death had nothing to do with Torts. I don't see a specifically anti Russian bias. Do you realize that there are not actually that many Russians in the NHL in total?

Edit: I went through the active roster of every team in the NHL and included everything from rookies like Grigoreno, Yakupov and Komorov (and Galchenyuk, whose not even REALLY Russian) to guys who are barely NHLers anymore like Khabibulin or Kovalev, and counted everything from Russian, Ukrainian, Kazakhstanian, Belarusian all under the "Russian" heading and there are only 37 players TOTAL from all of those nationalities, including rookies and guys who are likely done after this year/might not even get ice time this year, playing in the NHL right now.
LOL at you trying to bring logic into this debate...

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:39 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Though not exactly Russian (Ukrainian) Torts seemed to love Fedetenko. Khabibulin was his goalie, as pointed out. He was open to giving Valentenko a chance and I doubt Arty got run out of town; he was moved in a blockbuster deal. Cherepanov would be a Ranger today... his death had nothing to do with Torts. I don't see a specifically anti Russian bias. Do you realize that there are not actually that many Russians in the NHL in total?

Edit: I went through the active roster of every team in the NHL and included everything from rookies like Grigoreno, Yakupov and Komorov (and Galchenyuk, whose not even REALLY Russian) to guys who are barely NHLers anymore like Khabibulin or Kovalev, and counted everything from Russian, Ukrainian, Kazakhstanian, Belarusian all under the "Russian" heading and there are only 37 players TOTAL from all of those nationalities, including rookies and guys who are likely done after this year/might not even get ice time this year, playing in the NHL right now.
This is actually a fantastic post. I hadn't realized the number was so tiny.

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:44 AM
  #662
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
This is actually a fantastic post. I hadn't realized the number was so tiny.
Yeah, even including Khabibulin (probably done), Kovalev (just came back) and Galchenyuk (skates for USA) there are only 29 actual "Russians". The other 8 are Ukrainian, Belarusian, etc.

I'm also not sure Grigorenko or Komorov are going to stick in the NHL all year. The number is really low.

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:53 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Yeah, even including Khabibulin (probably done), Kovalev (just came back) and Galchenyuk (skates for USA) there are only 29 actual "Russians". The other 8 are Ukrainian, Belarusian, etc.

I'm also not sure Grigorenko or Komorov are going to stick in the NHL all year. The number is really low.
Komarov is Finnish, though.

I don't see a bias with the Rangers. Glen went out and got Gaborik, who is somehwat your typical "russian style" player, a "Bure light" (for the lack of a better comparison). Whoever makes the team better. I think that if Datsyuk, Malkin or Kopitar had been in the position of Nash in the summer, Glen would have traded for either of them the same way he traded for Nash.

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:55 AM
  #664
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Originally Posted by tomcatNYR View Post
Komarov is Finnish, though.

I don't see a bias with the Rangers. Glen went out and got Gaborik, who is somehwat your typical "russian style" player, a "Bure light" (for the lack of a better comparison). Whoever makes the team better. I think that if Datsyuk, Malkin or Kopitar had been in the position of Nash in the summer, Glen would have traded for either of them the same way he traded for Nash.
I just used the roster listings from one site and they had the russian flag next to his name so I counted him. It only serves to lower the total anyone. I think the point is he (and Galchenyuk) has Russian ancestry so they counted them as Russians even though they associate themselves with different countries. Either way, I counted both when neither seems to really count. Just lowers the number and further proves the point.

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01-22-2013, 01:01 AM
  #665
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Originally Posted by MaximusT View Post
Anisimov has looked like a legit top 6 player the first 2 games in Columbus. IIRC both him and Dubi were out against Datsyuk-Zetterberg most of the night, were creating chances and playing smart defensive hockey. I hope Arty can keep this up, and maybe one day become a great two-way player in this league.
Yeah I watched that game. Anisimov looked pretty good most of the night. There were some shifts where you didn't hear his name or notice him much, but for the most part he was solid. Dubinsky's effort is and always will be there. He did make a couple of stupid plays that were small and might not be noticed by the average fan but it led to goals or turnovers that kept his team pinned longer and there line on the longer in general. The two were on the ice for both of Detroit's goals. CBJ took too many penalties. I thought we were bad but damn. But then again they weren't taking penalties against the Penguins, even though Detroit did look good on the PP. Dubinsky needs to get his offensive game going.

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:33 AM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
if anyone cares i let you know if Redden plays tonight.. im getting ready to watch Predators and Blues...
Tentative first game for Redden appears to be slated for Thursday.

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:05 AM
  #667
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Now give me a list of NA players that busted for him. I'm sure plenty did. Some Russians bust! I guess they're not perfect.

Edit: Are you sure Mihalik is Russian? First name, yeah, but last name sounds Czech/Slovak.
Tampa drafted awful when Torts was there, if I remember correctly for a period of several years they only got Paul Ranger.

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:30 AM
  #668
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Not missing this guy at ALL...

He struggled here...

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:33 AM
  #669
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
I just used the roster listings from one site and they had the russian flag next to his name so I counted him. It only serves to lower the total anyone. I think the point is he (and Galchenyuk) has Russian ancestry so they counted them as Russians even though they associate themselves with different countries. Either way, I counted both when neither seems to really count. Just lowers the number and further proves the point.
KHLs appearance on the scene has had a huge impact here. Now a large contingency of mid-tier players (and some enigmatic top enders too) that before all would have been in NA stay at home and make equal or even better money there instead. For the players it is win/win. Get the cash, be a hero in your homeland and stay there. If it were the other way around you would see similar scenario.

There has also been a large vacuum of other nationalities mid level skillset players going to the KHL too. All this creates uncertainty about the Russian players willingness to come over and play there by NHL GMs. Totally rational and expected behavior there.

This being said, it puts the NHL scouting system under pressure to find the right players and right personalities/attitudes amongst the Russian talent pool. If they do not like what they hear or see, maybe they then pass. This might have been the case with Tarasenko, I dunno.

Regardless, I myself was clamoring like crazy for us to pick him at #10 and was extremely disappointed when we did not. But I based this view on talent level, not a bunch of other intangibles I know nothing about and therefore fel i must respect. I do know from reliable source that GK had an enormous stiffy for Big Mac and he was going to be the pick if he was available basically no matter what.

Clark is an extremely headstrong guy that has been very good at finding some mid/lower picks for the NYR organisation, but he is also a very stereotyping guy (I will not say where I got this tidbit of info from but it is very good source) that has a very big fondness for certain player types. And yes - also nationalities. For better or worse. I have heard he seldom listens to what his "team" of advisors (ie scouts) tells him in the end, and he has got total authority from GS to make the calls and he does. This being said, he has injected a huge amount of good players into our organization for some time and we should be happy with that. Perhaps not optimal - but pretty darned good.

In the end, the KHLs presence is changing the league. Definitely. Going back to a more NA game than 10 years ago. Definitely with a lower overall skillset as lots of talent is now in Europe. It is what it is, like it or not. Adapting to this is important and apparent developing phase is imperative for all teams in the league. So even if I ***** and moan over not choosing Tarasenko at times, my better half knows that this might have been based on things we simply do not know. Or that we actually made the wrong call based on unfortunate preferences and attitudes. Whatever i think matters not - done deal is a done deal. Nonetheless - now gotta root for and support Big Mac and all our players now as that is the reality of the situation.

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01-22-2013, 07:00 AM
  #670
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Just a little fun fact:

The Rangers had four Russians on the cup championship team in'94.

Kovalov, Zubov, Nemchinov, and Karpotsev.

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01-22-2013, 07:04 AM
  #671
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KHLs appearance on the scene has had a huge impact here. Now a large contingency of mid-tier players (and some enigmatic top enders too) that before all would have been in NA stay at home and make equal or even better money there instead. For the players it is win/win. Get the cash, be a hero in your homeland and stay there. If it were the other way around you would see similar scenario.

There has also been a large vacuum of other nationalities mid level skillset players going to the KHL too. All this creates uncertainty about the Russian players willingness to come over and play there by NHL GMs. Totally rational and expected behavior there.

This being said, it puts the NHL scouting system under pressure to find the right players and right personalities/attitudes amongst the Russian talent pool. If they do not like what they hear or see, maybe they then pass. This might have been the case with Tarasenko, I dunno.

Regardless, I myself was clamoring like crazy for us to pick him at #10 and was extremely disappointed when we did not. But I based this view on talent level, not a bunch of other intangibles I know nothing about and therefore fel i must respect. I do know from reliable source that GK had an enormous stiffy for Big Mac and he was going to be the pick if he was available basically no matter what.

Clark is an extremely headstrong guy that has been very good at finding some mid/lower picks for the NYR organisation, but he is also a very stereotyping guy (I will not say where I got this tidbit of info from but it is very good source) that has a very big fondness for certain player types. And yes - also nationalities. For better or worse. I have heard he seldom listens to what his "team" of advisors (ie scouts) tells him in the end, and he has got total authority from GS to make the calls and he does. This being said, he has injected a huge amount of good players into our organization for some time and we should be happy with that. Perhaps not optimal - but pretty darned good.

In the end, the KHLs presence is changing the league. Definitely. Going back to a more NA game than 10 years ago. Definitely with a lower overall skillset as lots of talent is now in Europe. It is what it is, like it or not. Adapting to this is important and apparent developing phase is imperative for all teams in the league. So even if I ***** and moan over not choosing Tarasenko at times, my better half knows that this might have been based on things we simply do not know. Or that we actually made the wrong call based on unfortunate preferences and attitudes. Whatever i think matters not - done deal is a done deal. Nonetheless - now gotta root for and support Big Mac and all our players now as that is the reality of the situation.
He should lose his job over that pick

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Old
01-22-2013, 07:15 AM
  #672
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Just a little fun fact:

The Rangers had four Russians on the cup championship team in'94.

Kovalov, Zubov, Nemchinov, and Karpotsev.
All of these guys were key members of that 94 team, but I really think Nemchinov was somewhat unhearalded. He was a total workhorse out there. Brought it every shift.

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01-22-2013, 07:17 AM
  #673
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He should lose his job over that pick
Seriously?!

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01-22-2013, 07:20 AM
  #674
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All of these guys were key members of that 94 team, but I really think Nemchinov was somewhat unhearalded. He was a total workhorse out there. Brought it every shift.
Yee, both Nemchinov's and Tikkanen's play game in and game out was often unrecognized but was a key reason why they won the cup.

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01-22-2013, 08:41 AM
  #675
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Yeah, even including Khabibulin (probably done), Kovalev (just came back) and Galchenyuk (skates for USA) there are only 29 actual "Russians". The other 8 are Ukrainian, Belarusian, etc.

I'm also not sure Grigorenko or Komorov are going to stick in the NHL all year. The number is really low.
Honestly, it's nice that Americans try not to lump Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia together, but this is not like calling every Asian, Chinese. Those 3 countries were one country and are very culturally similar (especially central (Kiev) to Eastern Ukraine). They all have the KHL option. Still your point stands since there aren't a lot of those guys either. If there's no Anti-Russian bias then this decision was even worse.


Last edited by SnowblindNYR: 01-22-2013 at 09:36 AM.
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