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01-21-2013, 10:50 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
He still got those chances from playing well. Sure he didn't convert on them, but he was in the right position, and created chances for himself. It's not like everyone stopped the play and handed him the puck until he shot
How is that different than most years where he's in a good spot and whiffs on a nice pass?

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01-21-2013, 10:58 PM
  #577
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?????? Not sure where we went from talking about the Oilers to analyzing Canucks blunders. But whatever. Eberle made Edler look like a pylon. So what does that have to do the conversation about the Canucks first goal?
The POINT was that even $5 million dollar elite top pairing dmen make obvious glaring **** ups in early season games when players are still full of rust and aren't up to mid-season form.

Over-analysis of these early games is probably not very useful because we aren't getting a "true" view of what these players have to offer. Not saying we can't discuss anything because that's what message boards are for but essentially for all these players... these games are basically just getting back into the NHL speed and flow again and plenty of screw ups WILL happen.

These aren't exhibition games but feel like it in a lot of ways.

Detroit 6-0 loss? Vancouver loses 7-3 at home? Not likely to see those results soon again.

It's the Oilers season opener, on the road versus a rival that **** all over them many times in the past, with basically 3 rookies in the lineup (Harti essentially a rookie as well)... they still sucked it up and pulled out a win from 2 zip down.

Plenty of positives to focus on there and the Nucks obviously made just as many if not more mistakes than the Oilers and they are supposed to be the better team... President's trophy winners and all.

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01-21-2013, 10:58 PM
  #578
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How is that different than most years where he's in a good spot and whiffs on a nice pass?
Because now he isn't playing 1st line minutes and being relied on for offense.

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01-21-2013, 11:00 PM
  #579
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Because now he isn't playing 1st line minutes and being relied on for offense.
Touche. A very valid point. I guess I am still thinking in terms of his contract instead of his role now.

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01-21-2013, 11:01 PM
  #580
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Was he? He looked exactly like Horcoff to me. Decent defensively and on the draw, fumbled a bunch of scoring chances.


I thought he looked good. Had a few takeaways, some nice chances on net (obviously he doesn't have very good scoring touch or he could've buried some of those) but it's still good to see he's getting chances early.

Shouldn't be surprised Horcoff is ready to go though considering he's always been one of the most fit players. Hopefully Krueger continues to manage their icetime so they don't burn out early again.

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01-21-2013, 11:03 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Because now he isn't playing 1st line minutes and being relied on for offense.
If this team wants to make the playoffs their 3C has got to put a few of those away.

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01-21-2013, 11:04 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Because now he isn't playing 1st line minutes and being relied on for offense.
which is to say he never had the offence to deserve those minutes. Now that we have ACTUAL first line players he is what he always has been - a good soldier who can fill an important role, and likely not much more than that.

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01-21-2013, 11:05 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
I thought he looked good. Had a few takeaways, some nice chances on net (obviously he doesn't have very good scoring touch or he could've buried some of those) but it's still good to see he's getting chances early.

Shouldn't be surprised Horcoff is ready to go though considering he's always been one of the most fit players. Hopefully Krueger continues to manage their icetime so they don't burn out early again.
Yeah, I am being too hard on him. He did do good things out there. Not 5.5M level of good things, but certainly a 3rd line C level of good things.

Bolded is really the key, imo. If Horcoff and Smyth keep their minutes down so they aren't burnt out in a month, we could be in a good position(standings wise) near the deadline.

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01-21-2013, 11:13 PM
  #584
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If this team wants to make the playoffs their 3C has got to put a few of those away.
Keep in mind that it was game 1. Eberle whiffed on a guaranteed goal on the powerplay as well. It happens.

I bet Horcoff scores 10-15 goals which would be good for a 3rd liner.

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01-21-2013, 11:16 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Yeah, I am being too hard on him. He did do good things out there. Not 5.5M level of good things, but certainly a 3rd line C level of good things.

Bolded is really the key, imo. If Horcoff and Smyth keep their minutes down so they aren't burnt out in a month, we could be in a good position(standings wise) near the deadline.
Yeah, it seems to me that the catch is all about the PK. How much do we play the old Cup run alumni in the PK versus settling down a mediocre 5-on-5 situation and getting the game back on our terms?

I don't envy Krueger's job. That being said, based on this first game and the handful we saw last year, I really think I'm liking his instinct for the flow of the game. It could be just a matter of building that same trust with the players that they're all going to have a shot at appropriate ice time... and the juices start flowing.

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01-22-2013, 12:02 AM
  #586
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Based on that picture I'd say that Whitney made a bad play and Gagner watched Kassian come down the middle without tying up his stick, he should've seen Whitney taking off after Sedin (which IMO was a boneheaded move with Nail in pursuit) or at least known that the front of the net was vacated. IMO it looked like all kinds of fail for Whitney and Gagner. I'm still trying to figure out why Whitney thought that he should chase after the guy that was already covered though, wtf was that?

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01-22-2013, 12:02 AM
  #587
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Yeah, I am being too hard on him. He did do good things out there. Not 5.5M level of good things, but certainly a 3rd line C level of good things.

Bolded is really the key, imo. If Horcoff and Smyth keep their minutes down so they aren't burnt out in a month, we could be in a good position(standings wise) near the deadline.
He'll never live up to that contract unfortunately


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01-22-2013, 12:05 AM
  #588
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Can't we just enjoy a win over Vancouver? We might not beat them again this year.

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01-22-2013, 12:37 AM
  #589
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Based on that picture I'd say that Whitney made a bad play and Gagner watched Kassian come down the middle without tying up his stick, he should've seen Whitney taking off after Sedin (which IMO was a boneheaded move with Nail in pursuit) or at least known that the front of the net was vacated. IMO it looked like all kinds of fail for Whitney and Gagner. I'm still trying to figure out why Whitney thought that he should chase after the guy that was already covered though, wtf was that?
I think Nail sticking with Sedin there kind of threw everyone off on that play. Classically you have the wingers covering the points while the center takes the high forward (in this case, Kassian). The defensemen are usually working with the center in containing the forwards. In this case Yakupov took Whitney's assignment (forward along the left side) and Whitney was a bit stuck in limbo figuring out what to do.


Look how ridiculous that picture is. Hemsky (RW) is busy covering Yakupov's post (Vancouver RD), Whitney is stuck in limbo, and Gagner is watching as Kassian breaks in. Sedin had 2 beautiful passing opportunities there: 1) Kassian, and 2) the completely uncovered Vancouver LD who Hemsky abandoned to cover Yakupov's man (not in the picture).

Proper adjustment would have been having Whitney take the darting Kassian, while Gagner gets in the passing lane to cover the LD - but that was unrealistic for such a fast-developing play. In essence the expectation is that the players follow through on their original assignments (Gagner checks Kassian, Whitney gets suck in limbo)
In essence, the goal is the fault of all 3 players - Yakupov, Whitney and Gagner.

Yakupov - broke with systems and chased a forward behind the net and along the boards, throwing off Whitney.
Whitney - for not adjusting to the switch and instead bone-headedly chasing Sedin+Yakupov to the left boards, which wouldn't have been TOO bad of a play if Gagner hadn't screwed up
Gagner - responsible for the high forward (gearing for one-timer or crashing net). Clearly did nothing to impede Kassian's progress to the net or his shot.

Overall blame breakdown IMO would be 25% Yakupov, 50% Gagner, 25% Whitney.


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Old
01-22-2013, 12:38 AM
  #590
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Based on that picture I'd say that Whitney made a bad play and Gagner watched Kassian come down the middle without tying up his stick, he should've seen Whitney taking off after Sedin (which IMO was a boneheaded move with Nail in pursuit) or at least known that the front of the net was vacated. IMO it looked like all kinds of fail for Whitney and Gagner. I'm still trying to figure out why Whitney thought that he should chase after the guy that was already covered though, wtf was that?
Well, without placing too much blame, coming out of the corner, Yak was taking a shortcut to where he thought his man would go. The pass came to Kassian directly btwn goal and where Yak should have been if he were "goal side".

Meanwhile, as you've said Gags was late getting to his man and Whitney had a brain fart.

It took three minor errors and a world class pass to create that goal.

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01-22-2013, 12:43 AM
  #591
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Can't we just enjoy a win over Vancouver? We might not beat them again this year.
No kidding

I can't even remember the last time we won a game in Vancouver.

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01-22-2013, 12:45 AM
  #592
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No kidding

I can't even remember the last time we won a game in Vancouver.
I do. Omark and MPS went nuts against a stacked Vancouver team, while they were literally our top line with Hartikainen. Spring 2011.

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01-22-2013, 12:49 AM
  #593
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I think Nail sticking with Sedin there kind of threw everyone off on that play. Classically you have the wingers covering the points while the center takes the high forward (in this case, Kassian). The defensemen are usually working with the center in containing the forwards. In this case Yakupov took Whitney's assignment (forward along the left side) and Whitney was a bit stuck in limbo figuring out what to do.


Look how ridiculous that picture is. Hemsky (RW) is busy covering Yakupov's post (Vancouver RD), Whitney is stuck in limbo, and Gagner is watching as Kassian breaks in. Sedin had 2 beautiful passing opportunities there: 1) Kassian, and 2) the completely uncovered Vancouver LD who Hemsky abandoned to cover Yakupov's man.

In essence, the goal is the fault of all 3 players - Yakupov, Whitney and Gagner.

Yakupov - broke with systems and chased a forward behind the net and along the boards, throwing off Whitney.
Whitney - for not adjusting to the switch and instead bone-headedly chasing Sedin+Yakupov to the left boards, which wouldn't have been TOO bad of a play if Gagner hadn't screwed up
Gagner - responsible for the high forward (gearing for one-timer or crashing net). Clearly did nothing to impede Kassian's progress to the net or his shot.

Overall blame breakdown IMO would be 25% Yakupov, 50% Gagner, 25% Whitney.
Haha... Funny. I see it similarly. I'd forgotten Yak ended behind the net via chase. I think we can both agree he didn't *really* have his guy.

I'd still put more on Whitney though... Or rather, I expect fwds to occasionally be late to a man (or clueless). (bias declared, I'm a goalie). But Whitney should be the rock that saves everyones skin I'm this situation. All he has to do is stand 2 feet outside the crease and protect the house until inspiration takes hold.

And by the way... Where was potter? I've forgotten on this particular play, but I certainly noticed a half dozen wtfihd monents from him last night.

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01-22-2013, 12:49 AM
  #594
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There were no glaring errors on that play just a beautiful spinorama pass,those are few and far between and are what they are.The man defending the passer had to keep his stick on the outside to take the passing lane away,it was the same change of direction Schultz used to avoid the big hit behind his net.Kassian didnt look like a threat because of the player positioning,there was no conventional pass available to him,and really he hit it perfect like they do in practise I am sure as it had set play written all over it.Longer sticks for the defenders might have helped.

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01-22-2013, 12:49 AM
  #595
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I certainly didn't see much of the new and improved Whitney last night.
He still looks awkward and his lateral movement does not look good. Its just 1 game but he has a long ways to go before he is anything more than a depth dman.
Probably the worst dman on the ice for the Oilers.

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01-22-2013, 12:58 AM
  #596
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I think Nail sticking with Sedin there kind of threw everyone off on that play. Classically you have the wingers covering the points while the center takes the high forward (in this case, Kassian). The defensemen are usually working with the center in containing the forwards. In this case Yakupov took Whitney's assignment (forward along the left side) and Whitney was a bit stuck in limbo figuring out what to do.


Look how ridiculous that picture is. Hemsky (RW) is busy covering Yakupov's post (Vancouver RD), Whitney is stuck in limbo, and Gagner is watching as Kassian breaks in. Sedin had 2 beautiful passing opportunities there: 1) Kassian, and 2) the completely uncovered Vancouver LD who Hemsky abandoned to cover Yakupov's man (not in the picture).

Proper adjustment would have been having Whitney take the darting Kassian, while Gagner gets in the passing lane to cover the LD - but that was unrealistic for such a fast-developing play. In essence the expectation is that the players follow through on their original assignments (Gagner checks Kassian, Whitney gets suck in limbo)
In essence, the goal is the fault of all 3 players - Yakupov, Whitney and Gagner.

Yakupov - broke with systems and chased a forward behind the net and along the boards, throwing off Whitney.
Whitney - for not adjusting to the switch and instead bone-headedly chasing Sedin+Yakupov to the left boards, which wouldn't have been TOO bad of a play if Gagner hadn't screwed up
Gagner - responsible for the high forward (gearing for one-timer or crashing net). Clearly did nothing to impede Kassian's progress to the net or his shot.

Overall blame breakdown IMO would be 25% Yakupov, 50% Gagner, 25% Whitney.
you dont even know waht the system is

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01-22-2013, 01:29 AM
  #597
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you dont even know waht the system is
That's fair. I wasn't really paying attention to what the forwards were doing for the bulk of the game. Just from observing most NHL teams, however, I've noticed the wings cover their respective defensemen, and don't go chasing forwards behind the net. If a forward is going to go chasing opposition forwards around the net it's usually going to be the C (I laugh at the thought of Gagner winning a puck battle along the boards in the D-zone)

I'm not going to pretend I know what Krueger's "system" is - but I think it's pretty apparent what the standard expectations in terms of own-zone play are for each player.

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01-22-2013, 01:30 AM
  #598
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Haha... Funny. I see it similarly. I'd forgotten Yak ended behind the net via chase. I think we can both agree he didn't *really* have his guy.

I'd still put more on Whitney though... Or rather, I expect fwds to occasionally be late to a man (or clueless). (bias declared, I'm a goalie). But Whitney should be the rock that saves everyones skin I'm this situation. All he has to do is stand 2 feet outside the crease and protect the house until inspiration takes hold.

And by the way... Where was potter? I've forgotten on this particular play, but I certainly noticed a half dozen wtfihd monents from him last night.
He's the green circle, appropriately taking his man (H.Sedin).

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01-22-2013, 01:34 AM
  #599
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I think we're going a bit above and beyond analyzing this goal.

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01-22-2013, 01:39 AM
  #600
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I think we're going a bit above and beyond analyzing this goal.
I guess we're just not used to dealing with this "winning" thing yet. Gotta find someone to blame haha.

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