HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

P.K Subban Thread 4.0 - Still Unsigned Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-21-2013, 11:18 PM
  #851
JustAHabFan
Registered User
 
JustAHabFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Personally if the deal is close to 4 million per (however long) I say sign it and get the **** on with the season. If he is asking for over 5 on a long term contract get some offers for him and know your options.
I think PK deserves the same salary as Myers (5.5M). I only look to trade him if he insist on 6M.

JustAHabFan is offline  
Old
01-21-2013, 11:21 PM
  #852
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I think even those of us who don't believe in tanking realize how bad this team is right now.
People attacked me vehemently when I predicted 11th-15th place in the summer. All I heard was "We're getting Markov !!!!!!".

I'd expect it would require more than 1 bad game for people to get on the pro-rebuild bandwagon.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
01-21-2013, 11:30 PM
  #853
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'm surprised to see you endorse tanking the season.
You're being facetious. Everyone knows that your surgical tanking is based on trading veterans, not youths. Bergevin has to make the best of a bad situation. He'd rather keep Subban but there are limits. I fully approve of his not giving in to unreasonable demands. Let some other GM negotiate with Meehan while the Habs enjoy certainty as they rebuild for the future.

Teufelsdreck is offline  
Old
01-21-2013, 11:31 PM
  #854
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
People attacked me vehemently when I predicted 11th-15th place in the summer. All I heard was "We're getting Markov !!!!!!".

I'd expect it would require more than 1 bad game for people to get on the pro-rebuild bandwagon.
Put it this way, I was very optimistic going into last season. And while there was some bad luck last year, we've only gotten worse since then. Markov might have been a difference maker last year, but now it's too late.

I still disagree this team needs to be dismantled completely but this year is all about getting a draft pick and trading Kaberle and Gionta. Besides that see what happens.

The problem is the new management has done very little to give me faith so far, and that's what is more concerning than a 3 month season. Last year was terrible but considering I gave up hope of hockey this year to begin with, I can tolerate 3 bad months of the Habs in exchange for a Jones, Lindholm, Barkov, Drouin or Mackinnon.

Et le But is offline  
Old
01-21-2013, 11:35 PM
  #855
Jmac1160*
Gomez-"Sorry Coach"
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,098
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
Your saying Myers is better than PK? On what planet are you living Pk is better offensively and defensively than Myers plus they have roughly the same age.

Myers scored 26 points last year and 36 the year before he is regressing more than he is improving, and he wasn't sharp at all in his own zone last year. I'd take Fowler before him right now he is a lot better than Myers offensively and he is improving at least.

Jack Johnson one of the worst defensive player in the league is paid 4.2 millions and brings roughly the same offense than PK give me a break Pk being 23 deserve easily 5 mil.
2010-2011 37 points..thats so awful. Also nobody knows what planet your living on if you didn't notice that Myers only played 55 games last yr and had 26 points. Yea really regressing. Your hilarious.

PK was also pretty terrible last yr in his own end. Yes not everything was his fault but he made more mistakes last yr than his rookie year on average. I clearly remember people on here saying "oh wow PK is on the ice for another goal agianst" or "sophomore jinx" ect.

Will he be better than Myers? I have no idea but they could be in the same class.

FYI do some research before rambling on about crap

Jmac1160* is offline  
Old
01-21-2013, 11:38 PM
  #856
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
2010-2011 37 points..thats so awful. Also nobody knows what planet your living on if you didn't notice that Myers only played 55 games last yr and had 26 points. Yea really regressing. Your hilarious.

PK was also pretty terrible last yr in his own end. Yes not everything was his fault but he made more mistakes last yr than his rookie year on average. I clearly remember people on here saying "oh wow PK is on the ice for another goal agianst" or "sophomore jinx" ect.

Will he be better than Myers? I have no idea but they could be in the same class.

FYI do some research before rambling on about crap
Is that true?

NotProkofievian is offline  
Old
01-21-2013, 11:40 PM
  #857
Jmac1160*
Gomez-"Sorry Coach"
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,098
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You say that you don't care, but you'll be really pissed if the Habs miss the playoffs for four or five years.
Yes cause we would use the free cap space from his ridicules demands for nothing and just sign trade or resign anyone for. Your right

I love PK and want him back but for him to be asking for this much this early in his unproven career is just crazy. Odds are he will be a star but we would be dumb if we signed him for 5-8 years for anything over 4 mil per

Jmac1160* is offline  
Old
01-21-2013, 11:41 PM
  #858
Jmac1160*
Gomez-"Sorry Coach"
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,098
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Is that true?
No link or proof but if you look at past GDT's theres more *****ing about PK than ever. He was awful in his own end at times.

Jmac1160* is offline  
Old
01-21-2013, 11:43 PM
  #859
THE HOFF
Registered User
 
THE HOFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Thing is, you either sign a guy or don't. If you can't sign a guy for all sorts of reasons, you trade him. And you do it while the value is pretty high. I don't agree with that bridge contracts Bergevin "seems" to have a fixation on. So I would not agree with a trade. But if HE believes that,s how it has to go, well that's how it has to go. But if the players will never agree to it, you don't make a player sit out the way it could happen. So you trade him. But you had to do it when it was clearly in the summer that it would not happen. I guess that both believes the other party will change their minds, seems that Bergevin won't. So PK, in the end, will actually have to accept whatever offer Bergevin gives him. By doing so, unless we major overpay him, you can bet what you want that PK will do his best to get the **** out of here as soon as he's UFA. And if Bergevin can't play his cards properly, we might lose Subban for nothing. All this for a bridge contract? I guess I've mentioned all the worst that could happen....but it could. Can we take the chance of it happening? Not only is the situation bad for the relation that PK has with his teamates but now it will be bad between PK and the team.

All this, again, because of a bridge contract. All this because we have to give a small contract for players that finish their ELC because we're not so sure of them. Instead of having a vision and knowing that this player will be solid for us, so instead of waiting 1 or 2 years and THEN having to pay an incredibly high amount of money, we could actually save some right now by signing a long term with a better cap hit. A salary that "could" also be tradeable 'cause the cap hit might not be as dramatic as it could be in 2 years.
great points made here...

I disagree with the assumption that PK would sign a long term deal that would be cap friendly. We would save more now ... but what makes you think he's going to ink it? If you pay PK more than 4m per ... you're paying his ''potential'' ... and once you start doing this ALL contract negos are going to be harder. All the young and promissing players will have a starting point to compare to. PK is the odd man out, not overloved by his peers and his opponents ... a little bit flashy ... cocky .... the PERFECT guy for Bergevin to bend over and make an example of. As the days will go by PK can say all he wants about how he loves this town and the fans... truth is people will rally behind bergevin and find it more and more odd that PK is staying home to try and earn undeserved money instead of showing up at the rink. my two cents. pressure is on him, and he's playing it in a dumb way. if you like the town and you're worth 4m ... why can't you delay that ufa year ? not like bergevin is reluctant to throw money at performing players ... carey being a good example. dumb negos from subban side imho.

THE HOFF is offline  
Old
01-21-2013, 11:47 PM
  #860
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
No link or proof but if you look at past GDT's theres more *****ing about PK than ever. He was awful in his own end at times.
I wonder what the numbers say.

NotProkofievian is offline  
Old
01-21-2013, 11:48 PM
  #861
JustAHabFan
Registered User
 
JustAHabFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
Yes cause we would use the free cap space from his ridicules demands for nothing and just sign trade or resign anyone for. Your right

I love PK and want him back but for him to be asking for this much this early in his unproven career is just crazy. Odds are he will be a star but we would be dumb if we signed him for 5-8 years for anything over 4 mil per
I disagree. A few comparable young players like Tyler Myers signed long term deal (7 years/38.5M) after their ELC. If PK wants a long term contract, I think MB should really negotiate hard. A 5/6 years contract at 5M per year should be OK IMHO.

JustAHabFan is offline  
Old
01-21-2013, 11:52 PM
  #862
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
You're being facetious. Everyone knows that your surgical tanking is based on trading veterans, not youths. Bergevin has to make the best of a bad situation. He'd rather keep Subban but there are limits. I fully approve of his not giving in to unreasonable demands. Let some other GM negotiate with Meehan while the Habs enjoy certainty as they rebuild for the future.
Trading Subban for picks and prospects = tanking.

It's stupid tanking as well, because it no longer makes the team worse short-term, it's also likely to make us worse long-term.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
01-21-2013, 11:56 PM
  #863
groovejuice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Is that true?
Sometimes statistics don't tell the whole story. In his rookie year, PK had some time with Markov, and a season with experienced and skilled guys like Hamrlik, Spacek, Wiz, Gill, Gorges...

Subtract Markov and Hamrlik and Wiz to start, and the later deletions of Spacek and Gill. Subban was thrust into a 1a role and played great hockey for 22 plus minutes a game. Also note the number of man games lost to injury. Let's not forget about the distracting and embarrassing management decisions and the coaching debacle.

And some people call his season a regression? If they actually watched games instead of scoring synopses, I can't imagine anyone not recognizing what a truly remarkable season he had, especially considering the environment in which he had it.

groovejuice is online now  
Old
01-22-2013, 12:10 AM
  #864
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Trading Subban for picks and prospects = tanking.

It's stupid tanking as well, because it no longer makes the team worse short-term, it's also likely to make us worse long-term.
Is this like the curse of the bambino?

Frozenice is offline  
Old
01-22-2013, 12:12 AM
  #865
NotProkofievian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
Sometimes statistics don't tell the whole story. In his rookie year, PK had some time with Markov, and a season with experienced and skilled guys like Hamrlik, Spacek, Wiz, Gill, Gorges...

Subtract Markov and Hamrlik and Wiz to start, and the later deletions of Spacek and Gill. Subban was thrust into a 1a role and played great hockey for 22 plus minutes a game. Also note the number of man games lost to injury. Let's not forget about the distracting and embarrassing management decisions and the coaching debacle.

And some people call his season a regression? If they actually watched games instead of scoring synopses, I can't imagine anyone not recognizing what a truly remarkable season he had, especially considering the environment in which he had it.
I'm with you bud. However, I do have a hunch that the statistics do corroborate your story.

NotProkofievian is offline  
Old
01-22-2013, 12:19 AM
  #866
Hugo Sham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 10,187
vCash: 500
Bergevin needs to get him signed ASAP. this team is so ****ing thin on talent, speed and offense, that unless everyone's on board we have 0 chance of getting a sniff of the playoffs - and it will go downhill fast. 7 of next 10 at home and we need to get winning

Hugo Sham is offline  
Old
01-22-2013, 12:24 AM
  #867
HankyZetts
Twi2ted
 
HankyZetts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
People attacked me vehemently when I predicted 11th-15th place in the summer. All I heard was "We're getting Markov !!!!!!".

I'd expect it would require more than 1 bad game for people to get on the pro-rebuild bandwagon.
I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet.

HankyZetts is offline  
Old
01-22-2013, 12:28 AM
  #868
Ghetto Sangria
The implication
 
Ghetto Sangria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,996
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
People attacked me vehemently when I predicted 11th-15th place in the summer. All I heard was "We're getting Markov !!!!!!".

I'd expect it would require more than 1 bad game for people to get on the pro-rebuild bandwagon.
There is a difference between rebuild and retooling. This team needs a few pieces... not an overhaul. Especially after this draft, the cupboard will be full

Ghetto Sangria is online now  
Old
01-22-2013, 12:48 AM
  #869
That Habs Fan
True Contenders.
 
That Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,926
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
I think PK deserves the same salary as Myers (5.5M). I only look to trade him if he insist on 6M.
so, in short, you'd trade Subban over $500,000?

That Habs Fan is online now  
Old
01-22-2013, 12:55 AM
  #870
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,625
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
No link or proof but if you look at past GDT's theres more *****ing about PK than ever. He was awful in his own end at times.
If you think what gets posted in GDTs is proof of anything other than that people who post in GDTs are prone to hysterics, I think you have another thing coming.

In any event, its always the guy carrying the puck that gets the blame. But the guy who has the puck tends to be the best player. The best players always have huge giveaway totals.

Talks to Goalposts is offline  
Old
01-22-2013, 12:55 AM
  #871
JustAHabFan
Registered User
 
JustAHabFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHamps View Post
so, in short, you'd trade Subban over $500,000?
If it's above 6M, we are in Doughty's territory. I do not think PK deserved this kind of money yet. If he wanted Doughty's type of contract, then sign for 2/3 years at around 3.5 to show the GM what he can do and then get the big contract if he show he is in the same class as Doughty.

JustAHabFan is offline  
Old
01-22-2013, 12:56 AM
  #872
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
There is a difference between rebuild and retooling. This team needs a few pieces... not an overhaul. Especially after this draft, the cupboard will be full
exactly, we already have Price, Subban (once re-signed), Eller, Pacc, White, as well as Galchenuyk and Gallagher who are starting this year. We still have Leblanc with the Dogs as well as Tinordi and Beaulieu. Collberg will eventually come to NA, Diaz and Emelin arent realy old either...and considering the team we have now, chances are we'll get a very good pick next summer.

No need to start a re-build now, that would be pointless as it takes a long enough time to do so that by the time the new faces arrive, the Price and Patches of this world will be old vets...

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
01-22-2013, 12:59 AM
  #873
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,750
vCash: 500
You trade Subban if you're offered a package that warrants trading Subban, for example if the Flyers offer Brayden and Luke Schenn, or Sean Couturier and a 1st.

You don't trade Subban because he wants to be paid more than Michael Del Zotto.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
01-22-2013, 01:03 AM
  #874
habtastic
Registered User
 
habtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai via MTL
Country: India
Posts: 9,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You trade Subban if you're offered a package that warrants trading Subban, for example if the Flyers offer Brayden and Luke Schenn, or Sean Couturier and a 1st.

You don't trade Subban because he wants to be paid more than Michael Del Zotto.
Yup. But don't trade Subban, cuz this can all be resolved and it will be. I will be pretty devastated if we trade Subban - as much as I am on Bergevin's side (ever so slightly) in terms of wanting a two year deal (although I cannot believe that he's only offering 3M!), we cannot let PK go.

Also, both Schenns or Couturier and a 1st...not a good package IMO, particularly both Schenns.

habtastic is offline  
Old
01-22-2013, 01:07 AM
  #875
JustAHabFan
Registered User
 
JustAHabFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
Yup. But don't trade Subban, cuz this can all be resolved and it will be. I will be pretty devastated if we trade Subban - as much as I am on Bergevin's side (ever so slightly) in terms of wanting a two year deal (although I cannot believe that he's only offering 3M!), we cannot let PK go.

Also, both Schenns or Couturier and a 1st...not a good package IMO, particularly both Schenns.
The Schenn on defense (Luke?) is very average from the game between the Flyers and the Pens.

JustAHabFan is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:16 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.