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Old
01-21-2013, 03:06 PM
  #476
Superbowlfishca
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WEHP - Keep up the Good Work

I agree with “dickeidunn” ,why all the slings and arrows at WEHP. This draft business at any level is not an exact science. How many times do the NHL scouts make mistakes? How many times do the actual WHL scouts make mistakes? In the 2010 WHL draft the first overall pick was Alex Forsberg. He is currently unranked by central scouting and plays in the SJHL for the Humbolt Broncos. He may go undrafted then turn into a bonafide NHLer.

If you could canvas all 22 WHL teams and get an accurate ranking list from each team every list would be different. Most likely the top round for each team would be similar other than the actual numeric positioning. But after the first round each list would be wildly different. My point is this draft business is a crap shoot at all levels.

I hold no affiliation to WEHP in any way, but I would venture to guess that if you talked to him he would say the list is put together for discussion purposes only. Sure he does what he can to put a list together with some relevance and credibility but in the big picture of things he has great interest in Bantam level hockey and basically has created a website that posts everything “All Bantam”. He should be commended for doing so. And a final point I don’t think he is making a million bucks doing so!

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01-21-2013, 03:11 PM
  #477
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Saskatoon Has Seen the Light?

Enlighten me on what’s going on in Saskatoon. From these posts I gather the board has put a proposal together to create 4 Bantam AA teams to compete in the North division of the SBAAHL.
And they can make this happen without putting it to a vote! Wow that’s great news!
But come on Saskatonians lets hear some feedback on this board!

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01-21-2013, 04:38 PM
  #478
TitanJofaDaoust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiedunnwrotethis View Post
I don't have any inside information, but what I've heard from reliable sources is that if the SMHA proposal is accepted, then it's a done deal. No vote.

The proposal itself would create four "provincial" teams that would compete in the North division. Four tier II teams would be created that would have direct affiliations with the provincial teams (much like the system NHL and AHL clubs have). The tier II teams would be in a league with various satellite communites in the Saskatoon area.

Apparently there is a Plan B if the SHA doesn't accept the proposal, but given that this is what the SHA has wanted all along, I don't see them rejecting it.
Yup - the vote is tonight.

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Old
01-21-2013, 09:13 PM
  #479
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Saskatoon SBAAHL Sage

I guess this looks like all the rage so I'll chime in.... Heh Saskatoon, stay or go but get on with it already.

The reality is the majority of parents are likely done with playing the same teams over, and over and over and over, and- well you get the point.

You either want to travel or you don't. This is the real issue which has been made clear to me over and over and over and over and - well you get the picture, by Saskatoon parents.

All three Regina teams in SBAAHL are having great success. Can anyone with a child on one of these teams please chime in and give us your perspective on which system you preferred, the old or the new.... and thanks in advance.

If Saskatoon wants to keep as is and open doors to Clavet, Warman, M'ville, Delisle, Dundurn, etc. Then the reverse should be true too, Saskatoon can let their kids play else where. The city is not entitled to have their cake and eat it too. Hopefully this vote will make this topic fizzle out already.

As for the kids that have left GSHL, I've got no problem with it as long as it is above board (and often it is not).

All issues would be non-issues if people would start remembering these are 14 year old kids. Move the draft up to the midget level where it belongs.

I've experienced old school city zone AA hockey, GSHL hockey, C4 and SBAAHL hockey. In my own humble opinion, the ones that I personally enjoy are the C4 and SBAAHL.

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01-22-2013, 10:51 AM
  #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanJofaDaoust View Post
Yup - the vote is tonight.
What was decided?

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01-22-2013, 11:25 AM
  #481
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What was decided?
Rejected...

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01-22-2013, 01:15 PM
  #482
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Rejected...
So status quo again?

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01-22-2013, 01:22 PM
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaskRinkRat View Post
So status quo again?
Is that a for sure? or hear say

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01-22-2013, 01:30 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by nah68 View Post
Is that a for sure? or hear say
I have no idea, it was a question for Titan.

I guess just because they rejected it (if they did) also doesn't necessarily mean some other scenario couldn't play out. Or does it? What the vote for the "new" proposal vs. the status quo?

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01-22-2013, 01:43 PM
  #485
TitanJofaDaoust
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Originally Posted by SaskRinkRat View Post
I have no idea, it was a question for Titan.

I guess just because they rejected it (if they did) also doesn't necessarily mean some other scenario couldn't play out. Or does it? What the vote for the "new" proposal vs. the status quo?
Fact - it was rejected.

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01-23-2013, 11:36 AM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanJofaDaoust View Post
Fact - it was rejected.
rejected by SHA, SMHA, or by the parents again...

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01-23-2013, 05:39 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by redtitan20 View Post
rejected by SHA, SMHA, or by the parents again...
My buddy up in Stoon just said it was rejected, not sure which group voted. Sounds like there still might be a chance for Stoon to join north somehow. Many parents do not want to have status quo for next year apparently.

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01-23-2013, 10:43 PM
  #488
PokeCheck101
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Okay, either SHA forces the issue then or let the majority of parents rule and stay status quo. Either way, doesn't matter. Like I said, the issue is the travel.

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01-24-2013, 08:42 AM
  #489
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with reduced number of teams in the city maybe people will realize how crucial it is to make sure that kids with fictional adresses are reported and sent to there respective centers. They are taking spots away from local city kids.

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01-24-2013, 10:46 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
Okay, either SHA forces the issue then or let the majority of parents rule and stay status quo. Either way, doesn't matter. Like I said, the issue is the travel.
apparently, GSHL wanted 4 teams to SBAAHL and 4 'minor league affiliate' ??? teams in Stoon to play in a league with surrounding centers. SMHA said ok for 4 teams in SBAAHL, but rejected the minor league proposal. When those details worked out, it will be official. All of this done without any formal vote or input by parents which is a complete reversal from a couple years ago.

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01-27-2013, 10:46 AM
  #491
PokeCheck101
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Originally Posted by redtitan20 View Post
apparently, GSHL wanted 4 teams to SBAAHL and 4 'minor league affiliate' ??? teams in Stoon to play in a league with surrounding centers. SMHA said ok for 4 teams in SBAAHL, but rejected the minor league proposal. When those details worked out, it will be official. All of this done without any formal vote or input by parents which is a complete reversal from a couple years ago.
"Minor League Affiliate" (??) .... Does this not really just mean tier II? If you don't make AA, you play tier II. This is a way for those wagging the dog to feel a little better if their child does not make AA. Rather than calling it dreaded tier II it's a minor league affiliate? GSHL perhaps needs to take a hard look within themselves. What's next then minor league affiliate jerseys, player contracts, trade deadlines?

Get it to 4 teams, the rest go back to their respective zones... AP your late cuts and be done with it. Focus on keeping solid coaches at tier II and for sure at AA, that's where the focus needs to be.

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Old
01-27-2013, 11:35 AM
  #492
dickiedunnwrotethis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
"Minor League Affiliate" (??) .... Does this not really just mean tier II? If you don't make AA, you play tier II. This is a way for those wagging the dog to feel a little better if their child does not make AA. Rather than calling it dreaded tier II it's a minor league affiliate? GSHL perhaps needs to take a hard look within themselves. What's next then minor league affiliate jerseys, player contracts, trade deadlines?

Get it to 4 teams, the rest go back to their respective zones... AP your late cuts and be done with it. Focus on keeping solid coaches at tier II and for sure at AA, that's where the focus needs to be.
From what I gathered, the emphasis was not so much calling teams "affiliates", but on actually being affiliated. In fact, I don't recall anyone saying they wouldn't be Tier II. If I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected.

There's a reason why NHL clubs have affiliates. It provides a structure to help ensure continuity of coaching for players. From what I heard, game/practice schedules would have been adjusted to avoid the conflicts that occur now. When injuries occur, AA coaches wouldn't have to scramble - like they do now - to find an AP. And the players they do call up would be familiar with the systems they run. Non-AA players would have more access to practicing with AA players and under AA level coaching. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the problem.

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01-28-2013, 04:13 PM
  #493
redtitan20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
"Minor League Affiliate" (??) .... Does this not really just mean tier II? If you don't make AA, you play tier II. This is a way for those wagging the dog to feel a little better if their child does not make AA. Rather than calling it dreaded tier II it's a minor league affiliate? GSHL perhaps needs to take a hard look within themselves. What's next then minor league affiliate jerseys, player contracts, trade deadlines?

Get it to 4 teams, the rest go back to their respective zones... AP your late cuts and be done with it. Focus on keeping solid coaches at tier II and for sure at AA, that's where the focus needs to be.
Pokecheck, i dont care what they want to call there 'tier ii' system, but you are so right in suggesting the GSHL needs to reconsider its role. Is the goal to win, or to continue developing quality players? Either way, why can't SMHA handle it alone? If the original vote a few years ago was an almost unanimous NO to travel and join SBAAHL, what has changed so dramatically now? And why do it without a vote this time? I say, force it on them and see how many parents actually want to travel. 1 or 2 seasons max should show if they have enough parents (and quality coaches) to compete with province. Its pretty shallow to suggest a few losses is enough to try change the system that has worked for a long time.

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01-28-2013, 11:32 PM
  #494
PokeCheck101
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The debate is endless on this. My own opinion is that there is only so many kids in a given geographic location who are AA players. I feel no greater emphasis should be placed on those players than what should be emphasized at the house league level. The intention of minor hockey associations should be to promote the game period. You achieve this by having a forward thinking executive, quality coaching whose main focus is skill development and the commitment to retain those coaches. So can this be achieved in the traditional tiered system? Absolutely. AA should be reserved for your truly elite players. Those players that possess the highest skill level at their age group. If that means, through careful examination, there are only four teams worth of AA players so be it. The rest go to tier II. You AP the kids you want and extend the invitation to attend practices. You don't flower things up and call it an affiliate team. There is NOTHING wrong with playing tier II. Parents just don't want to accept it. Surely I am not the only one with this opinion. For some reason this seems to be more of an issue for city folk... On a rural team the reality is you are fighting for what maybe 2, 3 forward spots or 1, 2 defence spots. Now that's tough. You don't make it and oh well, most rural kids seem to be alright with that. In the city it 's the end of the world. So how do they stop the sky from falling? By calling it a "minor league affiliate."

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01-29-2013, 02:00 AM
  #495
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Sad state
Ive listened to the pros and cons of whether smha join league or not, since Im not in the city my opinion is just that....a opinion. A red flag to me is the fact that a vote was taken before and with a overwhelming no on joining? And it seems to me that the majority of that no vote would have been with the 99 born parents? And why now has it changed? Lets see, I think the ability to not be able to compete at tournaments is one, and the fact that there is alot of clout in that age group has swayed alot of interest to change things for the betterment of there child instead of Saskatoons coveted developmental system. I wonder if the vote was put out to the 2000 parent level what the vote would come back at? Either way it looks like they will join with 4 teams, and the zone reps will have to answer the questions as to why, to those disgruntled parents. I am glad to see them join, not excatly with 4 teams because I believe that the amount of people that are within there draw area they should be able to at least ice 5. With 63k per team at 4 teams thats 20k more than most teams in the sbaahl, except for Regina. I would hope for there sake that they are in the top 7 of the league otherwise it doesn't say alot for the development and the retention of minor hockey players in the 2 biggest centers in Sask.

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01-29-2013, 08:44 AM
  #496
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Nah68...... You struck a chord here on something that also begs the question on development.... By reducing the number of AA teams in Saskatoon will this increase their competitiveness? I suggest the answer is yes. Obviously if you remove a few players and you have the most elite, you'll be a better team, goes without saying. Regina is an example of this. Now, by going to 3 teams in Regina, in my opinion, does not say much for the Hockey Regina development model for its kids. There should be no reason why Regina and Saskatoon should not be able to field 4-6 quality teams but apparently it took Regina to drop drastically to be competitive. It comes back to quality coaching from initiation through pee wee and people coaching without an agenda. If this was the case there would be a few more kids able to play at AA.

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01-29-2013, 12:11 PM
  #497
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It seems like there are a few assumptions being made here that could be questioned:

- The idea that the "minor league affiliate" proposal was some sort of attempt to change the perception of tier 2 and the first step on a slippery slope toward player contracts, etc. As Dickiedunn suggested, maybe it was just a proposed structure to allow better coordination between the AA team and the tier 2 teams to avoid scheduling / incentive conflicts when players need to be called up.

- The idea that population is directly related to the availability of AA calibre players. Wouldn't it be more useful to look at hockey enrollment rates? Just because more people live in Saskatoon and Regina doesn't necessarily mean that all of those people's kids are playing hockey at the same rate as people in, say, Melfort.

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01-29-2013, 12:27 PM
  #498
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all it boils down to is coaching at younger levels , if you have the coaching , you have the players . Saskatoon should be able to field 5 teams and be competitive. Regina should also have at least 4 teams ( not 3 ) based on numbers . it would be good if there was even number of teams in the north and south as planned.

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01-29-2013, 01:48 PM
  #499
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I'm also curious what could happen to other teams in the league if Saskatoon enters and is able to compete something like Regina. Will teams like Humboldt and Estevan (and even West Central, on a year when they don't important anyone) be able to stay competitive, or will the league have to contract even more?

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01-29-2013, 02:45 PM
  #500
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I'm also curious what could happen to other teams in the league if Saskatoon enters and is able to compete something like Regina. Will teams like Humboldt and Estevan (and even West Central, on a year when they don't important anyone) be able to stay competitive, or will the league have to contract even more?
adjusting the zones or drawing radius would help teams like a humboldt !

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