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Old
01-22-2013, 09:09 AM
  #51
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Hossa was traded to Pittsburgh for two roster players, a top prospect and a 1st. That's the best comparable I can think of if we wanted to get Perry at the deadline.
so your comparison is

Drew Stafford to Colby Armstrong
Girgensons to Erik Christenson
Pysyk to Esposito

????

Seriously...

It should be more like
Gerbe = Armstrong
McCormick = Christensen
Sundher = Esposito

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01-22-2013, 09:19 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
so your comparison is

Drew Stafford to Colby Armstrong
Girgensons to Erik Christenson
Pysyk to Esposito

????

Seriously...

It should be more like
Gerbe = Armstrong
McCormick = Christensen
Sundher = Esposito
I'd say JGL is better fit for Esposito--prospect who was highly touted but underachieved this year.

But either way, I'm not sold on Perry being the right target for this team right now. I'm not opposed to getting a rental, but Perry might not be the right fit for the roster the way it is currently constructed. He might be a better target in the offseason depending on what other moves the Sabres decide to make, where there's more flexibility in changing the roster around. But then again, who knows how injuries will look like at the deadline.

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Old
01-22-2013, 09:21 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
so your comparison is

Drew Stafford to Colby Armstrong
Girgensons to Erik Christenson
Pysyk to Esposito

????

Seriously...

It should be more like
Gerbe = Armstrong
McCormick = Christensen
Sundher = Esposito
Hindsight. These guys held more value before the trade. Esposito was a high draft pick. Christensen was coming off an 18 goal season, and Armstrong was a decent 3rd liner. It might be a little overpayment, but not close to what you are saying.

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01-22-2013, 09:31 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Trade deadline deal. Buffalo is in contention, Anaheim is out.

To Anaheim: Stafford, Girgensons, Pysyk, 1st

To Buffalo: Perry

Take a run at the cup and gives us the upper hand on re-signing.
Man, a 2-0 start has some people going from thinking we were a fringe playoff team to one player away from being a Cup contender. I don't mind taking risk, but I think that's a reckless deal from Buffalo's perspective. They're trading 6.5 years of team control on both Pysyk and Girgensons, two more years of team control over Stafford, and seven years of team control over that 1st rounder. You're effectively trading 22 years of asset control for a few months of Corey Perry--and it's really more like 25+ years of asset control when you consider Regier negotiates contracts so that players can't become UFA after their seventh season.

We're not a Cup contender even with Corey Perry on this club. That's the type of move that'd set the organization back years if or when Perry walked this summer. That type of move is completely premature, IMO.

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01-22-2013, 10:37 AM
  #55
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Wow, trading away solid prospects for a few months of Lemieux (Mario, that is) in his prime would still not make sense. That type of deal has to be when the team is a true, legit Cup contender. It isn't this year, so why get rid of players that at least have the potential of being a physical shut down C, a steady top-four two-way Dman, and a 1st? Don't forget that while Stafford is no where near being Perry, the margin in production is around a 20 goal difference (full season anyway). 20 goals is somehow worth all of that extra?!? Uh...no. No way.

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Old
01-22-2013, 11:21 AM
  #56
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I prefer to build our team from within, I'm confident in management and Rochester to properly groom these players. I don't want anything to do with Perry or Ryan, price is too high.

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01-22-2013, 11:22 AM
  #57
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As others have stated I just don't think this is the time to go all in for a player. Perry would be a fantastic addition to the Sabres, but I'm not gutting my prospect pool to get him, especially with no guarantee he stays here. So much of building a legit contender is having guys producing on ELC. Pysyk, and Girgensons will be doing that soon enough. No need to rush the re-build ala Brian Burke.

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01-22-2013, 11:35 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Hindsight. These guys held more value before the trade. Esposito was a high draft pick. Christensen was coming off an 18 goal season, and Armstrong was a decent 3rd liner. It might be a little overpayment, but not close to what you are saying.
i can't resist

Espo was a high draft pick? and his stock started falling almost immediately. His scoring dropped and He was left of WJC team. He was already being labeled a bust when he was traded.
Pysyk was a high draft pick, and his stock started going up almost immediately as he began dominating juniors, leading his team in the playoffs, and winning a WJC medal

Christensen was coming off an 18 goal season? Stafford has 3 20 goal seasons and is a proven top 6 NHLer.

Armstrong is a decent 3rd liner? Girgensons was just drafted 14th overall

Your proposal was god awful... recognize.

The closer equivalent of your proposal (from a Pitt perspective) would've been :
Ryan Malone
Alex Goligoski
Jordan Staal

That's how bad your proposal was.... that the massive overpayment i posted from Pitt, is MUCH closer to your Buffalo proposal, than the actual Hossa trade.

You proposed a asset decimating trade for a playoff rental... congrats! Job well done

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01-22-2013, 11:38 AM
  #59
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Who reaches UFA status next year? I just don't think guys like Perry are available that often. Whether or not the proposal is too much, whether or not Perry is the right guy, at some point this team is going to need to make that big move. Muckler always used to say it with Hasek, even Darcy has alluded to it on WGR, at some point they will have to sell youth for a game changer.

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01-22-2013, 11:41 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Who reaches UFA status next year? I just don't think guys like Perry are available that often. Whether or not the proposal is too much, whether or not Perry is the right guy, at some point this team is going to need to make that big move. Muckler always used to say it with Hasek, even Darcy has alluded to it on WGR, at some point they will have to sell youth for a game changer.
are you not aware that Perry reaches UFA status next year?

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01-22-2013, 11:42 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Who reaches UFA status next year? I just don't think guys like Perry are available that often. Whether or not the proposal is too much, whether or not Perry is the right guy, at some point this team is going to need to make that big move. Muckler always used to say it with Hasek, even Darcy has alluded to it on WGR, at some point they will have to sell youth for a game changer.
What I'm gathering from Ducks fans is that don't expect Getzlaf to reach UFA - but Perry is certainly a great possibility. He will fetch quite the contract though.

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01-22-2013, 11:44 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
What I'm gathering from Ducks fans is that don't expect Getzlaf to reach UFA - but Perry is certainly a great possibility. He will fetch quite the contract though.
I think with Selanne turning 73 next season they'll be more pressed to keep Perry.

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01-22-2013, 11:44 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i can't resist

Espo was a high draft pick? and his stock started falling almost immediately. His scoring dropped and He was left of WJC team. He was already being labeled a bust when he was traded.
Pysyk was a high draft pick, and his stock started going up almost immediately as he began dominating juniors, leading his team in the playoffs, and winning a WJC medal

Christensen was coming off an 18 goal season? Stafford has 3 20 goal seasons and is a proven top 6 NHLer.

Armstrong is a decent 3rd liner? Girgensons was just drafted 14th overall

Your proposal was god awful... recognize.

The closer equivalent of your proposal (from a Pitt perspective) would've been :
Ryan Malone
Alex Goligoski
Jordan Staal

That's how bad your proposal was.... that the massive overpayment i posted from Pitt, is MUCH closer to your Buffalo proposal, than the actual Hossa trade.

You proposed a asset decimating trade for a playoff rental... congrats! Job well done
It's somewhere in the middle, but ok, it was an overpayment. How about instead of ripping it, use it as a pallet to work off of. Just a thought.

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01-22-2013, 11:46 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
are you not aware that Perry reaches UFA status next year?
He reaches UFA status this year, no?

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01-22-2013, 11:47 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Old Navy Goat View Post
I think with Selanne turning 73 next season they'll be more pressed to keep Perry.
Ha! Well I think Perry will want to test UFA, and there is nothing the Ducks can do about it really. Unless they offer him 8/80M.

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01-22-2013, 11:49 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
It's somewhere in the middle, but ok, it was an overpayment. How about instead of ripping it, use it as a pallet to work off of. Just a thought.
you mean like when I pointed you to the Kovalchuk trade, and gave you a more accurate comparison including Gerbe and quality youngsters? and instead you insisted your offer was still close and called me a troll.

it's not "somewhere in the middle"... it's not "close". Your offer was terrible, and every single asset you proposed should be removed from ANY proposal for a rental.

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Old
01-22-2013, 11:50 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
He reaches UFA status this year, no?
yes. he's in the last year of his deal

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Old
01-22-2013, 11:53 AM
  #68
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It's ok to say... "yea, that was a dumb proposal"

i proposed trading Ryan Miller for Derrick Brassard once

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01-22-2013, 12:01 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Look at what Kovalchuk went for at the deadline as a pending UFA, and then recognize how ridiculous your overpayment is.
How about this, then:

Sulzer/Leopold (D-man who is nothing special but can hold down a top 6, maybe top 4 spot ---> Oduya)

Adam (young top 6 forward who may be good or may as well be a bust --> Bergfors)
Kea (promising bottom 6 prospect, who is a couple of years away from the big club --> Cormier)
1st

for

Perry (soon-to-be-UFA elite winger --> Kovalchuk)

Haven't given too much thought to Anaheim's needs, so don't know whether they'd take it, but if they're out of contention and the probability of Perry walking for nothing arises, this might as well get their attention.

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01-22-2013, 12:08 PM
  #70
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If we had traded Adam in the middle of last season, it would be similar to Bergfors. He started his rookie season on fire and was traded when his value was at its highest. Adam doesn't have that value anymore either. Cormier captained Team Canada and was drafted higher than Kea. Sulzer and Leo are both UFA. No chance in hell they take that deal. This is what I mean by hindsight. These weren't throw away pieces when they were dealt.

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01-22-2013, 12:14 PM
  #71
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Weber
Foligno
Catenacci
1st

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01-22-2013, 12:29 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
Weber
Foligno
Catenacci
1st
might be closer to the Kovalchuk deal, but I wouldn't do it because of Foligno, at least not without any clear indication that Perry can be resigned. Maybe with McCabe instead of Foligno.

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:38 PM
  #73
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Sekera
Adam
JGL
1st

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:42 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
If we had traded Adam in the middle of last season, it would be similar to Bergfors. He started his rookie season on fire and was traded when his value was at its highest. Adam doesn't have that value anymore either. Cormier captained Team Canada and was drafted higher than Kea. Sulzer and Leo are both UFA. No chance in hell they take that deal. This is what I mean by hindsight. These weren't throw away pieces when they were dealt.
Bergfors' value was worth more than it is now, but he wasn't dealt at "the height of his value." He had played his way off the Devils' top line, couldn't hold down a checking role, and New Jersey decided to upgrade his roster spot rather than take the step back in development in stride and let him work his way out of it. He wasn't traded in the middle of breaking into the league and producing.

Cormier was always a prospect with limited offensive upside and control issues, didn't break out offensively during his last season, then got suspended for the same dirty crap he had been doing his whole career.

Both of those guys were longer-term projects. Both had Lou's pen looming over the wall in front of them. No Buffalo prospect with a high ceiling and generally upward progression is going to be put on the table for Perry.

McNabb/Armia*/Pysyk
Leopold/Gerbe/Leino
JGL/Catenacci/Sundher/Tropp/Gerbe
1st

*entirely dependent on how the organization views his development. Very much a take-it-or-leave-it type of prospect.

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Old
01-22-2013, 01:13 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
It's ok to say... "yea, that was a dumb proposal"

i proposed trading Ryan Miller for Derrick Brassard once
And not even your worst Brassard offer, either. That'd be:

Brassard

for

Three 1st rounders




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