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01-22-2013, 11:40 AM
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Don't forget a while back WADE BELAK ..... Had a long career was picked in top 12 . While defense and toughness is always a premium I'm in the camp of looking for these type if defenseman via trade or free agency and using high draft picks for high potential offensive players . The simple reason being it takes much longer for the shutdown type to develop and for your picks to hear fruit . The NYR have had bad track record with drafting " big guys " .
Brendl, Jessiman , Grachev all come to mind as guys whose size was dominant at lower levels but speed didnt cut it in NHL
Please point out where a shut-down, physical, mean defensive d-man becomes available in their prime or anywhere close. Komisarek? Yeah, he sucked. Orpik? Re-signed. Gleason? Re-signed.

I believe Chara was the last one and he was let go because of a stupid decision my the Sens management.

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01-22-2013, 11:44 AM
  #702
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On a side-note, I think I have my favorite teams in the West. STL is a ton of fun to watch and I like this new CLB team. Atkinson, Johansen, Dubinsky, Umberger, Prospal, Foligno, Calvert, Anisimov, Dorsett, Brassard. IMO, they are pretty stacked up front. JJ, Wiz, Tyutin, Nikitin on the back-end and with The Bob in net.

I like they way they are built actually. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they make the playoffs this season.

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01-22-2013, 11:48 AM
  #703
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
On a side-note, I think I have my favorite teams in the West. STL is a ton of fun to watch and I like this new CLB team. Atkinson, Johansen, Dubinsky, Umberger, Prospal, Foligno, Calvert, Anisimov, Dorsett, Brassard. IMO, they are pretty stacked up front. JJ, Wiz, Tyutin, Nikitin on the back-end and with The Bob in net.

I like they way they are built actually. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they make the playoffs this season.
Don't think they will this year with so much division play. The Central is tough.

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01-22-2013, 11:54 AM
  #704
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We can argue all the day about justifying the pick; it was a mistake to pass on Tarasenko, but not a mistake that needs to be vilified. It was a judgement call and management took the player they liked. I am excited for McI to be a Ranger, though I think there is virtually no shot he becomes a top pairing NHLer. There's no need to call for management's head over it; mistakes happen and this will go down as one. Big deal. Same thing happened to a lot of teams on Giroux, Datsyuk, Lundqvist, etc. That said, Tarasenko would be better for this team than McI. Not sure why we're debating that. We want to win now, our offense looks all kinds of out of sorts and Tarasenko would be a sure thing in the top six adding explosive offensive talent right now. McI's not even in the NHL yet, so he doesn't help us win now. I'm not regretful. I'm not sour about it. It's fine; McI will be a fan favorite when he gets here. I understand most of you are just annoyed about the people throwing fits (again) about taking McIlrath, but there's no point in trying to say Tarasenko wouldn't have been a better pick. It's done. It's the past. Team's pass on guys who end up being better than the one they picked every single year, multiple times.
Sorry, but you can't definitively say anything about what pick was wrong/better until at least 5-10 years down the road where we have careers to compare. D take longer to develop than forwards do and McI was injured for quite a time period.

It's also difficult to draw a comparison between a Buekeboom-type and a Bure-type - each brings different things to a team and those needs have varying weight depending on the players that are complimenting each. Some teams would need the Buekeboom more than the Bure and that's really where the value in the pick lies.

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01-22-2013, 11:54 AM
  #705
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
On a side-note, I think I have my favorite teams in the West. STL is a ton of fun to watch and I like this new CLB team. Atkinson, Johansen, Dubinsky, Umberger, Prospal, Foligno, Calvert, Anisimov, Dorsett, Brassard. IMO, they are pretty stacked up front. JJ, Wiz, Tyutin, Nikitin on the back-end and with The Bob in net.

I like they way they are built actually. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they make the playoffs this season.
Completely agree. Probably going to get Center Ice just to follow the Jackets.

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01-22-2013, 12:11 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Please point out where a shut-down, physical, mean defensive d-man becomes available in their prime or anywhere close. Komisarek? Yeah, he sucked. Orpik? Re-signed. Gleason? Re-signed.

I believe Chara was the last one and he was let go because of a stupid decision my the Sens management.
Pronger moved how many times ?
How about Chelios ?
Stevens ?
Adrian Aucoin ?
Kevin Lowe ?

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:15 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Pronger moved how many times ?
How about Chelios ?
Stevens ?
Adrian Aucoin ?
Kevin Lowe ?
Old NHL.

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:18 PM
  #708
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i wasnt looking to reopen this old wound. it wasnt my intention.

the start that the tank has had is not a surprise to me. at all. this is the player i expected st louis would get. his russian junior career, his khl numbers, his world junior tourny play and now his start in the nhl. all expected.

this is a very special player. hes built like a tank- literally. his game is very north american. he dangles. he goes to the net. his shot is high end and his wheels are dangerous. in addition, he shows a true love for the game and acts different than many "stoic" russians. hes the whole package.

and he said. "im coming over to play in the nhl". he kept his word.

see to me, its not so much tarasenko vs mcilrath. if it were, it would be even worse. its really about who could be helping us more right now. today.

say what you will about mcilrath and his development curve- and i do hope he can be the player gordie clarke says he can be, but right now with our 3 scorer studs at, over or nearing 30 and hank in his prime, this russian sniper would look pretty good.

right now. today.

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:22 PM
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
We can argue all the day about justifying the pick; it was a mistake to pass on Tarasenko, but not a mistake that needs to be vilified. It was a judgement call and management took the player they liked. I am excited for McI to be a Ranger, though I think there is virtually no shot he becomes a top pairing NHLer. There's no need to call for management's head over it; mistakes happen and this will go down as one. Big deal. Same thing happened to a lot of teams on Giroux, Datsyuk, Lundqvist, etc. That said, Tarasenko would be better for this team than McI. Not sure why we're debating that. We want to win now, our offense looks all kinds of out of sorts and Tarasenko would be a sure thing in the top six adding explosive offensive talent right now. McI's not even in the NHL yet, so he doesn't help us win now. I'm not regretful. I'm not sour about it. It's fine; McI will be a fan favorite when he gets here. I understand most of you are just annoyed about the people throwing fits (again) about taking McIlrath, but there's no point in trying to say Tarasenko wouldn't have been a better pick. It's done. It's the past. Team's pass on guys who end up being better than the one they picked every single year, multiple times.
Why do people keep saying that? None of those guys really fell. They were low round picks that became players much better than anyone expecting. Girioux is the exception, but still he went where everyone thought he would. Tarasenko was a guy that fell and everyone knew he had world class talent.

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01-22-2013, 12:28 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Sorry, but you can't definitively say anything about what pick was wrong/better until at least 5-10 years down the road where we have careers to compare. D take longer to develop than forwards do and McI was injured for quite a time period.

It's also difficult to draw a comparison between a Buekeboom-type and a Bure-type - each brings different things to a team and those needs have varying weight depending on the players that are complimenting each. Some teams would need the Buekeboom more than the Bure and that's really where the value in the pick lies.
This team is deep ion defense and not in forwards. Hence we're not one of those teams.

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:58 PM
  #711
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Moreover I simply don't think any GM in the NHL, perhaps ever, would take a Beuk over a Bure. They'd say give me the Bure; I'll find my Beuk elsewhere. You're kidding yourself if you don't think that's true.

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01-22-2013, 01:10 PM
  #712
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Maybe I like seeing the world burn, but I want Suter to absolutely demolish the Predators tonight. The amount of ******** fans got of the Wild after signing two of the most highly touted FAs in some time reminds me of the Rangers. I'll be cheering hard for them tonight and for the rest of the season.
I was more looking forward to a Debbies-Wild game. But we'll have to wait.

The so-called "DevilPred" alliance was hysterical though.

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01-22-2013, 01:11 PM
  #713
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Moreover I simply don't think any GM in the NHL, perhaps ever, would take a Beuk over a Bure. They'd say give me the Bure; I'll find my Beuk elsewhere. You're kidding yourself if you don't think that's true.
I think you're placing more value on Tarasenko after 2 games than he deserves. If he's all that and a bag of chips then why did 15 teams draft other players before they drafted him? It's not like Sather was the only guy that chose someone else.

And, I said "bure" type (meaning dynamic offensively) and buekeboom "type" (meaning huge defensive defenseman that's also an intimidating presence). Maybe Bure was the wrong guy to use since he's a once in a generation type player which I don't think Tarasenko is.

Take a look at Chara's first 6 or 7 years in the NHL and what he's become since then. The jury is out until Mcillrath is 30 and the Rangers were obviously not drafting someone for the near term and I believe they've said as much.

They got their elite sniping winger via trade and kept their draft pick.

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01-22-2013, 01:14 PM
  #714
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If Tarasenko was known to become a "superstar", then why did the team who drafted him select Jaden Schwartz before him in his draft year? Is Schwartz even better!?!

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01-22-2013, 01:23 PM
  #715
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Because Tarasenko's coach in the KHL was his dad and everyone was worried he'd want to stay home and play for dad after his contract was up. He was known to be perhaps the greatest talent in the draft but it was uncertain if he would ever come over even though he stated he wanted to play in NA after his contract to his dad's team was up.

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01-22-2013, 01:23 PM
  #716
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Tarasenko is also playing on a west Cup Favorite, IMHO, that just came off a 109 point season. The Blues are stacked. And, good for them, that team had been in the doldrums for years.

I'm not even arguing that Tarasenko probably will have the better NHL career - he probably will. But, we really can't make that call now or even a couple of years from now.

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01-22-2013, 01:29 PM
  #717
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Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN

#Isles Nino Niederreiter's camp is seeking a trade from the Islanders, a source tells ESPNNY. Unhappy with current situation

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01-22-2013, 01:29 PM
  #718
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https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...02013202989057

Quote:
#Isles Nino Niederreiter's camp is seeking a trade from the Islanders, a source tells ESPNNY. Unhappy with current situation
Ah! Beaten to the punch.

Islanders have really ruined some prospects recently. Rushing to the NHL. Luckily, for the Isles sake, they were smart enough to send Strome back to Juniors.

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Old
01-22-2013, 01:30 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Because Tarasenko's coach in the KHL was his dad and everyone was worried he'd want to stay home and play for dad after his contract was up. He was known to be perhaps the greatest talent in the draft but it was uncertain if he would ever come over even though he stated he wanted to play in NA after his contract to his dad's team was up.
Exactly. So people are using 100% hindsight to prove a point. That's like saying I would win the lottery from today if I could put the numbers in tomorrow

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01-22-2013, 01:30 PM
  #720
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Lol nothing can go right for the Islanders.

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01-22-2013, 01:32 PM
  #721
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If Tarasenko was known to become a "superstar", then why did the team who drafted him select Jaden Schwartz before him in his draft year? Is Schwartz even better!?!
How high was their first pick?

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01-22-2013, 01:35 PM
  #722
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Not surprising. The team has totally stunted his development.

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01-22-2013, 01:36 PM
  #723
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How high was their first pick?
14. Tarasenko was 16.

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01-22-2013, 01:36 PM
  #724
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https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...02013202989057



Ah! Beaten to the punch.

Islanders have really ruined some prospects recently. Rushing to the NHL. Luckily, for the Isles sake, they were smart enough to send Strome back to Juniors.
They really mishandled Niederreiter, guess I can't be too surprised

Wouldn't mind him on the Rangers! Though obviously they wouldn't trade him in division even if they do trade him

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Old
01-22-2013, 01:38 PM
  #725
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
14. Tarasenko was 16.
Well maybe they thought that the team at 15 wanted Schwartz but not Tarasenko and this was their way of getting both?

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