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P.K. Subban Thread - 5.0 - The "Doughty Money Vs. Lowball Bridge" Edition

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:19 PM
  #26
Dada
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Originally Posted by Shaby23 View Post
Bergevin is starting to really pissing me off.
Would you care to elaborate?

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01-22-2013, 02:20 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
If nothing more substantial than that tweet from someone who seems a lot like a nobody comes out, we can't keep the thread title as it is. It's possible that it is just straight up false.
All right then.. Hmmm.. how about:

"Doughty Money Vs. Lowball Bridge"?

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01-22-2013, 02:20 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Bergevin has been really tight lipped about everything so far. I doubt we would be hearing any leaks.

If it doesn't come from the only real insider in hockey (MacKenzie), it probably isn't true.
That's the thing. If that tweet from 'dustin leed' is all we have to go off, that's not enough.

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01-22-2013, 02:21 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
All right then.. Hmmm.. how about:

"Doughty Money Vs. Lowball Bridge"?
Hmm.. A thread title that suggest only a black or white outcome, and no grey area in between... perfect. It doubles as a social commentary on habs fans in general.

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01-22-2013, 02:22 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Good point. I'll change the link. Check out the tweet I reported lower


edit: sorry for reporting the wrong link... But the rumor is true. Well, I mean, it is true that the current word is 2.75M$. Not that the rumor has been confirmed
McKenzie would tweet that himself, and I'm doubtful of anything second hand. A rumor can only be said to be true when confirmed.

Edit: The current title "Doughty Money Vs. Lowball Bridge" is perfect!

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:22 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Hmm.. A thread title that suggest only a black or white outcome, and no grey area in between... perfect. It doubles as a social commentary on habs fans in general.
Too much quotation marks

Unless you wanted to be ""ironic""

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:25 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Just wanted to get this on the front page of this thread:

Mandatory reading before using any of the empty rhetoric we keep hearing about Subban:

Subban vs His Peers

The holdout- In defense of PK Subban
They both come from the same site, so they'll be dismissed out of hand without actually reading what was presented in the articles.

People are stuck in their ways. We're not going to convince anybody who has their mind made up no matter how many numbers/facts we present.

I don't mean to sound negative or to jump the gun, but if this is MB's idea of cap structure and roster management (2years at 2.75m) and he's unwilling to budge, he needs to GTFO now.

You do not handcuff your team by giving your best players fair contracts, you handcuff your team by signing players who aren't particularly good at playing hockey to above market value, like prust, gomez, gionta, cammy, spacek ect. Now I'd have np with a gionta type deal if other pieces were in place but when we made all these garbage signings/trades in one off-season it was plain to see that Bob got desperate and made many stupid moves.

You can not and should not ever build the core of your team through UFA's. You overpay every time, if you wanna overpay a supplemental player to bolster your roster, fine, I have np with it.

You do not hold your best player ransom so you can squeeze in overpaid 4th liners like Prust, whether he filled a need or not, he doesn't fill anywhere close to the needs PK fills.

Posters suggesting it's ok because one is a UFA and the other is a RFA have no idea. It's poor asset management on every level.

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01-22-2013, 02:26 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Shaby23 View Post
Bergevin is starting to really pissing me off.
Why? He is doing the right thing....Subban has earned nothing....sign another two year deal and maybe after that if you have proven yourself and knocked off all the silly crap, u will get the big money....he can sit home all year and sulk.....Habs are 100% in the right here.

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:26 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
To me this hold-out is showing us how PK is not a team first type of player. When thinking about it Price could have easily embarased the management by holding out when Halak was traded but he did not and accepted to take a 2 years deal and proved himself before signing his longterm deal. And before anybody claim how Price was not proved yet he was still the best young netminder in the game with the most value around the NHL.
I used to disagree with this and thought most of that was due to his personality. And I still think a lot of it is based on nothing really substantial. However, the more this drags on and the more you hear about this type of thing the more you wonder. Where there is smoke there might be fire. Question is when it comes to these negotiations that I wonder is how much is PK the one to blame if indeed he's asking for too much or how much is Don Meehan.

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01-22-2013, 02:28 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Westcoasthabsfan View Post
Why? He is doing the right thing....Subban has earned nothing....sign another two year deal and maybe after that if you have proven yourself and knocked off all the silly crap, u will get the big money....he can sit home all year and sulk.....Habs are 100% in the right here.
You people really annoy me, no offense.

Wouldn't know a very good hockey player if you fell over one.

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01-22-2013, 02:29 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
I used to disagree with this and thought most of that was due to his personality. And I still think a lot of it is based on nothing really substantial. However, the more this drags on and the more you hear about this type of thing the more you wonder. Where there is smoke there might be fire. Question is when it comes to these negotiations that I wonder is how much is PK the one to blame if indeed he's asking for too much or how much is Don Meehan.
You conveniently left out MB as part of your concerns.

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:33 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
You conveniently left out MB as part of your concerns.
That's because I agree with his contractual structure and I think PK should follow the same steps as Patches and Price. Personally I think MB's been around Chicago long enough to know how to properly build a winner and I think he's doing what is best to build a contender in the long-term.

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:33 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
If we had hired Mcguire PK would already be signed.
The same Pierre McGuire who went on the air and proposed the 3rd overall pick+Subban for the 1st overall pick ''and something else''?

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01-22-2013, 02:36 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
The same Pierre McGuire who went on the air and proposed the 3rd overall pick+Subban for the 1st overall pick ''and something else''?
Well, if the "something else" was future considerations, which ended up being our own 3rd overall pick + Subban, I'd have done it

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:37 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Because he wants a fair value for his contract?

How does that even compute?
What is "fair" value exactly?
Some people are claiming we should pay him over 5M$ ? For christ sake this is becoming a sad story from our fanbase to make that much pressure on a new GM that want to create his mark on that team.

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:39 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
The same Pierre McGuire who went on the air and proposed the 3rd overall pick+Subban for the 1st overall pick ''and something else''?
I'm pretty sure it was PK for the 1st overall, not adding our 3rd. We would have picked at #1 and #3

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01-22-2013, 02:39 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
What is "fair" value exactly?
Some people are claiming we should pay him over 5M$ ? For christ sake this is becoming a sad story from our fanbase to make that much pressure on a new GM that want to create his mark on that team.


Fair value would be somewhere between what the GM is offering, and what PK is asking. The stats prove that he's a #1 d-man on our team, so he should probably get paid like one.

You said that he is not a team player. I asked why, because this doesn't have anything to do with the team per say. It's his contract, not anyone else's.

He's more than proven himself to be a team player on the ice. If you are inferring that he isn't a team player because he hasn't signed whatever contract was offered, that's a logical fallacy.

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01-22-2013, 02:41 PM
  #43
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Apparently Meehan is leveraging PK's burgeoning career as a Sportsnet analyst for an extra 500K a year on his deal.

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:48 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
That's because I agree with his contractual structure and I think PK should follow the same steps as Patches and Price. Personally I think MB's been around Chicago long enough to know how to properly build a winner and I think he's doing what is best to build a contender in the long-term.
Patrick Kane off elc = 5yrs @ 6.3aav
Jonathan Toews off elc = 5yrs @ 6.3 aav


But Toews is a thoroughbred, he's the captain and he has a great attitude.

Kane only punched that one cabby. His off ice issues are nowhere near those of PK's.


You build a contender in the long term by locking up your young players.

You don't build a winner by low-balling (if that's the case) your talent at the first opportunity.

i don't think PK should be asking for 6.3 aav over 5 years however anything between the 4 and 5.5 range is reasonable.

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:50 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
The same Pierre McGuire who went on the air and proposed the 3rd overall pick+Subban for the 1st overall pick ''and something else''?
Not accurate.
McGuire (and I can't believe I'm defending him...) said that if he was on the other end, he'd CALL the Habs to see if they'd be interested to do that deal.

Big difference.

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:54 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
I used to disagree with this and thought most of that was due to his personality. And I still think a lot of it is based on nothing really substantial. However, the more this drags on and the more you hear about this type of thing the more you wonder. Where there is smoke there might be fire. Question is when it comes to these negotiations that I wonder is how much is PK the one to blame if indeed he's asking for too much or how much is Don Meehan.
In the end Pk is still the one that control his destiny no matter what Meehan think!

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:57 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Fair value would be somewhere between what the GM is offering, and what PK is asking. The stats prove that he's a #1 d-man on our team, so he should probably get paid like one.

You said that he is not a team player. I asked why, because this doesn't have anything to do with the team per say. It's his contract, not anyone else's.

He's more than proven himself to be a team player on the ice. If you are inferring that he isn't a team player because he hasn't signed whatever contract was offered, that's a logical fallacy.
How is he different than a guy like Kulikov ?

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01-22-2013, 02:58 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by malton View Post
Patrick Kane off elc = 5yrs @ 6.3aav
Jonathan Toews off elc = 5yrs @ 6.3 aav


But Toews is a thoroughbred, he's the captain and he has a great attitude.

Kane only punched that one cabby. His off ice issues are nowhere near those of PK's.


You build a contender in the long term by locking up your young players.

You don't build a winner by low-balling (if that's the case) your talent at the first opportunity.

i don't think PK should be asking for 6.3 aav over 5 years however anything between the 4 and 5.5 range is reasonable.
Assault versus... what, exactly?

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:59 PM
  #49
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Thanks for the false alarm about the fake Mckenzie tweet...

I think Mr. Leed (whoever the ******* he is) received more than enough attention because he used Mr. Bobby Mac's name...

That's like if I tweet "Obama states that he aims to legalize marijuana across all States by 2014" and eveyone goes nuts for about 2 hours before realizing I'm a ******* face and deserve to get my nuts blown off!

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:00 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
How is he different than a guy like Kulikov ?
Statistically speaking they aren't even close. They're roughly the same age, that's about it.

Read the article I posted on the front page, it will explain it quite thoroughly. It does a great job at crushing empty rhetoric IMO.

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