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Old
01-21-2013, 02:26 PM
  #26
THW
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
Can we stop throwing this around?

1. It's terrible terrible logic.

2. It's just stupid.
Please explain your position. As I see it, the team is languishing in a position of decline, as they have made no significant upgrades nor have they replaced impact, cornerstone players as they leave. We all know the Illitchs are fine with spending money/trading, so why is management content with decline while allowing our prospects to languish in development hell? Its amazing to me that fans/management believe its better for the prospects to play against lower level talent and "dominate" than to move up to get accustomed to the faster, stronger NHL game. By the time prospects are ready, their spirit and will is broken, because they know they are ready to move up and contribute. I am seeing that with Mursak, he said he had felt ready for a couple of years now and now seeing how the team is so hesitant to bring up prospects and keep bringing in vets, he doesnt believe he has a future with the Wings and because of limited time playing against bigger/stronger/faster NHL talent, he is developmentally retarded. They need to trade for a stay at home D, waive Cleary and maybe Bert, and figure a way to let some of the prospects earn a spot on the roster instead of immediately giving the spot to a vet who doesnt deserve it.

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01-21-2013, 02:30 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
agree or disagree with Holland doing it, I think that's most likely Holland's line of thinking. And I think it's behind the times a bit, too.

I'm wondering where Nill is falling in this argument. We know where Babcock stands from the occasional comment he drops. We know where Holland stands because of how the team is shaped. Nill flies under the radar, though. If Nill vocally sides with Babcock, I'm not sure what drives Holland to disagree with both of them. If he throws his support the other way, we have to wonder if anything would change under either of them. Or Nill keeps quiet, not wanting to rock the boat - which might be the option I'm the least fan of.
Do we have any evidence of what Nill thinks?

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01-21-2013, 03:32 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Do we have any evidence of what Nill thinks?
As far as I know, we don't, which is part of why I'm curious about it. I know he'll give the occasional quote about the prospects, but I don't recall seeing much of anything about how the Wings run things. With how the Wings make it out as if there's a brain trust with Holland, Nill, Devellano, Babcock, etc., and having a good idea of where Babcock and Holland fall, I have to wonder where the other voices come in.

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01-21-2013, 03:38 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
As far as I know, we don't, which is part of why I'm curious about it. I know he'll give the occasional quote about the prospects, but I don't recall seeing much of anything about how the Wings run things. With how the Wings make it out as if there's a brain trust with Holland, Nill, Devellano, Babcock, etc., and having a good idea of where Babcock and Holland fall, I have to wonder where the other voices come in.
My guess would be that it's a conscious decision by the front office to have Holland as the main/lone voice representing management. I doubt they'd want any hint of disagreement from someone like Nill hitting the media and fans, so I'd think all of their internal disagreements get ironed out behind closed doors, and then KH speaks for the braintrust. Not saying that Nill even disagrees with KH (hell, he could more conservative for all I know), but it makes sense to have a unified message coming from management.

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01-21-2013, 03:43 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Do we have any evidence of what Nill thinks?
I'm actually laughing now, thinking how awesome it would have been for Nill to drop a quote to the media in 2009 along the lines of "You know what? I wanted to keep Hossa and let Franzen walk, but you know how Kenny gets with his homegrown Swedes, right? I mean, look at this Ericsson kid- big kid, plays soft as a freaking twinkie..." and so on.

Maybe THAT'S why Holland is the only front office voice for the Wings.

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01-21-2013, 04:23 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Do we have any evidence of what Nill thinks?
He is the GM of the Griffins and I'm quite sure he wants to keep those kids there and keep his team winning.

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01-21-2013, 05:39 PM
  #32
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We need to trade/get rid of Dan Cleary ASAP.

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Old
01-21-2013, 05:59 PM
  #33
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First of all, we have to suck for a long period (half a season), before we start making bigger moves.

Yeah, we lost yesterday and looked bad against extremely strong Stanley Cup candidate, but our game is missing stability. We have to play to learn those new routines almost every guy has in this years team. That short training camo really hurt us, it's easier to start with run-and-gun style for those kind of teams. Our puck posession needs timing and chemistry more than ever, because there's so many guys in new duties.

We have to play and adjust, then we see if we can win and win enough. Let them play 20 games and then see where we are. If we are out of the playoff race, I don't think it's a big deal for Holland after that to bring some kids up.

But bringing those kids up right does not solve this team problem. It just hurts building those chemistries. We have to solve these problems with current guys.

Let's see what happens. Be patient. If the sky is gonna fall, then it falls. But we have to give some time for the team. There's too much talent in this team to be that bad.
Agree with this and on top of that it basically allows the Griffins to seal a playoff spot assuming all goes right. If the Wings are bad at that point they can trade some guys and call them up for the last 20 games. Have them on the clear day roster in Grand Rapids and bang even Smith goes back and that team probably cake walks to the at least the Western conference finals allowing them two additional months of growth.

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01-21-2013, 06:07 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
As far as I know, we don't, which is part of why I'm curious about it. I know he'll give the occasional quote about the prospects, but I don't recall seeing much of anything about how the Wings run things. With how the Wings make it out as if there's a brain trust with Holland, Nill, Devellano, Babcock, etc., and having a good idea of where Babcock and Holland fall, I have to wonder where the other voices come in.
Nill is a pretty big fan of the long-term development at least in his public comments. It is also something he advised close family friend DeKeyser of in staying in college this year. I think you will find Nill is much closer to Holland than people think. Chances are so is Stevie Y as he left some fairly big players tearing apart the AHL last year to win a championship and develop that way rather than rescue Tampa.

Realistically we are looking at Nill or Yzerman. By the way I don't even know that Stevie would leave just yet, he is pretty loyal for those that think that way, the same reason we loved him on the Wings, would he ditch Tampa that quick? My guess is Nill would get first crack and Holland would move into the President role so not gone really at all, he would still have a voice in the room. The logic would continue for a little bit. Holland was sniffing around quite a bit this off-season on guys, but nobody knew what this team would look like, despite the poor first game we still don't truly know. He will get his chance to fix this for a couple years if he wants to, really the Holland stepping aside would tell me just how hopeless the situation is, that would be a very bad sign.

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01-21-2013, 07:49 PM
  #35
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Trade Abdelkader now... anything more than a box of rocks is a steal

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Old
01-21-2013, 08:06 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by YostisHome View Post
Trade Abdelkader now... anything more than a box of rocks is a steal
Package him with Cleary.

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Old
01-21-2013, 08:19 PM
  #37
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I really liked Cleary before the injuries started coming...I kept thinking he was gonna be his old self but I've been waiting for years now and it is clear he will ever be what he was.

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Old
01-21-2013, 08:23 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YostisHome View Post
Trade Abdelkader now... anything more than a box of rocks is a steal
Wings should just leave him behind in Cbus, along with Cleary and Quincey.

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Old
01-21-2013, 10:02 PM
  #39
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(another) 1st round pick to Bolts

If SFY agrees to take Kyle Quincey back...

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01-21-2013, 10:10 PM
  #40
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Quincey + Cleary + Samuelsson for Brian Lee.

C'mon Yzerman you owe us after you robbed us last time.

Just think we could have...

Franzen-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Filppula-Zetterberg-Brunner
Bertuzzi-Helm-Tatar
Miller-Abdelkader-Tootoo

Kronwall-Lee
Smith-Ericsson
Lashoff/CC-White

Howard
Gus

Damn, that is an awesome team.

That may be overpayment for Brian Lee, I realize that considering he was traded straight up for Matt Gilroy, but those are 3 players I'd let walk for free. Having 3 stay at home dmen (Ericsson, Lee, Lashoff) would be awesome.

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Old
01-21-2013, 11:07 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Say you never signed Sammy and Bert.
You're still rolling with

Cleary Datsyuk Nyquist
Fanzen Zetterberg Brunner
Tatar Flip Tootoo
Miller Helm Mursak
Emmerton/Eaves
No, because Hudler would actually have been signed. Which makes the lines this:

Hudler/Datsyuk/Cleary
Nyquist/Zetterberg/Brunner
Franzen/Filppula/Tatar
Abdelkader/Helm/Tootoo

Think Calgary would go for Sammy+Bertuzzi for Hudler? Maybe add in whichever of Emmerton/Mursak/Eaves/Miller won't be sticking around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Wings should just leave him behind in Cbus, along with Cleary and Quincey.
I thought Cleary did well for his role tonight, actually. Looked better than Eaves, Abby, or most of the rest of the team.

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01-22-2013, 01:35 AM
  #42
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i said last season that holland was probably trying to prove that waiving quincey was not a bad move.

but just as likely is that holland is very loyal to yzerman and wanted to help him in his new job.

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01-22-2013, 02:54 AM
  #43
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Eva, Hudler's staying or going had nothing to do with Bertuzzi and Sammy and everything to do with whether Holland wanted him back... and price may or may not have been part of that equation.

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01-22-2013, 06:29 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Eva, Hudler's staying or going had nothing to do with Bertuzzi and Sammy and everything to do with whether Holland wanted him back... and price may or may not have been part of that equation.
Yep.

Brunner is basicly the player there instead of Hudler now. Different right handness we are missing, better speed. Maybe as weak guy, but a lot better toolbox to help the team.

And he's cheaper. Brunner won't be 4 million player for us for the next four years. That doesn't make a difference at this season, but it will be difference at next season.

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01-22-2013, 07:07 AM
  #45
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Trade Cleary, Abdelkader and Quincy to the Flames for Iginla

Or just trade Cleary for a bag of pucks and a water bottle

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01-22-2013, 08:57 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by 67coach View Post
Trade Cleary, Abdelkader and Quincy to the Flames for Iginla
Feaster laughs at Holland. That package wouldn't even get us Hudler back.

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Old
01-22-2013, 09:42 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Think Calgary would go for Sammy+Bertuzzi for Hudler? Maybe add in whichever of Emmerton/Mursak/Eaves/Miller won't be sticking around.



I thought Cleary did well for his role tonight, actually. Looked better than Eaves, Abby, or most of the rest of the team.
Why do you continue insisting that Calgary would trade us Hudler?

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01-22-2013, 11:24 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Why do you continue insisting that Calgary would trade us Hudler?
It's not serious. It's mostly jabbing at those (like fabricoh) who, during the offseason, were insisting "Sammy is an upgrade" and "the Wings are better off keeping Bert and letting Hudler walk."

We didn't even make it to actual gameplay before that mindset wore out.

I hope Sammy and Bertuzzi have solid years, but I expect Hudler to have a year better than both combined.

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Old
01-22-2013, 11:25 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by iRep TheWingedWheel View Post
Feaster laughs at Holland. That package wouldn't even get us Hudler back.
It might get us Lee Stempniak.

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:33 PM
  #50
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Why do you continue insisting that Calgary would trade us Hudler?
Wait until Hudler sucks for a year.
Then Calgary will be dying to dump him and Holland will offer a first

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