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The Mikhail Grigorenko Thread

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Old
01-22-2013, 01:52 PM
  #101
HarryNealesGarden
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
I think Ellis will be waived but not be assigned to Rochester, The reality is we will get hit with injuries and no one will be waived.
Again, the important thing to remember is that the injury argument only works if they can keep one (if Grigs goes) or two (if Grigs stays) people on LTIR so they get roster exemptions. You can't put people on IR for a sprained pinky or something.

That's off-topic for the most part though, just something else to keep in mind as a side-effect of whether Grigs stays or goes.

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01-22-2013, 02:19 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
If you want to argue my point then come with facts....
how many shots on net did he have?
How many scoring chances last game?
I think he has 1 scoring chance, 2 shots on net, 0 hits in two games....sounds offensive to me.
I will wait two more games but if those stats donīt change.....
How many of our skill forwards hit? Vanek? Poms? Ennis? Hodgson?

If there are 8-10 scoring chances per game per team, not everyone gets one.

Its his second game in the pros. Come on...

I was pointing out that, in my opinion, he has a great deal of offensive upside. He has room to improve and the skill to do it. That is the definition of upside... You said he had no offensive upside. I disagree.

Lets see what the next few games bring and then what the GM and coach think after that.

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01-22-2013, 02:21 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by HarryNealesGarden View Post
Burning a year of his ELC isn't just about cold hard cash (the Golisano/Quinn concern), it's also about sound and responsible cap management. In order to build an elite team in this NHL, especially with the cap coming down considerably, you need young guys on super-cheap contracts. It's just good business sense.

Basically if they think there's a very low chance they win anything this season with or without Grigs, and that playing in the Q won't be overly negative for Grigs' development / playing in the NHL won't be overly positive, you could argue the smart thing to do is to send him back down no matter what and buy an extra season of him at a crazy-cheap cost.
I think your overvaluing one year on Grigorenkos ELC contract. Even if he does stay and kicks in year one, it is just a year earlier that he will earn a million or two more. As of now we aren't even at the cap so I don't think it's that crucial that we "save" the 1st year of his contract for an 82 game season.The way I look at it, he has been better then a few of the forwards out there and makes our team better. I see no reason he should be sent down, if anything he should be getting Folignos minutes on the 2nd unit PP... I have not been impressed with Foligno at all, I think Grigs has looked much better.

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:40 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Ennis had an assist on the Myers goal.
Wow i forgot so much about that I didn't even make a pick in the second sabres survivor game

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:44 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by HarryNealesGarden View Post
Burning a year of his ELC isn't just about cold hard cash (the Golisano/Quinn concern), it's also about sound and responsible cap management. In order to build an elite team in this NHL, especially with the cap coming down considerably, you need young guys on super-cheap contracts. It's just good business sense.
I think you could argue that needing to resign a 21-year old Grigorenko vs. a 22-year old Grigorenko could result in a significant salary difference, given that he should still be improving a lot at that age. As long as he's able to play at the NHL level right now without hindering his development, you might rather burn that first year now.

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:54 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Hecht has been better than Grigs in both games, don't kid yourself.
Hecht played like **** last night.....

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:54 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by punkr0x View Post
I think you could argue that needing to resign a 21-year old Grigorenko vs. a 22-year old Grigorenko could result in a significant salary difference, given that he should still be improving a lot at that age. As long as he's able to play at the NHL level right now without hindering his development, you might rather burn that first year now.
With the way Darcy negotiates the 2nd contract I never really worry about how much we end up paying someone that young. I think he's earned enough trust in that department and I doubt a years difference at that age would make much difference in his salary.

Then again, what do I know?

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:55 PM
  #108
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Lindy is screwing him over. The kid is an offensive wizard. His vision and one timer are both very good. He deserves a spot on the PP over Foligno... Just sending out a line isn't much of a PP. Give the kid a chance....

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Old
01-22-2013, 02:59 PM
  #109
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Burning a year of his ELC could actually be a good thing long term. If he starts to shine in 2 years we would have to pay up, but if he has an extra year to shine and absolutely lights it up, we could have to pay him a whole bunch more per year, long term. This is completely hypothetical but its not a farfetched scenario.

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01-22-2013, 03:00 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
Lindy is screwing him over. The kid is an offensive wizard. His vision and one timer are both very good. He deserves a spot on the PP over Foligno... Just sending out a line isn't much of a PP. Give the kid a chance....
We are 2 games in. Lets not jump to conclusions

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:04 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
Lindy is screwing him over. The kid is an offensive wizard. His vision and one timer are both very good. He deserves a spot on the PP over Foligno... Just sending out a line isn't much of a PP. Give the kid a chance....
He has played 2 NHL games and Lindy is screwing him over? He has played 2 NHL games and he "deserves" power play time? You can't be serious.

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:07 PM
  #112
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If leino is still out I would try:
Ennis-Grigorenko-Stafford
Foligno-Hecht-Ott

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:07 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by LGB24 View Post
We are 2 games in. Lets not jump to conclusions
No kidding.

We've also taken a lot of penalties so far so Grig's has actually been getting decent ice time. I believe he played just over 13 minutes last game, and I know he didn't get any PP time except for the last 28 seconds of the period and we really didn't even attempt to enter their zone, but I think Lindy is resistant to give him PP time in these close games.

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:08 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
He has played 2 NHL games and Lindy is screwing him over? He has played 2 NHL games and he "deserves" power play time? You can't be serious.
2 games of a 5 game stint. That's alot. So yes I am serious. When you have 5 games to show what you're made out of and you're on a line that features the likes of JOCHEN HECHT and occasionally KALETA and ELLIS and then you get ZERO pp time, I would characterize that as getting screwed over.

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:10 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by RockFlagAndEagle View Post
No kidding.

We've also taken a lot of penalties so far so Grig's has actually been getting decent ice time. I believe he played just over 13 minutes last game, and I know he didn't get any PP time except for the last 28 seconds of the period and we really didn't even attempt to enter their zone, but I think Lindy is resistant to give him PP time in these close games.
Not concerned about he ES time no problem with that. It's the fact that he is getting nothing more than that. After playing on a line that sometimes doesn't have Ott on it after PK's or PPs...

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:11 PM
  #116
1972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
2 games of a 5 game stint. That's alot. So yes I am serious. When you have 5 games to show what you're made out of and you're on a line that features the likes of JOCHEN HECHT and occasionally KALETA and ELLIS and then you get ZERO pp time, I would characterize that as getting screwed over.
Overraction much? Again 2 games, do you think that Lindy doesn't know that he hasent been in an offensive role or had PP time? If Lindy really wanted him to put up points he would see PP time and play on a more skilled line.

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:14 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Overraction much? Again 2 games, do you think that Lindy doesn't know that he hasent been in an offensive role or had PP time? If Lindy really wanted him to put up points he would see PP time and play on a more skilled line.
Does Lindy always know when to do the right thing and understand what fits players the best? or is he notoriously known for doing questionable things......

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:16 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
2 games of a 5 game stint. That's alot. So yes I am serious. When you have 5 games to show what you're made out of and you're on a line that features the likes of JOCHEN HECHT and occasionally KALETA and ELLIS and then you get ZERO pp time, I would characterize that as getting screwed over.
You're acting like Lindy doesn't know how he's using him. Lindy knows damn well how Grigs is being used, the way you're reacting it sounds like you think Lindy is putting him in a position to fail. He's not, he's trying to ease him into a league where he is a boy playing against men. He hasn't had any preseason games to practice, Lindy is trying to let him learn a bit vicariously, so he isn't rushed and make mistakes that costs the team. If he is sent down, it won't be because of his lack of production.

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01-22-2013, 03:17 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
Does Lindy always know when to do the right thing and understand what fits players the best? or is he notoriously known for doing questionable things......
Again, you have an issue with a 18 year old who hasent seen PP time 2 games into his NHL career, when guys who have been around a few years are finally getting that opportunity. Seems silly to get worked up over that. Especially when we have won both games and our PP has 2-3 goals I believe.

He has coached for 15 years in the NHL, I think him and Darcy know a thing or two about developing a player, better than anyone here..


Last edited by 1972: 01-22-2013 at 03:22 PM.
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Old
01-22-2013, 03:18 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
Does Lindy always know when to do the right thing and understand what fits players the best? or is he notoriously known for doing questionable things......
He knows more than you do. Rushing a player into a huge role without a real training camp or preseason games, sounds like you'd make a great coach

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01-22-2013, 03:22 PM
  #121
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I do think Grigorenko should get at least some 2nd unit time, but that's more because I just want to take that 'risk' and because that unit has been lousy. Hardly something to get on Ruff about, though.

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:26 PM
  #122
LGB24
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I do think Grigorenko should get at least some 2nd unit time, but that's more because I just want to take that 'risk' and because that unit has been lousy. Hardly something to get on Ruff about, though.
I think he should as well. But because he isn't, especially 2 games in, doesn't mean he's being ruined.

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:30 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by LGB24 View Post
He knows more than you do. Rushing a player into a huge role without a real training camp or preseason games, sounds like you'd make a great coach
Sounds like you don't understand nor read what I put. I NEVER said he was being ruined. Never did I say that. Nor did I say to rush him into anything. My main point is focused around getting him PP time. That was the ORIGINAL post. I think he deserves PP time due to the players he is playing with at ES. No one said anything about ruining him or rushing him.

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:30 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by LGB24 View Post
He knows more than you do. Rushing a player into a huge role without a real training camp or preseason games, sounds like you'd make a great coach
Agree with this.

SBB is notorious for grand sweeping statements that aren't well thought out to logical conclusions. Grigs will be fine. He's playing fine. He's getting the right amount of ice, and he's given the right amount of pressure. I don't always agree with Lindy moves, but in this case, Grigs is being handled fine.

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:31 PM
  #125
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not surprising that your assessment comes from that perspective.

I care almost nothing about the stats you listed. What I am looking for in 5 games is :
- Ability to recognize his lane/man on the back check
- Ability to rotate his coverages properly when hemmed in
- Puck awareness in the offensive zone
- Neutral zone transition skating
- Physical ability to compete along the boards

So far 3 specific plays have stood out

1. He won a physical battle in front of the net agaisnt Lupul preventing a goal. It highlighted both def zone awareness and physical strength
2. He made an excellent decision on the back check vs Toronto, dropping his man, as he went wide and picking up the guy crashing the net.
3. He set up Ott with an "eyes in the back of his head" pass, that should've been a goal vs Philly.

- He hasn't looked lost (awareness in all 3 zones is more than adequate, and even surprisingly good at times)
- He physically has no problem at this level (strength, size, conditioning)

I don't give a **** about points or hits.... I care about NHL quality shifts. If he is READY to play here physically and mentally, that's all that matters

at this point, sending him down would only be detrimental in my opinion
This, 100% this. Good lord let the kid walk before he runs.

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