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01-22-2013, 03:32 PM
  #126
SabresBillsBuffalo
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Again, you have an issue with a 18 year old who hasent seen PP time 2 games into his NHL career, when guys who have been around a few years are finally getting that opportunity. Seems silly to get worked up over that. Especially when we have won both games and our PP has 2-3 goals I believe.

He has coached for 15 years in the NHL, I think him and Darcy know a thing or two about developing a player, better than anyone here..
They also haven't won anything. I think the kid deserves PP time. Nothing absurd to propose to be honest. The guy isn't getting his fair shake and I'm not saying he is ruined or it's going to stunt his development its just he is not being used at a role he can perhaps flourish in. That's all.

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01-22-2013, 03:35 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
Sounds like you don't understand nor read what I put. I NEVER said he was being ruined. Never did I say that. Nor did I say to rush him into anything. My main point is focused around getting him PP time. That was the ORIGINAL post. I think he deserves PP time due to the players he is playing with at ES. No one said anything about ruining him or rushing him.
my mistake, you didn't say ruined you said screwed over. However I would argue demanding PP time in his first 2 games would be rushing him. Im not saying he's not ready for it, however if you're expecting points and bigger minutes/role right away thats a lot of pressure for an 18 year old playing in the best hockey league in the world for the first time.

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01-22-2013, 03:35 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Agree with this.

SBB is notorious for grand sweeping statements that aren't well thought out to logical conclusions. Grigs will be fine. He's playing fine. He's getting the right amount of ice, and he's given the right amount of pressure. I don't always agree with Lindy moves, but in this case, Grigs is being handled fine.
Yes. No logical explanation to what I put. What I said was really outlandish too... Did you even see? No where did I say he was being ruined. It is logical for one to say that he isn't being used in the role he could do very well it. That is a fair statement. And in a 5 game stint with 2 games gone to only see 28 seconds of PP time is very very questionable. I have NO PROBLEM with his ES time. Perhaps provide examples next time. Just saying.

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01-22-2013, 03:37 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
They also haven't won anything.
How many current NHL coaches have won a cup? My guess is most management teams havent won anything.

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01-22-2013, 03:38 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by LGB24 View Post
my mistake, you didn't say ruined you said screwed over. However I would argue demanding PP time in his first 2 games would be rushing him. Im not saying he's not ready for it, however if you're expecting points and bigger minutes/role right away thats a lot of pressure for an 18 year old playing in the best hockey league in the world for the first time.
I understand where you're coming from. I just want to see the kid get some second pp unit time. That isn't an outrageous thing to want. Especially when he is perhaps better suited than Foligno in that role. I don't mind his ES time I think that's fair for the penalties we've been taking. But it wouldn't hurt to give the kid some PP time when he's got 5 games to show what he is made of.

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01-22-2013, 03:39 PM
  #131
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If Hodgson or Ennis go down during the season, Grigs is a center who could step up and fill in on a top six role. Injuries happen, and with the lack of depth at center it would be smart to have the kid ready to step in when one hits.

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01-22-2013, 03:40 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
How many current NHL coaches have won a cup? My guess is most management teams havent won anything.
How many have stayed with the same team for 15 years? I understand many haven't won a cup but many haven't had teams that featured Drury, Briere, Vanek, Pommer,Roy, Stafford, Campbell, Numminen, Miller etc... Many coaches also haven't had the best goalie in the history of the league as well. (Hasek)

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01-22-2013, 03:44 PM
  #133
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Edit: see next post

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Old
01-22-2013, 03:46 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
I understand where you're coming from. I just want to see the kid get some second pp unit time. That isn't an outrageous thing to want. Especially when he is perhaps better suited than Foligno in that role. I don't mind his ES time I think that's fair for the penalties we've been taking. But it wouldn't hurt to give the kid some PP time when he's got 5 games to show what he is made of.
absolutely and I agree with you, I think he should get some time. I just don't think Lindy is screwing him over by not giving him time yet. The PP is 3-9 right now 33% and thats pretty good. If they have every intention of keeping him they may want him to wait a few games 5-10 before placing him in a more offensive role

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01-22-2013, 03:48 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
I understand where you're coming from. I just want to see the kid get some second pp unit time. That isn't an outrageous thing to want. Especially when he is perhaps better suited than Foligno in that role. I don't mind his ES time I think that's fair for the penalties we've been taking. But it wouldn't hurt to give the kid some PP time when he's got 5 games to show what he is made of.
They've already made up their mind. He's staying. They don't need to force feed him PP time to help them make their decision. His play at ES is the most important thing in terms of him keeping a spot. They are keeping him focused on that for now... PP time will come (when ready and/or necessary)

They are doing an excellent job of bringing him along.

Everyone should chill the **** out ... it's going perfectly

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01-22-2013, 03:56 PM
  #136
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I have no issue with the 2nd PP unit though they haven't done much. Its a good mix right now with your puck carrier in Ennis, the banger / front presence in Foligno and the shooter in Stafford. Grigorenko will get his chances sooner or later but he hasn't shown enough to supplant anyone yet.

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01-22-2013, 03:56 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
My thoughts on Grigs are simple :
He doesn't look like an "out of place" 18 year old.
So he stays
Perfectly worded.

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01-22-2013, 04:07 PM
  #138
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I hope Leino is healthy enough to play the next few games so we can see him and Grigs together as I thought they had great chemistry in camp.

Most 18 year olds are sent back because they are not ready to handle the defensive responsibilities in the NHL. Grigs has been very aware defensively the first 2 games.

I see him going back down if they decide they need to trade for a centre with tremendous faceoff skills. Otherwise, I hope he stays. He has had some offensive chances and the points will come. He will get PP time as the year goes on.

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01-22-2013, 04:11 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresBillsBuffalo View Post
How many have stayed with the same team for 15 years? I understand many haven't won a cup but many haven't had teams that featured Drury, Briere, Vanek, Pommer,Roy, Stafford, Campbell, Numminen, Miller etc... Many coaches also haven't had the best goalie in the history of the league as well. (Hasek)
I don't get the talk about how Darcy-Ruff have "never won a Cup". That's such an extreme result to make judgments on, when the difference between winning a Cup and going to Game 6 of the Finals or the Conference Finals is pretty slim and has a lot to do with luck. I look at it that they had two separate legitimate contending teams, one built around grinding out games with Hasek, and one built around high-flying and relentless scoring depth with Miller heavily relied-upon as a safety net. Bill Cowher was coach for like 75 years before he won a Super Bowl, yet it'd be pretty silly to argue that he wasn't anything short of a success for them up to that point.

I'm not saying this is an argument in favor of keeping Darcy/Lindy, either. I just hate arguments built solely around winning a championship or not, whether its management, coaches, or players. It's far too simplistic.

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01-22-2013, 04:16 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
I don't get the talk about how Darcy-Ruff have "never won a Cup". That's such an extreme result to make judgments on, when the difference between winning a Cup and going to Game 6 of the Finals or the Conference Finals is pretty slim and has a lot to do with luck. I look at it that they had two separate legitimate contending teams, one built around grinding out games with Hasek, and one built around high-flying and relentless scoring depth with Miller heavily relied-upon as a safety net. Bill Cowher was coach for like 75 years before he won a Super Bowl, yet it'd be pretty silly to argue that he wasn't anything short of a success for them up to that point.

I'm not saying this is an argument in favor of keeping Darcy/Lindy, either. I just hate arguments built solely around winning a championship or not, whether its management, coaches, or players. It's far too simplistic.
Well put, and it's why I said what I said a few posts ago.

Granted, the Stanley Cup is the ultimate goal.

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01-22-2013, 04:21 PM
  #141
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Quote:
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Nothing about what we're seeing from Grigorenko points to any negative stereotyping, be it age or nationality. He works hard in practice, his teammates appreciate him, and he comes across as being very committed to being the best player he can be (see his time here over the summer working out).
I continue to think he's working hard at the aspect of his game that needs the work -- defense at an NHL level -- and as he continues to acclimitize to the pace and size of the NHL game, he will start to generate offense. It may take games, weeks, months even -- he's not going to lose his God-given hockey abilities like how he leads a man to open space with his passing, how he handles the puck in traffic, or that whip-crack fast shot release. But for right now, he's keeping up defensively and that's likely enough to let them continue easing him into the league.

It seems some people are expecting instant domination. As was pointed out above, some damn fine hockey players put up relatively paltry first season point totals. The learned how to be good pros, since the game at this level is about more than just scoring.

Patience.

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01-22-2013, 04:23 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
I don't get the talk about how Darcy-Ruff have "never won a Cup". That's such an extreme result to make judgments on, when the difference between winning a Cup and going to Game 6 of the Finals or the Conference Finals is pretty slim and has a lot to do with luck. I look at it that they had two separate legitimate contending teams, one built around grinding out games with Hasek, and one built around high-flying and relentless scoring depth with Miller heavily relied-upon as a safety net. Bill Cowher was coach for like 75 years before he won a Super Bowl, yet it'd be pretty silly to argue that he wasn't anything short of a success for them up to that point.

I'm not saying this is an argument in favor of keeping Darcy/Lindy, either. I just hate arguments built solely around winning a championship or not, whether its management, coaches, or players. It's far too simplistic.
agreed... but consistency should be relevant when judging... and Ruff has never been consistently able to win/make the playoffs.

Ruff's had a few nice runs... but ultimately he misses the playoffs and loses in the first round too often. 9 out of 14 years without winning a playoff round is a bad resume IMO

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01-22-2013, 04:24 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I continue to think he's working hard at the aspect of his game that needs the work -- defense at an NHL level -- and as he continues to acclimitize to the pace and size of the NHL game, he will start to generate offense. It may take games, weeks, months even -- he's not going to lose his God-given hockey abilities like how he leads a man to open space with his passing, how he handles the puck in traffic, or that whip-crack fast shot release. But for right now, he's keeping up defensively and that's likely enough to let them continue easing him into the league.

It seems some people are expecting instant domination. As was pointed out above, some damn fine hockey players put up relatively paltry first season point totals. The learned how to be good pros, since the game at this level is about more than just scoring.

Patience.
that's what i said... but my vocabulary sucks

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01-22-2013, 04:25 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
agreed... but consistency should be relevant when judging... and Ruff has never been consistently able to win/make the playoffs.

Ruff's had a few nice runs... but ultimately he misses the playoffs and loses in the first round too often. 9 out of 14 years without winning a playoff round is a bad resume IMO
I don't disagree with this at all. I think he's a good to very good coach, not a great coach. I think ideally he'd have been replaced by now (like... before Dineen went to Florida), yet I'm not sitting here calling for him to be replaced at this moment either because I feel good enough about where things are at.

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01-22-2013, 04:26 PM
  #145
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Only 1 shift so far did I think he was a liability out there, not that bad. There have been a few nice defensive plays also. I think he is here to stay unless something dramatically changes over the next couple days. Biggest reason IMO he is here to stay is because we have no one else to replace him with. We cant depend on Hecht, so Darcy would have to probably pull a trade.

I think he can learn the NHL playing 10-13 minutes a game early on. He will get more comfortable every shift.

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01-22-2013, 04:29 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
I don't disagree with this at all. I think he's a good to very good coach, not a great coach. I think ideally he'd have been replaced by now (like... before Dineen went to Florida), yet I'm not sitting here calling for him to be replaced at this moment either because I feel good enough about where things are at.
yea, it's like a religious belief around here. it's been repeated for so long, that it's gospel

to me, it's hogwash

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01-22-2013, 04:40 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
They've already made up their mind. He's staying. They don't need to force feed him PP time to help them make their decision. His play at ES is the most important thing in terms of him keeping a spot. They are keeping him focused on that for now... PP time will come (when ready and/or necessary)

They are doing an excellent job of bringing him along.

Everyone should chill the **** out ... it's going perfectly
Jame is telling us to calm down. Something is terribly wrong.

He's played fine so far. I'm just happy he hasn't been a liability in the two games he's played so far. The points will come as time goes on and he earns more responsibility.

If he goes back to the Q, just one more season to develop into a superstar.

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01-22-2013, 04:41 PM
  #148
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He's defensively responsible and has some moves. he will get the swing of it as we go. I hope he sticks.

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01-22-2013, 08:34 PM
  #149
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No problem with how ruff is working him in right now.

In 2 years when this BS is still going on and he's Thomas Vanek part 2, then I'll worry.

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01-22-2013, 09:30 PM
  #150
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No problem with how ruff is working him in right now.

In 2 years when this BS is still going on and he's Thomas Vanek part 2, then I'll worry.
Yea, a 60-70 point forward at the age of 20-21 will suck soooooo bad. I will hate that. Mark my words I will haaaaaaaaaaate that!






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