I think we can move on from Brian Strait. He's gone and there are plenty of D in the system to bring up. He's an UFA this summer so if he really becomes a player and they want him back he will be available, unless of coarse, the Islanders lock him up before the end of the season. I'm sure he's thankful for the opportunity to show he can play in the NHL. It didn't look like the Pens were going to give it to him. We will see his progress, first hand, pretty soon and often.
I've seen this mentioned several times. Capgeek says he's a RFA.
__________________ "It’s not as if Donald Fehr was lying to us, several players said. Rather, it’s as if he has been economical with information, these players believe, not sharing facts these players consider to be vital."
Been watching the Isles game and he looked solid in the 1st. He made a nice play around his own blue line to break up an attack and get the Isles going the other way in transition but they didn't score. Isles fans giving him some praise in their GDT though.
He's a 4 year pro and will have played under 80 games. I believe they call it a group iv UFA.
*Group VI UFA, IV is in relation to "defected players".
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Group 6 Free Agents.
(i) Means any Player who is age 25 or older who has completed three (3) or more professional seasons, whose SPC has expired and: (i) in the case of a Player other than a goaltender, has played less than 80 NHL Games, or (ii) in the case of a goaltender, has played less than 28 NHL Games (for the purpose of this definition, a goaltender must have played a minimum of thirty (30) minutes in an NHL Game to register a game played). For the purposes of the foregoing, the term professional season shall: (A) for a Player aged 18 or 19, mean any season in which such Player plays in eleven (11) or more Professional Games (including NHL Regular Season and Playoff Games, minor league regular season and playoff games, and games played in any European professional league, while under an SPC), and (B) for a Player aged 20 or older, mean any season in which such Player plays in one or more Professional Games (including NHL Regular Season and Playoff Games, minor league regular season and playoff games, and games played in any European professional league, while under an SPC).
(ii) Any Group 6 Player shall, at the expiration of his SPC, become an Unrestricted Free Agent and shall be completely free to negotiate and sign an SPC with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign an SPC with such Player, without penalty or restriction, or being subject to any Right of First Refusal, Draft Choice Compensation or any other compensation or equalization obligation of any kind.
Good for Brian, at least he is getting the chance to play
Agreed.
Even if it wasn't the intention, waiving him was probably the best way to do right by Strait. He's done everything asked of him and been a rock on defense for WB/S for a while.
So he can poke check and make some outlet passes?....ooh so scary
My post wasn't meant as though we should be scared of him. I meant that Brian must be looking forward to proving to his old team that he belongs in the NHL. He obviously not a guy that's going to single handedly take over a game. I watched both of his games and he's played as expected, very solid defensively. I think he's just the right guy to play with Mark Streit since he's a minus machine on D. Unfortunetly Straits plus/minus will take a hit also.
You mean defending Fleury on the basis that he has shown the ability to backstop a team to multiple Cup finals, and win one? Yeah sure...
I'll take that as a yes, and then respond to your previous post with that in mind.
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Originally Posted by JTG
Hockey isn't baseball. You can't individualize a players stats in hockey, aside from goals and assists, and even then, those stats can be somewhat misleading. It's the ultimate team game, and trying to use an advanced statistic isn't going to work.
James Neal taking a shot shouldn't have an outcome on Paul Martin's advanced statistic. Paul Martin blowing coverage and allowing a guy to score a goal, shouldn't **** up James Neal's +/-. That's the problem I have with hockey statistics.
What is your position on QB rating in the NFL? It's an individual statistic but is also largely team influenced. A reciever can drop a wide open pass, or tip it directly to the opposing team and cost his QB an interception. Offensive lineman can blow their assignments and force their QB to make poor decisions. Yet, by and large, QB rating is an excellent indicator of a QB's effectiveness and ability level. Only the best QBs can maintain QB high ratings from season to season. The underlying point being that an individual stat that is directly affected by the players around them can still hold a lot of value.
Back to baseball, ERA is a stat that is largely driven by individuals but is still subject to a team's fielding ability. A team with a couple of gold glovers will be able to get to balls that other fielders wouldn't. That makes ERA an imperfect measure of ability. However imperfect != not valuable. If you were to have a bunch of pitchers with low career ERAs you would undoubtedly have an elite pitching staff.
James Neal taking a shot with Paul Martin on the ice isn't a random event. Paul Martin likely influenced this with his ability to defend and get the puck up the ice. If he's only maintaining a strong Corsi on account of his talented teammates, there are other advanced numbers which measure quality of linemates that we can use. We can also look at his Corsi relative to his own teammates, and WOWY (with you without you) numbers tell us what a player's Corsi is with and without specific players on the ice. All of these statistics can be used to get a solid idea of how valuable a player is. Is it perfect? No, but nothing is, and it's more valuable than the eyetest of 99% of HFers. Corsi is also not subject to noise the way plus minus is because of how many statistical events it measures. If James Neal gets off a shot that had nothing at all to do with anything Paul Martin did, it doesn't matter because it's only one of thousands of shot attempts during a season. It's not going to make an impact when all is said and done.
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Lovejoy and Martin's relative quality isn't the issue though. I only used Martin as an example to show the folly of slavishly following advanced statistics to determine quality.
Martin had the best Corsi of all our top 4 defensemen (including Letang) but he was atrocious last year by everyone's admission.
Corsi isn't a perfect measure of ability or how well a player is playing. But a consistently strong Corsi is the sign of a player who can influence goal differential at even strength. Paul Martin is very good at that and always has been, even during a down year. If you look at it through that lens instead of a tell all statistic you'll see that it has plenty of uses.
Corsi isn't a perfect measure of ability or how well a player is playing. But a consistently strong Corsi is the sign of a player who can influence goal differential at even strength. Paul Martin is very good at that and always has been, even during a down year. If you look at it through that lens instead of a tell all statistic you'll see that it has plenty of uses.
The whole point was that you were using it to defend retaining Lovejoy over Strait.
Corsi may have its uses, but a trump card in determining effectiveness or value to a particular team is not one of them.
I'll take that as a yes, and then respond to your previous post with that in mind.
What is your position on QB rating in the NFL? It's an individual statistic but is also largely team influenced. A reciever can drop a wide open pass, or tip it directly to the opposing team and cost his QB an interception. Offensive lineman can blow their assignments and force their QB to make poor decisions. Yet, by and large, QB rating is an excellent indicator of a QB's effectiveness and ability level. Only the best QBs can maintain QB high ratings from season to season. The underlying point being that an individual stat that is directly affected by the players around them can still hold a lot of value.
Back to baseball, ERA is a stat that is largely driven by individuals but is still subject to a team's fielding ability. A team with a couple of gold glovers will be able to get to balls that other fielders wouldn't. That makes ERA an imperfect measure of ability. However imperfect != not valuable. If you were to have a bunch of pitchers with low career ERAs you would undoubtedly have an elite pitching staff.
James Neal taking a shot with Paul Martin on the ice isn't a random event. Paul Martin likely influenced this with his ability to defend and get the puck up the ice. If he's only maintaining a strong Corsi on account of his talented teammates, there are other advanced numbers which measure quality of linemates that we can use. We can also look at his Corsi relative to his own teammates, and WOWY (with you without you) numbers tell us what a player's Corsi is with and without specific players on the ice. All of these statistics can be used to get a solid idea of how valuable a player is. Is it perfect? No, but nothing is, and it's more valuable than the eyetest of 99% of HFers. Corsi is also not subject to noise the way plus minus is because of how many statistical events it measures. If James Neal gets off a shot that had nothing at all to do with anything Paul Martin did, it doesn't matter because it's only one of thousands of shot attempts during a season. It's not going to make an impact when all is said and done.
Corsi isn't a perfect measure of ability or how well a player is playing. But a consistently strong Corsi is the sign of a player who can influence goal differential at even strength. Paul Martin is very good at that and always has been, even during a down year. If you look at it through that lens instead of a tell all statistic you'll see that it has plenty of uses.
A QB rating is contextual as any stat, but at least the QB is directly involved in a play that has a bearing on his stat, unlike +/- or this Corsi rating. A wideout may drop a ball, but a QB throws more incomplete passes on his own accord than receivers drop balls. But to answer your question, I don't put a ton of stock in a QB rating.
I don't really care to respond to anything else, because it's futile and after years of battles on this stuff, we'll never agree, aside from the bolded part.
That's one of the reasons I cannot take the stat seriously, and it's hilarious to even read that. James Neal taking a **** ton of shots was influenced by Paul Martin's defensive play. If Martin was given credit for a shot that James Neal took when Martin broke the puck out to him, I could maybe buy that a little more. But say Geno and Neal do one of their patented keep aways in the zone, take 4 shots in that time and score a goal, and all Paul Martin did was stand at the blueline, but he gets credited with 4 shots and a +...yeah, I'm never going to put stock in that.
I for one hope he does well, because it's a testament to our scouting and developing. But I'd also rather not see Strait's name brought up in every other post as if Shero could have somehow fetched any kind of return in a trade for him. Conflicted.
I for one hope he does well, because it's a testament to our scouting and developing. But I'd also rather not see Strait's name brought up in every other post as if Shero could have somehow fetched any kind of return in a trade for him. Conflicted.
I agree, I hope he does quite well. But I'm still disappointed that they kept Lovejoy over him. That's the part that gets to me the most.
While Strait has been a nice addition so far for the Isles, I wouldn't be losing sleep over waiving him. If anything I'd be pleased the Pens do a great job developing players. Your system probably has a ton of Straits you just don't know about yet. Whenever your team loses a Dman to injury you guys just bring up another quality solid defensman to kill time. Then when you get a surplus of these guys you'll waive them and give my team more guys to plug into the top 4. Then everyone's happy.
While Strait has been a nice addition so far for the Isles, I wouldn't be losing sleep over waiving him. If anything I'd be pleased the Pens do a great job developing players. Your system probably has a ton of Straits you just don't know about yet. Whenever your team loses a Dman to injury you guys just bring up another quality solid defensman to kill time. Then when you get a surplus of these guys you'll waive them and give my team more guys to plug into the top 4. Then everyone's happy.
even if the Pens had 939388272 Straits, giving their rival help is something that wouldn't make them happy.
unfortunately, when they put him on waivers, they had no say in the matter anymore.
i certainly don't think Strait will make the Pens regret letting him go, though, even if he performs solidly. it's not like they waived Letang or Niskanen.
