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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 3.0

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Old
01-22-2013, 10:16 AM
  #951
Lebowski
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
MacKinnon will go ahead of Drouin no matter what. Drouin is fun to watch, but he's all flash. MacKinnon is still the better overall player. Heck I'd still take him over Jones. I think people forget that Jones is almost a full year older than MacKinnon.
"But he's all flash". How so? Having great natural skills makes you all flash? To me he could end up an hybrid between Patrick Kane and Giroux. He needs to work on his skating, but he's a very, very (probably the most in this draft) offensively gifted player. Mackinnon is still the #2 at this point, but the remaining of the season and the playoffs might be the final push Drouin needed to pass Mackinnon.

What if he outscores him despite playing 5-6 games less? What if he ends up the playoff MVP? That sure would be good arguments in favor of his draft ranking. It also seems he started growing on some scouts too.

Regardless, I'd be ecstatic if we could land either of them on draft day, but the chance Drouin pass Mackinnon are now, in my opinion, more of a real possibility than ever.

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01-22-2013, 10:30 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
MacKinnon will go ahead of Drouin no matter what. Drouin is fun to watch, but he's all flash. MacKinnon is still the better overall player. Heck I'd still take him over Jones. I think people forget that Jones is almost a full year older than MacKinnon.
How do you figure that? Drouin is the more productive player given the same ice time/team/situations this year. Both at the WJHC and in the QMJHL.

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01-22-2013, 12:17 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How do you figure that? Drouin is the more productive player given the same ice time/team/situations this year. Both at the WJHC and in the QMJHL.
Because, of course, offensive production is all that matters in hockey.

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Old
01-22-2013, 12:31 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Because, of course, offensive production is all that matters in hockey.
Right, here on Hfboards, offensive ability is a marginal skill, being a distant second to shot-blocking ability, poke-checking, face-off efficiency and intangibles.

I agree, give your head a shake.

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01-22-2013, 01:12 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Right, here on Hfboards, offensive ability is a marginal skill, being a distant second to shot-blocking ability, poke-checking, face-off efficiency and intangibles.

I agree, give your head a shake.
Slight exaggeration, no?

The point I was making is that while Drouin might end up with better production doesn't necessarily make him the better prospect. Mackinnon still plays a much more complete game and that's very important in the eyes of the scouts, like it or not.

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01-22-2013, 01:34 PM
  #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Right, here on Hfboards, offensive ability is a marginal skill, being a distant second to shot-blocking ability, poke-checking, face-off efficiency and intangibles.

I agree, give your head a shake.
Saying Mackinnon doesn't have very good offensive ability himself is a very big stretch too.

The skepticism about Mackinnon reminds me a lot of Couturier last year, except Mackinnon is a much better offensive player than Couts was at the same year.

Kane has better hands and pure passing skill than Toews, that doesn't make Toews a lesser player, even offensively.

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01-22-2013, 03:20 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Because, of course, offensive production is all that matters in hockey.
If you are comparing two similar sized played who both play a heavily offensive minded game for the same team. Neither brings any OTHER skill that would make you take them top 5 in the draft.

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01-22-2013, 03:25 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
If you are comparing two similar sized played who both play a heavily offensive minded game for the same team. Neither brings any OTHER skill that would make you take them top 5 in the draft.
Have you ever seen MacKinnon play?

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01-22-2013, 03:45 PM
  #959
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Have you ever seen MacKinnon play?
Yes a whole bunch of times. 12-15 total.

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01-22-2013, 04:00 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Yes a whole bunch of times. 12-15 total.
Then you'd know Mack brings more than only offence.

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01-22-2013, 04:26 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Then you'd know Mack brings more than only offence.
Please enlighten me as to what great impact he will make in the NHL other than offense. Your sharade has gone on long enough.

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01-22-2013, 04:57 PM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Slight exaggeration, no?

The point I was making is that while Drouin might end up with better production doesn't necessarily make him the better prospect. Mackinnon still plays a much more complete game and that's very important in the eyes of the scouts, like it or not.
The only thing besides skating that Mackinnon has on Drouin is that he's a bit more physical. I wouldn't call that 'much more complete'.

They are both rather safe defensively and battle hard for the puck. But Drouin is smarter and more gifted with it. He is also more versatile than Mack, who looks like a fish out of water on the wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Saying Mackinnon doesn't have very good offensive ability himself is a very big stretch too.

The skepticism about Mackinnon reminds me a lot of Couturier last year, except Mackinnon is a much better offensive player than Couts was at the same year.

Kane has better hands and pure passing skill than Toews, that doesn't make Toews a lesser player, even offensively.
Couturier was a force offensively. It's a tough comparison to have because Mackinnon is more dynamic than Couts. But at the end of the day their offensive output was pretty much the same. But Couturier was playing with Ondrej Palat and Marc-André Vachon. Mack has two future NHLers on his wings.

Mackinnon is not Couturier. He has ways to go before becoming as aware defensively as Sean was. Sean was playing against the other team's best unit, and was still producing very good numbers. I don't think Mack's anticipation level will ever be as good as Couturier's, but he has a few other assets Couturier doesn't have either.


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Old
01-22-2013, 06:23 PM
  #963
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If i'm Bergevin having the choice between MacKinnon & Drouin,I'm a happy Hab GM.

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01-22-2013, 07:43 PM
  #964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Please enlighten me as to what great impact he will make in the NHL other than offense. Your sharade has gone on long enough.
All around play. He is good at everything but not great at something. His defensive game will get better and when it does it will be awesome to watch because he already has his explosion and speed down. He has all the tools to have success. He plays a lot bigger than his frame as well. He will bring a lot to an NHL team for years to come. I see his as a Tavares type player. I am not sold on Drouin at all. 5-10 range, sure, after guys like Barkov, Jones, Lindholm, Mac but he is to uni-dimensional to take a gamble on over Mac IMO.

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01-22-2013, 08:31 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
All around play. He is good at everything but not great at something. His defensive game will get better and when it does it will be awesome to watch because he already has his explosion and speed down. He has all the tools to have success. He plays a lot bigger than his frame as well. He will bring a lot to an NHL team for years to come. I see his as a Tavares type player. I am not sold on Drouin at all. 5-10 range, sure, after guys like Barkov, Jones, Lindholm, Mac but he is to uni-dimensional to take a gamble on over Mac IMO.
You don't draft somebody #1 or 2 or # because he is good defensively. If macKinnon is better than Drouin defensively it's not by a lot. MacKinnon won't be able to play "bigger than his frame" in the NHL or he will always be hurt, Koivu tried it and he was always hurt.

When drafting top 5 you look for impact, who can make an impact on your team, generate offense on his own and/or make linemates/teammates more productive.

MacKinnon will score 30-35 on his won with his speed and shot, Drouin will score 25-30 but have a pile of assists running the PP and setting up linemates much like Giroux(but faster and stronger on skates).

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01-22-2013, 09:30 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Please enlighten me as to what great impact he will make in the NHL other than offense. Your sharade has gone on long enough.
He will have an impact in every aspect of the game. He'll play on the power play, the penalty kill and at even strength. He's gonna be a great player in his own zone, play hard and win battles along the boards. All that while producing elite numbers and skating like the wind.

BTW, he's not small at all, he's most likely 6'1-6'2 and he's strong like a bull.

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01-22-2013, 10:46 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by QuebecPride View Post
Mackinnon is not Couturier. He has ways to go before becoming as aware defensively as Sean was. Sean was playing against the other team's best unit, and was still producing very good numbers. I don't think Mack's anticipation level will ever be as good as Couturier's, but he has a few other assets Couturier doesn't have either.
This is fair, Couturier has a very strong mental game, but Mackinnon is very driven and his speed alone gives him an advantage on both ends.

If I still think Mackinnon is a more complete player than Drouin I still don't think one makes the other the way the poster Carey Price implies about Mac and others about Drouin.

Actually I think on the offensive end there's a lot of parallels to the Yakupov/Galchenyuk case minus the injury factor. Mackinnon a bigger, center version of Yakupov, Drouin a smaller, winger version of Gally.

I'd take Mackinnon over Drouin, but it's not an easy decision. Of course I'd seriously consider Lindholm over either, so that's me...

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01-22-2013, 10:46 PM
  #968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
"But he's all flash". How so? Having great natural skills makes you all flash? To me he could end up an hybrid between Patrick Kane and Giroux. He needs to work on his skating, but he's a very, very (probably the most in this draft) offensively gifted player. Mackinnon is still the #2 at this point, but the remaining of the season and the playoffs might be the final push Drouin needed to pass Mackinnon.

What if he outscores him despite playing 5-6 games less? What if he ends up the playoff MVP? That sure would be good arguments in favor of his draft ranking. It also seems he started growing on some scouts too.

Regardless, I'd be ecstatic if we could land either of them on draft day, but the chance Drouin pass Mackinnon are now, in my opinion, more of a real possibility than ever.
"All flash" was a poor description. I think he's a very good player. What I meant to say is that people are getting caught up watching him since he is flashier than MacKinnon. But in my mind, MacKinnon is the better overall player. He plays more like a pro. More physical, stronger, scores more from the dirty areas. I worry about Drouin's ability along the boards in the NHL.

He's still a very good prospect that I would love in this organization, but I still think MacKinnon will be chosen before.

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Old
01-23-2013, 06:39 AM
  #969
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
He will have an impact in every aspect of the game. He'll play on the power play, the penalty kill and at even strength. He's gonna be a great player in his own zone, play hard and win battles along the boards. All that while producing elite numbers and skating like the wind.

BTW, he's not small at all, he's most likely 6'1-6'2 and he's strong like a bull.
You're making huge assumptions. He isn't even on the top PK in Halifax. He isn't anything special defensively and at his size he won't dominate anybody physically in the pros. He is the same size as Drouin, he just skates more upright while Drouin has a wider base and makes quicker cuts and is very strong on the puck.

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01-23-2013, 10:08 AM
  #970
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MacKinnon will be selected before Drouin cause he's a center and that's how you build a cup contender.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:45 AM
  #971
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Originally Posted by newtown33 View Post
MacKinnon will be selected before Drouin cause he's a center and that's how you build a cup contender.
Many teams believe MacKinnon is better suited as a winger in the pros...much like Kessel, Nash, Marleau etc.

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01-23-2013, 10:54 AM
  #972
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You're making huge assumptions. He isn't even on the top PK in Halifax. He isn't anything special defensively and at his size he won't dominate anybody physically in the pros. He is the same size as Drouin, he just skates more upright while Drouin has a wider base and makes quicker cuts and is very strong on the puck.
But he is.. at 17. The first PK is older guys, which is completly normal in the juniors.

And please, stop saying he has the same size as Drouin, it's simply not true.

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MacKinnon will be selected before Drouin cause he's a center and that's how you build a cup contender.

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01-23-2013, 11:12 AM
  #973
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
But he is.. at 17. The first PK is older guys, which is completly normal in the juniors.

And please, stop saying he has the same size as Drouin, it's simply not true.



So you're just talking out your ass ASSUMING he will become a top PK guy.

You're right they aren't the same size...MacKinnon is a half inch taller and Drouin is 6lbs heavier...

5'11" 179lbs vs 5'10.5" and 185lbs

http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.php.../ss_id/190000/

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01-23-2013, 11:20 AM
  #974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
"All flash" was a poor description. I think he's a very good player. What I meant to say is that people are getting caught up watching him since he is flashier than MacKinnon. But in my mind, MacKinnon is the better overall player. He plays more like a pro. More physical, stronger, scores more from the dirty areas. I worry about Drouin's ability along the boards in the NHL.

He's still a very good prospect that I would love in this organization, but I still think MacKinnon will be chosen before.
He didn't seem to have any trouble working the boards or dekeing through arguably the best D corpse Sunday vs Blainville. He made the best D in the league, Ouellet, look like a fool on one play.

As for your 2nd point, I agree. Mackinnon will be chosen before. Because he's closer to the NHL. But I'd pick Drouin because he'll be the best player down the road.

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01-23-2013, 11:39 AM
  #975
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After watching the recording of Sunday's Mooseheads @ Armada game, all I can say is just the mere thought of Drouin walking to the podium in Newark on June 29th to put on the CH and then spending 10-15 years creating offensive magic with Galchenyuk makes me want to start sobbing with joy.

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