HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Dallas Stars
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Putting the blame where it belongs

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-21-2013, 11:48 PM
  #101
Hull Fan
Czech Stop
 
Hull Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arlington, TX
Country: Albania
Posts: 5,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
Goes back further than that, though.....wasn't Tippett more or less FORCED into giving a young Loui Eriksson ice time?

Seems like no matter who's behind the bench, our coach is overly reliant on veterans.

Now, granted, when those veterans are guys Jaromir Jagr, exceptions can be made, but there's gotta be at least SOME signs that the coach has faith in the up and coming talent.
I have no problem with Jagr, Whitney, Ryder, Roy, etc. getting play time. It's when the combo of Morrow-Fiddler-Nystrom was basically invisible all game long and still got shifts ahead of Smith-Eakin-Garbutt that I have issues.

On the second of a back to back play your kids because they're far more likely to have energy and jump rather than Morrow and Fiddler who cannot be in game shape at this stage.

Hull Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2013, 12:28 AM
  #102
LatvianTwist
Global Moderator
 
LatvianTwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Houston
Country: Tibet
Posts: 18,092
vCash: 157
Jagr isn't the problem. When Fiddler, Morrow, Robidas, etc. are getting time over Eakin, R. Smith, Dillon, etc., then that's a problem.

EDIT - That's exactly what Hull Fan said, isn't it...

LatvianTwist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2013, 12:31 AM
  #103
SonicSpeedDash
20% Cooler
 
SonicSpeedDash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Amarillo, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 3,051
vCash: 500
And when you rely on Robidah and Goose to be the #1 D pair.

SonicSpeedDash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2013, 12:49 AM
  #104
beardedgraf
Registered User
 
beardedgraf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 706
vCash: 500
I used to be the guy always defending the vets but I have really turned south regarding Robidas. I would like him as a third pairing D playing around 12 minutes or less. I agree with everyone the Goose/Robi pair is just bad. Im really getting down on Goligoski too but I know it is early still and hes not an old guy. I would really like to see him paired with a big stay at home Dman possibly Nemeth or Oleksiak in the future...I dunno just I am just really bummed about our D at the moment

beardedgraf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2013, 12:52 AM
  #105
Cin
Eurosnob.
 
Cin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Country: Thailand
Posts: 7,177
vCash: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune Forumwalker View Post
Yeah, remind me again. What were your thoughts on Trevor Ludwig? The book is still out on three of the players you just listed. There is no way Bachman could get a pick and a prospect too. It would be no more than a 3rd right now, but at the deadline probably a 2nd.
Remind me where you've made any bold predictions? Remember when I was absolutely bludgeoned for calling Glennie a bust before others? I'll stand out of the crowd, thanks though spectator

So to keep things on topic again... How is the power play fixed? How is the neutral zone transition game fixed? How do we utilize players in roles better suited for them?

A lot of you like to just point out flaws instead of contributing to the conversation, so here's your opportunity to get back in.

Cin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2013, 11:39 AM
  #106
Mr Misty
The Irons Are Back!
 
Mr Misty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,302
vCash: 500
I think it is down to the coaches. Given the high profile that Morrow and Robidas have on the team, it is hard to take away their responsibility without damaging the team's morale. Maybe Morrow needs to be given a certain role to motivate others, and if he isn't able to lead by example things could get much worse. Also, the psychology of being a coach favors relying on veterans ahead of inexperienced players. Both Dillon and Benn have had little hiccups out there, but if they do so on the PP and give up a shortie, Gully gets the blame for giving them responsibility before they are ready. If Robidas and Gologoski play poorly, then it is somebody else's fault, either GMJN for not getting better players or the vets themselves for not being "leaders" on the ice. I don't think these kind of things are unique to Gully or brand new coaches either, it is just the way things are.

Mr Misty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2013, 12:15 PM
  #107
Shady12
12-13 FGotG Champion
 
Shady12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: WesTex
Country: United States
Posts: 1,970
vCash: 500
Well, looks like Eakin and Wandell are swapping tonight..so that's at least a nudge in the right direction for playing young guys more.

Shady12 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2013, 01:06 PM
  #108
StarsFan74
Registered User
 
StarsFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Country: India
Posts: 2,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
I think it is down to the coaches. Given the high profile that Morrow and Robidas have on the team, it is hard to take away their responsibility without damaging the team's morale. Maybe Morrow needs to be given a certain role to motivate others, and if he isn't able to lead by example things could get much worse. Also, the psychology of being a coach favors relying on veterans ahead of inexperienced players. Both Dillon and Benn have had little hiccups out there, but if they do so on the PP and give up a shortie, Gully gets the blame for giving them responsibility before they are ready. If Robidas and Gologoski play poorly, then it is somebody else's fault, either GMJN for not getting better players or the vets themselves for not being "leaders" on the ice. I don't think these kind of things are unique to Gully or brand new coaches either, it is just the way things are.
That is a big factor too, IMO.

StarsFan74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2013, 01:22 PM
  #109
Mr Misty
The Irons Are Back!
 
Mr Misty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
That is a big factor too, IMO.
I agree, but given the options he has had it is hard for me to come up with a fix for the defense. There are few teams interested in Robidas, the Stars had no chance at Suter, Wideman Carle and Garrison were overpaid, etc. Too many teams need the kind of defensemen the Stars need, and before Gaglardi and his money entered the picture there wasn't very much that GMJN could do.

Mr Misty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2013, 04:23 PM
  #110
Cin
Eurosnob.
 
Cin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Country: Thailand
Posts: 7,177
vCash: 558
Very happy about Eakin and Wandell switching. Hopefully changes to the PP as well!

Cin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2013, 09:50 PM
  #111
Cin
Eurosnob.
 
Cin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Country: Thailand
Posts: 7,177
vCash: 558
Had a good transition in the neutral zone tonight. Wingers were always where they should be and the centers helped down deep to fish for pucks.

Power play had better movement.

Eakin on the second makes the team look different, just have to see how that relates to a better opponent. It'll be interesting to see how things shake out whenever Benn is back in the squad.

I thought Daley had a a very strong game, and Benn made some very, very nice passes. Would like to see him not stand in the crease so much. Hopefully Jerrard can get that taken care of.

Cin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2013, 11:33 PM
  #112
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Korea
Country: United States
Posts: 15,050
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
Both Dillon and Benn have had little hiccups out there, but if they do so on the PP and give up a shortie, Gully gets the blame for giving them responsibility before they are ready. If Robidas and Gologoski play poorly, then it is somebody else's fault, either GMJN for not getting better players or the vets themselves for not being "leaders" on the ice.
I can't disagree with this enough.

If a coach repeatedly puts a player, any player, in a situation where he continually fails then that's on the coach. None of us on here are screaming for Joe's head when we see Robidas out there on the PP, every one of us who has a negative view of that move is *****ing at Gulutzan. Blame only comes back around on a GM once a coach has utilized variations of personnel with the same negative results. Also, most fans and media will realize that a rookie making a mistake of the variety you mention is to be expected. What is also expected is that he learn from it and makes it as rarely as possible. With the veterans there is no hope they get better, they truly are what they are, and in the cases of the older guys can only be counted on to get even worse.

glovesave_35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 12:08 AM
  #113
Mr Misty
The Irons Are Back!
 
Mr Misty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I can't disagree with this enough.

If a coach repeatedly puts a player, any player, in a situation where he continually fails then that's on the coach. None of us on here are screaming for Joe's head when we see Robidas out there on the PP, every one of us who has a negative view of that move is *****ing at Gulutzan. Blame only comes back around on a GM once a coach has utilized variations of personnel with the same negative results. Also, most fans and media will realize that a rookie making a mistake of the variety you mention is to be expected. What is also expected is that he learn from it and makes it as rarely as possible. With the veterans there is no hope they get better, they truly are what they are, and in the cases of the older guys can only be counted on to get even worse.
I don't mean that the coach shouldn't be held responsible for sticking with what isn't working, but it is unrealistic to expect a coach to be bold. Some people here want Gully to make radical changes, but he is trying to keep his job and preserve his reputation so that he can get another one when his time in Dallas ends. Other coaches, like Hitch for instance, don't like to give big roles to inexperienced players either.

I do think part of sticking with that pairing is the hope that they will build up some chemistry and get up to speed in this shortened season.

Mr Misty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 12:29 AM
  #114
StarsFan74
Registered User
 
StarsFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Country: India
Posts: 2,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
I agree, but given the options he has had it is hard for me to come up with a fix for the defense. There are few teams interested in Robidas, the Stars had no chance at Suter, Wideman Carle and Garrison were overpaid, etc. Too many teams need the kind of defensemen the Stars need, and before Gaglardi and his money entered the picture there wasn't very much that GMJN could do.
I know we never had a chance at Suter, and I didn't want Wideman or Carle since they're the same kind of undersized d-men we already had. I had a liking for Garrison.....but that topic is dead. That said, I do think we may have to take a look at this year's UFA d-man pool. Not spectacular, but Regehr (most likely he re-ups with Buffalo since Pegula's personal visit convinced him to be traded), Whitney, Scuderi, and Smid jumped out. Our farm d-men are still 2 years away and it's better we can add at least one big body guy to our corps.

StarsFan74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 12:45 AM
  #115
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Korea
Country: United States
Posts: 15,050
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
I don't mean that the coach shouldn't be held responsible for sticking with what isn't working, but it is unrealistic to expect a coach to be bold. Some people here want Gully to make radical changes, but he is trying to keep his job and preserve his reputation so that he can get another one when his time in Dallas ends. Other coaches, like Hitch for instance, don't like to give big roles to inexperienced players either.
Two things. One, Hitch has changed his ways in recent years. And two, if Gulutzan is coaching for his second NHL gig in the current era of the NHL it might be a better selling point to be able to win games while relying on and bringing along younger (cheaper) players.

glovesave_35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 06:58 AM
  #116
Troy McClure
Registered User
 
Troy McClure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Win it for Robidas!
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 24,913
vCash: 500
If Gully plays safe to the point where he coaches the league's worst power play two seasons in a row, he might be coaching his way out of the NHL.

Troy McClure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 09:41 AM
  #117
piqued
Global Moderator
shift
 
piqued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 30,848
vCash: 27750
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
I know we never had a chance at Suter, and I didn't want Wideman or Carle since they're the same kind of undersized d-men we already had. I had a liking for Garrison.....but that topic is dead. That said, I do think we may have to take a look at this year's UFA d-man pool. Not spectacular, but Regehr (most likely he re-ups with Buffalo since Pegula's personal visit convinced him to be traded), Whitney, Scuderi, and Smid jumped out. Our farm d-men are still 2 years away and it's better we can add at least one big body guy to our corps.
Both Oleksiak and Nemeth should be ready after this season.

piqued is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 09:48 AM
  #118
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,873
vCash: 500
Jagr could have easily had 3 points last night. He was a beast in his first game, looked average in his second game and was again the best player on the ice last night other than the 2 goalies. Veterans being given the icetime is fine as long as they can handle it and earn it. Jagr is not the problem and neither is Whitney.

The problem is Morrow being given minutes and especially on the powerplay considering he's useless there. They should have either Roy or Eriksson with Whitney and Jagr on the powerplay.

I personally think that when Jagr gets hot, he's going to be putting up dominant numbers. He has looked like the Jagr of "ol" so far and not the "old" Jagr. So we won't be discussing whether Jagr deserves the icetime but whether he will deserve more icetime. Dare I say he's been decent in the defensive zone and throwing his weight around?


Last edited by livewell68: 01-23-2013 at 10:10 AM.
livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 12:22 PM
  #119
Cin
Eurosnob.
 
Cin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Country: Thailand
Posts: 7,177
vCash: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Two things. One, Hitch has changed his ways in recent years. And two, if Gulutzan is coaching for his second NHL gig in the current era of the NHL it might be a better selling point to be able to win games while relying on and bringing along younger (cheaper) players.
I'm glad somebody else said this before me. Hitch has changed quite a bit, but he still holds all of his players accountable. I want Gully to work out, and I'm a huge fan of his. However, his success in the AHL is starting to be seen as just good talent on the bench. There's just too many questions about the things he does up with Dallas, and unfortunately I don't see a lot of those things changing. Hope I'm wrong, but if I'm not I'd like a coach like Hitch to come in.

Tortorella would be my dream candidate.

Cin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 12:45 PM
  #120
StarsFan74
Registered User
 
StarsFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Country: India
Posts: 2,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Both Oleksiak and Nemeth should be ready after this season.
Let's say they're ready to play next season. However, can they take up the responsibilities of a 1/2D and eat up ice-time? I doubt it.

StarsFan74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 12:58 PM
  #121
piqued
Global Moderator
shift
 
piqued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 30,848
vCash: 27750
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
Let's say they're ready to play next season. However, can they take up the responsibilities of a 1/2D and eat up ice-time? I doubt it.
I don't think that really matters if you're making the group stronger and serious about building from within.

Daley
Goligoski
Larsen
Dillon
Oleksiak
Nemeth

Rome/Benn

Is what we ought to be looking at, ordered in terms of seniority. Daley and Larsen can eat up ice time, Goligoski can as well to a lesser extent. Maybe Dillon has made some strides by next season. Maybe Oleksiak can step right in and take more responsibility than your average rookie. Anyway that's a group you can grow with. All of a sudden it doesn't look so undersized either, does it?

piqued is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 01:05 PM
  #122
hairylikebear
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
 
hairylikebear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 1,973
vCash: 500
What do you think they'll do with Robidas? AHL?

I think one of Oleksiak or Nemeth, probably Oleksiak, makes the jump next year, and the other the year after that when Robidas' contract expires.

hairylikebear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 01:13 PM
  #123
piqued
Global Moderator
shift
 
piqued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 30,848
vCash: 27750
I don't really know, I just think his play has descended to a level where it can't be swept under the rug anymore. They have to find a way out of his contract, whether it's with an amnesty buyout or a trade with little to no return, or even a trade where they pick up part of his salary.

piqued is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 01:13 PM
  #124
Troy McClure
Registered User
 
Troy McClure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Win it for Robidas!
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 24,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairylikebear View Post
What do you think they'll do with Robidas?
Every time a Stars fan complains about Robidas, Gully gives him another 15 seconds in ice time.

Troy McClure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2013, 01:14 PM
  #125
FrailSwan
A-B-We Stole Your C
 
FrailSwan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 2,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Every time a Stars fan complains about Robidas, Gully gives him another 15 seconds in ice time.

FrailSwan is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:54 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.