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01-23-2013, 02:42 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I think right now his biggest weakness is his defensive game, which really isn't a big weakness at all. From the games I've seen this year he seems to backcheck hard and generally makes the smart play when in his own zone.

Physically, I don't see him having much of a problem at the NHL level. Honestly I see him giving opponents a bigger problem. He's a big kid who clearly likes to play physical. Even last year I thought that was the best part of his game towards the end of the year. You could tell he was starting to look more comfortable in his role and was getting involved more in that aspect. IMO he's already miles ahead of Okposo, in terms of getting involved physically(hopefully KO changes that though).

He's a good skater, for a big kid. If you watched the Isles-Soundtigers scrimmage I'm sure you would have noticed that. While not a burner, he has a powerful stride. Isn't afraid to crash the net. Again, definitely not something that would hold him back at the next level. IMO this area of his game would actually allow for him to have success early on at the next level.

As far as bad games hitting him hard, I don't necessarily know if that will be the case. I know he had a couple of games where he went pointless around the time he found out he wasn't getting a crack at the NHL, then followed it up with a 2-goal game. That said, I don't think anyone will really know for sure until he does it at the NHL level.

I do agree that there is more that a kid like Nino could learn at the AHL level, but I'd also argue that there is more that a kid like Granlund could learn at the AHL level, or a kid like Huberdeau at the CHL level. They were promoted because their respective teams felt like they could contribute to them having success this year. With the lineup this team threw out on opening night, I would have put Nino in that same boat(Strome as well, but that's another story). I do agree that Nino being here in a 4th line role would be pointless, but IMO the 3rd line would be perfectly reasonable. When Frans Nielsen is your 2C, you are going to need some scoring out of your 3rd line. This wouldn't have been your typical checking line. I'm assuming the Isles could have tried to roll some kind of 2A and 2B.

Either way, I do respect your approach with these kids and feel there is little downside to taking that route. At the same time, I feel there is little upside to icing a roster of waiver wire pickups, especially when you have a kid who is expected to be a big part of this team's future knocking on the NHL door. Having Nino here seemed like a no-brainer to me.
Now consider this:

We're holding ALL of our prospects back this strike year.

the prospects during the lockout last time did VERY WELL in comparison to other years, being left to develop longer and in better/more agreeable settings. (maturity and experience).

The games in Bridgeport have him on THE TOP LINE....and playing in a well spaced schedule.

The games in NY would have him playing with JT, Moulson, Boyes (who has a history of success), Grabner (same), Bailey (better overall player), Okposo (who he could unseat), and Nielson ahead of him.

The season in the NHL is tighter, not much spacing and a greater chance to get hurt normally (tougher) but especially with the condensed schedule.

Add those up: safer, solid team (Bridgeport looks like a solid AHL team, the Isles look like a solid AHL team playing NHL TEAMS), less disappointment, more icetime, better linemates. Why wouldn't you want him to continue to develop there? He has a lesser chance to get hurt by the talent or scheduling advantage and can gain more confidence scoring.

I do hope if we have injuries he gets to wing Aucoin, who I think is the best guy to dish passes to him IMHO. I would hope honestly if he HAS TO come up he has Okposo on his right wing with Aucoin centering, on line 3. THAT would build confidence and lend to his abilities.

But as he's a pretty important prospect.....4 games every six nights is rough. And that's all year. I hope he's not needed for some time.

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01-23-2013, 03:01 AM
  #327
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1st off whats this love affair with Can Fowler??? He fell to 12th so in hindsight 6 other teams had a chance to grab him and let him go. Here are the players picked before him and by position.
6.RW Brett Connolly Tampa
7.C Jeff SKinner Carolina
8.C Alexander Burmistrov Atlanta
9.W Mikael Granlund Minnesota (love this kid, just getting his shot this year)
10.D Dylan McIlrath Rangers
11.G Jack Campbell Dallas
If anyone should be kicking themselves its the Rags!!

Fowler had a great rookie season playing with great talent around him and i know he is still very young with lots of upside so we shall see in years to come what kind of player he really is.These are his stats in his 1st 2 years and notably again he was/is playing with lots more talent then he would have here, see Getzlaf,Ryan,Perry,Selanne and Visnovsky that 1st season.

10/11 76 10 30 40 -25
11/12 82 5 24 29 -28

Obviously very good/great stats 1st year maybe a sophmore slump in the 2nd but his +/- is horrifying so people acting like he the next coming of Lidstrom or Pronger i dont see that happening but we shall see.

Edit: just found this article http://kuklaskorner.com/index.php/ps...worst_adjusted
"Cam Fowler is no stranger to posting poor puck possession stats. Last season he posted the worst adjusted Corsi rating in the league. These numbers show that Fowler has had problems adjusting to NHL play. Fowler is a future NHL star who has been playing a big role in the NHL as a teenager. In fact when I wrote about the lack of established elite defencemen today commenter CMo44 listed Fowler as an elite defenceman who is well on his way."

"He has clearly been given a big role on the Anaheim Ducks. Many interpret this as a sign he is a star. What people don’t notice is that he is struggling defensively. When Fowler is on the ice, the other team has the puck and they score more goals than his team does. Fowler struggles at even strength. He isn’t ready to play the role that he has been given. Perhaps he never will be ready."

"Cam Fowler is a young defenceman. His story as a top draft pick who has immediately jumped into a big role in the NHL makes many think he is already an NHL star. He isn’t. He has been a liability to his team. He does have a lot of potential and might improve as he grows into his NHL career. However right now he is not a star defenceman despite what many want to believe."

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01-23-2013, 03:42 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by MattMartin View Post
1st off whats this love affair with Can Fowler??? He fell to 12th so in hindsight 6 other teams had a chance to grab him and let him go. Here are the players picked before him and by position.
6.RW Brett Connolly Tampa
7.C Jeff SKinner Carolina
8.C Alexander Burmistrov Atlanta
9.W Mikael Granlund Minnesota (love this kid, just getting his shot this year)
10.D Dylan McIlrath Rangers
11.G Jack Campbell Dallas
If anyone should be kicking themselves its the Rags!!

Fowler had a great rookie season playing with great talent around him and i know he is still very young with lots of upside so we shall see in years to come what kind of player he really is.These are his stats in his 1st 2 years and notably again he was/is playing with lots more talent then he would have here, see Getzlaf,Ryan,Perry,Selanne and Visnovsky that 1st season.

10/11 76 10 30 40 -25
11/12 82 5 24 29 -28

Obviously very good/great stats 1st year maybe a sophmore slump in the 2nd but his +/- is horrifying so people acting like he the next coming of Lidstrom or Pronger i dont see that happening but we shall see.

Edit: just found this article http://kuklaskorner.com/index.php/ps...worst_adjusted
"Cam Fowler is no stranger to posting poor puck possession stats. Last season he posted the worst adjusted Corsi rating in the league. These numbers show that Fowler has had problems adjusting to NHL play. Fowler is a future NHL star who has been playing a big role in the NHL as a teenager. In fact when I wrote about the lack of established elite defencemen today commenter CMo44 listed Fowler as an elite defenceman who is well on his way."

"He has clearly been given a big role on the Anaheim Ducks. Many interpret this as a sign he is a star. What people don’t notice is that he is struggling defensively. When Fowler is on the ice, the other team has the puck and they score more goals than his team does. Fowler struggles at even strength. He isn’t ready to play the role that he has been given. Perhaps he never will be ready."

"Cam Fowler is a young defenceman. His story as a top draft pick who has immediately jumped into a big role in the NHL makes many think he is already an NHL star. He isn’t. He has been a liability to his team. He does have a lot of potential and might improve as he grows into his NHL career. However right now he is not a star defenceman despite what many want to believe."
Plus/minus is horrible. Similar to Mark Streit last year who was -27 and is already -3 this year. Mark's been on for 4 of the 5 goals scored against us. To have another guy in the same category would kill us. Have to admit I was wrong I thought Fowler's rating was better than what it is.

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01-23-2013, 03:57 AM
  #329
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Habs will give you Yannick Weber who is another Mark Streit,and
Lars Eller .

Weber 40-55 pts top 4 dman on the Islanders mark my words.
(Weber)has been misused(as a forward and scratched) exactly same as Mark Streit was,before he went over to you guys.


Eller 55-65 pts as a Islander

Weber got a good bomb from point,good wrist shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKYCggSRkqI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7eEA5vj2a4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2TTPPixOo4


Last edited by Habaneros: 01-23-2013 at 04:12 AM.
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01-23-2013, 04:26 AM
  #330
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For all the curious: Nino's agent, Andy Rufener, confirms that it was his idea to ask for a trade, convincing Nino it was the best for his development. He says it takes full responsibility on eventual fall-out but that he has to do the right thing for Nino. He doesn't see a future for Nino with this GM and this Coach.

Full interview with the agent (in german):
http://www.20min.ch/sport/eishockey/story/-Nino-muss-zu-einem-Team--das-an-ihn-glaubt--30354469

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01-23-2013, 04:38 AM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Habs will give you Yannick Weber who is another Mark Streit,and
Lars Eller .

Weber 40-55 pts top 4 dman on the Islanders mark my words.
(Weber)has been misused(as a forward and scratched) exactly same as Mark Streit was,before he went over to you guys.
Weber will never hit 40 points, let alone 55. He was a liability for the defense wherever he played. Even during the lockout, he managed to have a -1, playing for the best team in the league. I doubt he'll ever crack a top 6 on any team in the NHL.

To the interview: Nino's agent, says he has no chance on a roster spot. And he don't thinks it was a bad move to call out the GM, because it can't get any worse for Nino.

I think he should shut his mouth. I'm sure Nino will get his chance. He has played 40 games in the AHL. It's not like he'd get burned for 3 years in the AHL...

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01-23-2013, 04:42 AM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Habs will give you Yannick Weber who is another Mark Streit,and
Lars Eller .

Weber 40-55 pts top 4 dman on the Islanders mark my words.
(Weber)has been misused(as a forward and scratched) exactly same as Mark Streit was,before he went over to you guys.


Eller 55-65 pts as a Islander

Weber got a good bomb from point,good wrist shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKYCggSRkqI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7eEA5vj2a4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2TTPPixOo4
isles don't trade Nino to improve their 3rd pairing or for a smaller young forward prospect,with lower upside.

They'd want their own smallish pmd Donovan, De Haan, Kitchon, Russo,Ness in that pmd role.

And with prospects Nelson, Kabanov, Ullstrom, Sundstrom and Cizikas pushing nhlers Tavares, Moulson, KO, Grabner, Nielsen for limited spots I don't see Eller's as a big addition, to get excited over.

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01-23-2013, 04:46 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by SwissGrog View Post
For all the curious: Nino's agent, Andy Rufener, confirms that it was his idea to ask for a trade, convincing Nino it was the best for his development. He says it takes full responsibility on eventual fall-out but that he has to do the right thing for Nino. He doesn't see a future for Nino with this GM and this Coach.
Great, maybe the agent doesn't have Nino best interests in mind. He does make $$ off of each of his clients. Islanders are starting to be know as the team that doesn't OVERPAY for any player. (because they are kinda cheap). Logically then any players agent, in this case Nino, would get less. Go onto another team make more possibly.

There is a spot on this team for any player if he is worth it. Unlike other teams that push guys out the door quickly. Heck the Isles held onto Brendan Witt for way too long.

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01-23-2013, 04:47 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by WeberStreit View Post
Weber will never hit 40 points, let alone 55. He was a liability for the defense wherever he played. Even during the lockout, he managed to have a -1, playing for the best team in the league. I doubt he'll ever crack a top 6 on any team in the NHL.

To the interview: Nino's agent, says he has no chance on a roster spot. And he don't thinks it was a bad move to call out the GM, because it can't get any worse for Nino.

I think he should shut his mouth. I'm sure Nino will get his chance. He has played 40 games in the AHL. It's not like he'd get burned for 3 years in the AHL...
So apparently it is Nino's agent working on his own here. If Nino has any balls he'd fire him immediately because if your agent's a loose cannon who knows what's gonna happen? I guess he is owed a percentage of Nino's salary and as long as he's in the minors his income drops considerably. A-hole!

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01-23-2013, 05:05 AM
  #335
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It's roughly 5% contract and 5% endorsements is what the agent gets. I am assuming some of that goes to the actual agency that the agent works for unless he/she is independent. I met a pro football player (soccer) on the plane once..young kid..so I figure it would be roughly the same.

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01-23-2013, 05:40 AM
  #336
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I think the agent is just trying to back track a bit and do some pr spin. I seriously doubt he would request a trade without nino's blessing. Hopefully this back track means that nino had reconsidered his position.

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01-23-2013, 05:55 AM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissGrog View Post
For all the curious: Nino's agent, Andy Rufener, confirms that it was his idea to ask for a trade, convincing Nino it was the best for his development. He says it takes full responsibility on eventual fall-out but that he has to do the right thing for Nino. He doesn't see a future for Nino with this GM and this Coach.

Full interview with the agent (in german):
http://www.20min.ch/sport/eishockey/story/-Nino-muss-zu-einem-Team--das-an-ihn-glaubt--30354469
Wow, he is really full of....
Unfortunately I am able to read the full interview. Never read so much crap in so few lines. Obviously he is completely ruthless. Says that Nino has nothing to lose anymore with the Islanders and that's why he did it. Says he would have done the same thing with Sbisa but the only reason why he didn't do anything was because only coach Randy Carlyle was the problem and that he knew that he was going to be fired soon anyway. But at the islanders Nino "has no chance under this coach and GM". Just wow. In a negative way.

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01-23-2013, 05:56 AM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by original islander View Post
Plus/minus is horrible. Similar to Mark Streit last year who was -27 and is already -3 this year. Mark's been on for 4 of the 5 goals scored against us. To have another guy in the same category would kill us. Have to admit I was wrong I thought Fowler's rating was better than what it is.
We all get lost in numbers at times. Imagine him on our team 2 years ago everyone would be killing us for ruining his development and also like i said he was playing with some sick skilled forwards. Here would have been on the 3rd d pairing with Mark Eaton playing 8 minutes a game = )

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01-23-2013, 07:00 AM
  #339
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I think the agent is just trying to back track a bit and do some pr spin. I seriously doubt he would request a trade without nino's blessing. Hopefully this back track means that nino had reconsidered his position.
Not at all. This is the agent trying to to take "responsibility", which costs the agent nothing, in order to secure Nino some comfort until this is worked out.

The trade request was made during camp. Nino was sat down during camp to discuss this after the scrimmage (as per Staple via Schultz), and this comes out, from the agent, days later. That means that Nino and his agent are signaling that they are not going to let this rest. The only reasonable assumption is that they will continue to make an issue of it in an attempt to force the Islanders' hand.

It seems to me that doing nothing won't work, because it hasn't worked already. I think the Isles have two reasonable choices: (1) Trade Nino now, or (2) Call. By "Call", I mean call Nino up, and play him with Fransie and Grabner for 6-8 games. Challenge him, publicly if you like. If he plays well either keep him or you trade him at a higher value. If he plays badly, the Islanders are no worse off than they would be just leaving him in the minors.

I think if he remains in the minors, his effort will deteriorate. Nino and his agent don't care that his trade value may suffer. They only care that an organization can be found that likes Nino and believes the Islanders have bungled the situation from the start. There's got to be at least 10 of those. Probably many more.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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01-23-2013, 07:00 AM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissGrog View Post
For all the curious: Nino's agent, Andy Rufener, confirms that it was his idea to ask for a trade, convincing Nino it was the best for his development. He says it takes full responsibility on eventual fall-out but that he has to do the right thing for Nino. He doesn't see a future for Nino with this GM and this Coach.

Full interview with the agent (in german):
http://www.20min.ch/sport/eishockey/story/-Nino-muss-zu-einem-Team--das-an-ihn-glaubt--30354469
I tried to translate it for you guys. Hope it helps you in any way, since I guess it's pretty terrible

Quote:
"Nino has to go to a team that believes in him"

Don't you think that you are risking too much while asking for a trade of Nino Niederreiter?
No, I'm not risking anything at all. Nino Niederreiter is the top scorer of the farm team and doesn't get a chance in the NHL. Last season he never got a chance, too, and literally wasted away in his 3rd and 4th line role. He has nothing to lose on Long Island, it can’t get any worse. I would never ask for a trade if there still was something to lose.

Was it your idea to ask for a trade or Nino’s?
It was solely my idea and I have told Nino how I will proceed and that I will take over all responsibility for this. It’s not rushed at all. I thought about this for a long time and and gathered different opinions towards this topic.

So you can’t see any chances for Nino Niederreiter with the Islanders?
To be honest: Not with this GM and not with this headcoach.

So one can understand this as a cry for help?
Yes, if you want to call it that way. Now every NHL franchise knows that there is a chanceless 1st round draft pick that wants to leave.

Are there any reactions?
Yes. And many agree with me.

You had a comparable, but not as dramatic situation with Luca Sbisa. Sbisa too got relegated to the farm team, even though he was way too good for that. But you didn’t do anything back then.
This situation was different: I knew that the problem was Randy Carlyle, whose time was basically up with Anaheim. Luca Sbisa was highly regarded by the GM and we simply had to wait, until Carlyle was fired.

What are you going to do now?
We’ll see. I’ll have some tough negotiations with GM Garth Snow when Nino’s contract is over in two years, anyway. I want Nino Niederreiter on a team, that believes in him and that gives him a chance. It doesn’t matter if this team is the New York Islanders or a different team.

Be honest: You hope that you will have to negotiate with the successor of Garth Snow.
It was you who said that, not me.

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01-23-2013, 07:04 AM
  #341
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You almost have to trade Nino now because it doesn't sound like Nino's agent will even give Snow the time of day in negotiating a new contract.

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01-23-2013, 07:06 AM
  #342
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Wow, he is really full of....
Unfortunately I am able to read the full interview. Never read so much crap in so few lines. Obviously he is completely ruthless. Says that Nino has nothing to lose anymore with the Islanders and that's why he did it. Says he would have done the same thing with Sbisa but the only reason why he didn't do anything was because only coach Randy Carlyle was the problem and that he knew that he was going to be fired soon anyway. But at the islanders Nino "has no chance under this coach and GM". Just wow. In a negative way.
Yeah, that's rough, but why is it full of it? He's exercising his leverage when it is absolutely plausible that Nino's development has been bungled from the start. It's ruthless, sure, but we're not his client. It doesn't have to sound good to us.

Cheers,

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01-23-2013, 07:15 AM
  #343
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It's roughly 5% contract and 5% endorsements is what the agent gets. I am assuming some of that goes to the actual agency that the agent works for unless he/she is independent. I met a pro football player (soccer) on the plane once..young kid..so I figure it would be roughly the same.
There's a huge difference between 5% of 67K and 2.95 million

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01-23-2013, 07:22 AM
  #344
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yeah i hope he negotioated with Garth Snow's replacement too.

this is all so frustrating. and imagine how frustrating it is as a player, can you really blame Nino? look at how this organization is run. yes i know he had 1 goal last year, but who was he playing with?

finally he has some confidence back and they dont even invite him to camp? instead they pull all these guys off of waivers? that is a slap in the face! but will it ever change? would you risk your short window of an NHL career to find out?

we can all hope this changes when the team moves to Brooklyn (this is not a "we should stay on long island" post, i love the brooklyn move), but can we be certain? i am not so sure anymore.

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01-23-2013, 07:40 AM
  #345
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yeah i hope he negotioated with Garth Snow's replacement too.

this is all so frustrating. and imagine how frustrating it is as a player, can you really blame Nino? look at how this organization is run. yes i know he had 1 goal last year, but who was he playing with?

finally he has some confidence back and they dont even invite him to camp? instead they pull all these guys off of waivers? that is a slap in the face! but will it ever change? would you risk your short window of an NHL career to find out?

we can all hope this changes when the team moves to Brooklyn (this is not a "we should stay on long island" post, i love the brooklyn move), but can we be certain? i am not so sure anymore.
But what prospect made the team? I could understand if Strome, Reinhart, Nelson and/or Donovan had been given a shot at the big club. However, before the kids could take their gear off from practice they told them to just pack it because they were heading back to their respective affiliates.

The fact of the matter here is maturity. Which comes as a huge surprise to me, because Nino was touted as a very "high character" young man coming into his draft year. Nino was not passed over for anyone else within the organization and I am willing to bet Nino is the first call up in the event of injury.

Everyone knows this shortened (everything) will change the style of hockey the NHL offers. Between the condensed (everything) and the lack of continuity, players will be hurt, under perform, over achieve, etc...

Nino is developing his game in the minors and getting the minutes that are required to develop.

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01-23-2013, 07:45 AM
  #346
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The way I see it is that Nino was talked into it. The agent probably said "I have more experience than you do. Take my advice, this will work".

Nino is only 20. You are 20..you DO NOT know the business side of things, so you trust the guy that represents you because he is "supposed" to know what direction to go.

That's most likely what happened. Agent said, I think this way is best, would you like me to proceed.

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01-23-2013, 07:54 AM
  #347
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Streit needs to give Nino a call and talk to him about changing agents. It sounds like this guy is a piece of work.

Now that he's opened his mouth, he's basically screwed his client.

Snow is known for sticking to his guns. He wants to develop Nino in the AHL, and is doing basically what the agent wants, since he said that he was unhappy with Nino being on the 3rd or 4th line. Who does Nino play over in the current top 6?
JT - Hah.
Moulson - Nope.
Okposo - Not really.
Grabner - No chance.
Nielson - Nuh uh.
Boyes - Maybe.
Then add in Bailey and Joensuu, and there's no chance.

The thing now is, what if Okposo gets injured. Do you think Nino gets a call-up. No way. That's basically telling players, if you don't like being in the minors, ask for a trade and you'll get your way. We know Snowie don't play that.

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01-23-2013, 07:59 AM
  #348
Islanders1932
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Isles are not going to trade Nino. This was simply a ploy to get a quicker call up and Garth is not going to budge. This will all be forgotten about in time. If Nino continues to yap then I would just bury him in the minors to teach others a lesson about pulling this kind of crap.

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01-23-2013, 08:04 AM
  #349
Dan-o16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse View Post
The thing now is, what if Okposo gets injured. Do you think Nino gets a call-up. No way. That's basically telling players, if you don't like being in the minors, ask for a trade and you'll get your way. We know Snowie don't play that.
Nino has played well in the AHL, and talented players have the leverage.

Beating your head against reality is dumb.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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01-23-2013, 08:05 AM
  #350
GentlemanOfLeisure
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Nino & Scott Mayfield for Adam Larsson.

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