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01-22-2013, 12:26 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
Agreed.

He looked aggressive and decisive offensively.

I would be beyond giddy if he and Kane turned out to be the Jets best players thus year.
Well, considering how LLW are playing right now, there is hope!

You don't care how they become our best players, right?

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01-22-2013, 08:25 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
It's too bad the Jets weren't afforded the same luxury as your other examples that got to develop as the Thrashers rushed Burmi and forced the Jets' hands on his development.
I'm sorry sir, what kind of luxury you're talking about?

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01-22-2013, 12:11 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Fuelled by Passion View Post
I'm sorry sir, what kind of luxury you're talking about?
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Originally Posted by Fuelled by Passion View Post
I personally don't like his role on a team and how he is used and developed by Jets. Ever since Noel took over this team Burmi is doing not what he suppose to do. This of you who says he will get going offensively obviously didn't see the kid before the draft. He was loaded offensively. I believe his offensive skills have degraded. Just a reminder Burmi was drafted before Mikael Granlund, Tarasenko and Kuznetsov. And I don't buy the stories about poor choice or bad analyzing skills of scout. Especially for this guys coming from Europe. He clearly looked better choice especially offensively. Now it is about developing players.
Tarasenko (I'm so jealous now) waited for his opportunity to play in NHL and to play in top-6, STL didn't force him to play on 4-th line, they let him go to KHL and enjoy hockey.
Granlund - you think he can't play on 3-rd or 4-th line of Minnesota? I bet he could, but instead he was playing in his home country enjoying hockey. Same goes for Silfverberg
Kuznetsov - hasn't played a game in NHL. But somehow I feel he will be a real deal and if comes to play for Washington it won't be to play on 3-rd or 4-th line

P.S I have exactly same opinion about Mark Scheifele, you either let him play where he belongs or let him go back to Colts. He will not reach hi potential playing with Thorburn and Slater
The luxury being every single one of your examples waited two years before being brought into the NHL.

Atlanta management and coaching forced Burmistrov into the lineup following his draft year. Jets management can't do anything about that, unless they have a time machine.

He hasn't always been afforded the ability to play in a top 6 role while developing. Right now the team is trying to win games and therefore the best use of Burmistrov is on the 3rd line. However, I think Noel will do the same as he did last year and when the team looks close to elimination he'll put Burmi in the top 6 during the last half of the year.

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01-22-2013, 12:18 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by jimsabo21 View Post
3) James Neal was up and down between the AHL and the Stars, never given enough ice time to put up any kind of numbers. A trade to the Pens, some powerplay time, and you have yourself an 80 point player
While I agree with the premise of your post, Neal became an 80 point player because he has a very good shot and plays with Malkin. Not taking anything away from him at all. That pairing has been a gold mine for the Pens.

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01-22-2013, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
The luxury being every single one of your examples waited two years before being brought into the NHL.

Atlanta management and coaching forced Burmistrov into the lineup following his draft year. Jets management can't do anything about that, unless they have a time machine.

He hasn't always been afforded the ability to play in a top 6 role while developing. Right now the team is trying to win games and therefore the best use of Burmistrov is on the 3rd line. However, I think Noel will do the same as he did last year and when the team looks close to elimination he'll put Burmi in the top 6 during the last half of the year.
Part of the problem isn't just that he was rushed, but that he had only played 1-year in North America before playing in the NHL. Burmi has great defensive instincts but his offensive decision making needs fine tuning. They just have to round that out and he can be a 2nd line shutdown center that can put up 60+ points. I really see him and Schief being out top 2 centers for years to come.

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01-22-2013, 01:40 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
While I agree with the premise of your post, Neal became an 80 point player because he has a very good shot and plays with Malkin. Not taking anything away from him at all. That pairing has been a gold mine for the Pens.
Also, Neal had a ridiculous SH% for power play...
If you remove his power play goals he actually has the worst even strength goal scoring rate of the top 10 goal scorers last season.

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01-22-2013, 01:44 PM
  #32
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Part of the problem isn't just that he was rushed, but that he had only played 1-year in North America before playing in the NHL. Burmi has great defensive instincts but his offensive decision making needs fine tuning. They just have to round that out and he can be a 2nd line shutdown center that can put up 60+ points. I really see him and Schief being out top 2 centers for years to come.
Agreed.

Scheif = strong offensive instinct but not super amazing shutdown
Burmi = strong shutdown instinct but not super amazing offensively

If these guys do reach their upside they are basically exactly what you want for a 1C and 2C, stylistically wise. Both are kind of 2way but basically you'd want to:
give Scheif's line (most likely with Kane and Wheeler) the Sedin treatment
give Burmi's line (most likely with Little and Ladd) the Kesler/Bergeron treatment

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01-22-2013, 04:08 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
The luxury being every single one of your examples waited two years before being brought into the NHL.

Atlanta management and coaching forced Burmistrov into the lineup following his draft year. Jets management can't do anything about that, unless they have a time machine.
No sir, I'll have to disagree with you. I've said it before and I'll say it again "You don't hire carpenter to do a plumber job". And that is exactly what was done with Burmi and it is been done with Mark. They are top-6 players and top-6 are harder to find then bottom-6. If Atlanta management decided to fill holes in roster with a very talented prospect it doesn't mean that Winnipeg Jets has to follow this idea. After all with changing team's location many expected a big attitude change.
Burmi is very talented offensively and the fact that many think that his best part of play is defense scares me. Cuz if there is one thing you can't buy in any sport it is talent. Why would we sign Oli Jokinen and wouldn't give Burmi or Mark a chance to play top-6? After all Jet's don't have true #1 center, both Little and Jokinen are #2 centers at the most. Both Alex and Mark are our best shot to become future #1, so why do they play in third and 4-th lines?

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01-22-2013, 04:28 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Fuelled by Passion View Post
No sir, I'll have to disagree with you. I've said it before and I'll say it again "You don't hire carpenter to do a plumber job". And that is exactly what was done with Burmi and it is been done with Mark. They are top-6 players and top-6 are harder to find then bottom-6. If Atlanta management decided to fill holes in roster with a very talented prospect it doesn't mean that Winnipeg Jets has to follow this idea. After all with changing team's location many expected a big attitude change.
Burmi is very talented offensively and the fact that many think that his best part of play is defense scares me. Cuz if there is one thing you can't buy in any sport it is talent. Why would we sign Oli Jokinen and wouldn't give Burmi or Mark a chance to play top-6? After all Jet's don't have true #1 center, both Little and Jokinen are #2 centers at the most. Both Alex and Mark are our best shot to become future #1, so why do they play in third and 4-th lines?
Last game Scheifele was pushed into the Ozone (50% started in the Ozone when his linemates started 20% of their shifts there) in very sheltered scoring minutes
Last game 80% of Burmistrov's shifts started in the 0-zone although much tougher minutes
and if you argue about linemates they both have received PP time

the problem isn't usage... they are being given offensive usage time... the problem you could argue is the amount of time they've received.. but I don't think they've earned it yet... but they are knocking on the door

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01-22-2013, 04:33 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Fuelled by Passion View Post
No sir, I'll have to disagree with you. I've said it before and I'll say it again "You don't hire carpenter to do a plumber job". And that is exactly what was done with Burmi and it is been done with Mark. They are top-6 players and top-6 are harder to find then bottom-6. If Atlanta management decided to fill holes in roster with a very talented prospect it doesn't mean that Winnipeg Jets has to follow this idea. After all with changing team's location many expected a big attitude change.
Burmi is very talented offensively and the fact that many think that his best part of play is defense scares me. Cuz if there is one thing you can't buy in any sport it is talent. Why would we sign Oli Jokinen and wouldn't give Burmi or Mark a chance to play top-6? After all Jet's don't have true #1 center, both Little and Jokinen are #2 centers at the most. Both Alex and Mark are our best shot to become future #1, so why do they play in third and 4-th lines?
It also has to do with development, like we're seeing with Scheifele. Those guys have to earn that top 6 spot. If we keep Scheifele up only to play his current spot then yes you are correct, that's very bad on management and coaching. What I'm saying is the team was given Burmi as a member of the NHL roster, but Burmi couldn't beat out our other top 6 players. Some of which weren't even top 6ers. Burmi has yet to earn himself a spot on the top 6.

Burmi was literally gifted a top 6 spot at the end of last year and it wasn't something he earned. He also didn't do anything at all with that time. He was also given PP time and did nothing with it. I also think you're going to see a difference with how they bring in Scheifele. I don't think the org is going to keep him up if the best spot we can give him is not top 6. I think he'll even possibly split time with the AHL next year. I think right now he's getting his 5-game taste of the NHL to help motivate him further.

I agree with you in theory. I think around the league however top level players on other teams aren't given top 6 roles. They've earned them. Tarasenko started (and maybe still plays) on the 3rd line. His talent spoke for himself and he was given more icetime and PP time because he produced. Burmistrov has yet to do that. Whether it was 2nd line center duties last year or top line center duties (in the AHL) this year.

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01-22-2013, 05:34 PM
  #36
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I'm not gonna argue my point. Last I gonna say say that in NHL there are teams that know how to develop a player (aka Philadelphia) and teams that just struggle doing so (aka Montreal). I wouldn't want to see Winnipeg becomes "can't develop prospects" team.
I have different approach. I believe a talented player doesn't have to earn his top-6 minutes, he has to receive them with legit line-mates when he is ready. If he screws up then he will have to earn this minutes back. After all how many UFA top-6 C or wingers you see every year and how much it cost to sign them? Now look at bottom 6 and tell me where it is easier to fill the holes.

P.S Tarasenko wasn't playing on 3-rd line he has started with Steen and McDonalds which is 1-st or second STL line


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01-22-2013, 05:45 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Fuelled by Passion View Post
I'm not gonna argue my point. Last I gonna say say that in NHL there are teams that know how to develop a player (aka Philadelphia) and teams that just struggle doing so (aka Montreal). I wouldn't want to see Winnipeg becomes "can't develop prospects" team.
I have different approach. I believe a talented player doesn't have to earn his top-6 minutes, he has to receive them with legit line-mates when he is ready. If he screws up then he will have to earn this minutes back. After all how many UFA top-6 C or wingers you see every year and how much it cost to sign them? Now look at bottom 6 and tell me where it is easier to fill the holes.

P.S Tarasenko wasn't playing on 3-rd line he has started with Steen and McDonalds which is 1-st or second STL line
Couturier had to work his way up in Philli

Tarasenko is right now 9th in TOI/game for STL

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01-22-2013, 09:44 PM
  #38
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Apparently it's to be a bad-ass. Loving his defensive/physical play.
Just needs to improve his offensive game, but I think once he pots one it'll come together.

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01-22-2013, 10:10 PM
  #39
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Based on what I saw last year, performance in the A (or not) this year and the first 2 games this year I don't see a role for him going forward... ....really. Should look at unloading him for a real prospect.

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01-22-2013, 10:20 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Agreed.

Scheif = strong offensive instinct but not super amazing shutdown
Burmi = strong shutdown instinct but not super amazing offensively

If these guys do reach their upside they are basically exactly what you want for a 1C and 2C, stylistically wise. Both are kind of 2way but basically you'd want to:
give Scheif's line (most likely with Kane and Wheeler) the Sedin treatment
give Burmi's line (most likely with Little and Ladd) the Kesler/Bergeron treatment
And THAT'S the key here. Scheif is good enough defensively for a potential 1st liner and Burmi is already past where one would expect him to be defensively and he's obviously too skilled NOT to be at least a 50 point player, and that's the down-side. The production offensively will never be a problem with Kane and Scheif on one line and Burmi and Little on another.

On a side note.... God I love the fact that for once management has DIRECTION. Something Waddell never seemed to figure out.

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01-22-2013, 10:27 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Fuelled by Passion View Post
I'm not gonna argue my point. Last I gonna say say that in NHL there are teams that know how to develop a player (aka Philadelphia) and teams that just struggle doing so (aka Montreal). I wouldn't want to see Winnipeg becomes "can't develop prospects" team.
I have different approach. I believe a talented player doesn't have to earn his top-6 minutes, he has to receive them with legit line-mates when he is ready. If he screws up then he will have to earn this minutes back. After all how many UFA top-6 C or wingers you see every year and how much it cost to sign them? Now look at bottom 6 and tell me where it is easier to fill the holes.

P.S Tarasenko wasn't playing on 3-rd line he has started with Steen and McDonalds which is 1-st or second STL line
Steen and McDonald is the third line. That's how crazy deep that team is. Go ahead and ask on the St. Louis board.

Here's a GDT: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1328855

Pretty sure that's McDonald-Steen-Taresenko right there on the third line.

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01-22-2013, 11:16 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Steen and McDonald is the third line. That's how crazy deep that team is. Go ahead and ask on the St. Louis board.

Here's a GDT: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1328855

Pretty sure that's McDonald-Steen-Taresenko right there on the third line.
Yeah when you're 7th among team forwards in ES ice time, you're playing on the 3rd line.

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01-23-2013, 01:15 AM
  #43
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No sir, I'll have to disagree with you. I've said it before and I'll say it again "You don't hire carpenter to do a plumber job". And that is exactly what was done with Burmi and it is been done with Mark. They are top-6 players and top-6 are harder to find then bottom-6.
Burmi is very talented offensively and the fact that many think that his best part of play is defense scares me. Cuz if there is one thing you can't buy in any sport it is talent.
Jet's don't have true #1 center, both Little and Jokinen are #2 centers at the most. Both Alex and Mark are our best shot to become future #1, so why do they play in third and 4-th lines?
The carpenter/plumber analogy does not work well in the NHL. Stanley Cups are won by teams who have solid defensive play by all their players except perhaps the offensive superstars. Burmi has never been one and never will be. And their historical performances (by the numbers) suggest you may be underestimating Little and Jokinen's talent relative to Burmi and Scheifele's.


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Originally Posted by lablite47 View Post
Based on what I saw last year, performance in the A (or not) this year and the first 2 games this year I don't see a role for him going forward... ....really. Should look at unloading him for a real prospect.
The variability in Burmi's assessments is truly amazing...but the above comment makes no sense. He is already, at the age of 21, an excellent shutdown centre and penalty-killer extraordinaire, with top-6 potential. That's a damn fine role. What kind of prospect would you realistically unload him for?

At the risk of repeating myself, this kid is exactly where he needs to be. Just sit back, be patient and enjoy watching him grow. He's a treat to watch.

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01-23-2013, 08:14 AM
  #44
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Based on what I saw last year, performance in the A (or not) this year and the first 2 games this year I don't see a role for him going forward... ....really. Should look at unloading him for a real prospect.
I disagree 100% with this. If I could disagree more than 100% I would.

IMO, Burmi has had a very good 3 games for us so far this season. He has been excellent in the role he has been asked to play (3rd line, PK). His skating alone looks world class out there, and he has been excellent on the PK.

Burmistrov is one of the best prospects we have. He is right there beside Scheifele and Trouba IMO.

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01-23-2013, 08:18 AM
  #45
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Well, lablite47, that's just plain wrong


Burmistrov was great in the first three games. He plays in a defensive role and does what he is asked from Noel extremely well.

This is what I said about hin in the PGT:

Quote:
Burmistrov is another "not flashy but a machine on the ice" player. He's still without a point... and I actually have no idea why. Burmi is a beast going backwards. He will be a hell of a PK-player. Book it. He skates, he dekes, he speeds up or slows down the game. He still doesn't shoot enough but that's probably his only weakness left right now. Man, I'm impressed Burmi. I mean... he isn't even afraid to mess with Chara... any other questions?

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01-23-2013, 08:20 AM
  #46
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I have absolutely loved Burmistrov thus far. If/when he begins putting up some points, and his confidence grows in that area, this kid should be a real player. In my own opinion his future is indeed comparable to that of a "poor mans Datsyuk". I don't ever expect Burmistrov to put up 80+ points, that's quite hard to do. But if Burmistrov can become a consistent 60-70 point guy, then he will certainly be a "poor mans Datsyuk" in my opinion because this kid looks like he can do it all. With good coaching and things falling in place for him, the kid has all the tools, the sky is the limit for him. If he can become a 60-70 point player, I wouldn't rule out him being in Selke discussions in the future years.

I caution myself with Burmistrov at this point in the season because he had a great start to last season as well, but to me that is just the growing pains of a young player. I want and hope to see him put it together this season.

Love Burmistrov. His intensity and ferociousness on the ice is superb and makes up for his lack of size, in my opinion. You don't want a team full of guys Burmistrov's size, but a couple won't hurt you especially if they're as feisty as Burmistrov is, always going at guys and using his stick like a damn weapon. If he can begin putting up some offensive points here people across the league will know this kids name real quick.

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01-23-2013, 09:53 AM
  #47
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I've said it before and I will say it again. Burmistrov is the second coming of Jere Lehtinen he is going to be a amazing 2-way forward. Just watching him last night his effort defensively is twice that of any other Jet.

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01-23-2013, 12:56 PM
  #48
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When you have a young player who unselfishly gives up offense to be a defensive gem, you know you have a keeper. Noel has said he wishes Burmi would take more offensive chances, but the guy is so worried about hurting the team he doesn't. He needs to come back towards an offensive mindset somewhat but you really have to admire that kind of team first dedication.

No matter what Burmi ends up being, he will be a great asset to the team and a must have for us to be successful going forward.

He may not end up being what people expected him to be, but if he ends up being an essential piece of a winning team, does that really matter in the end? A champion is made up of many different types of players.

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01-23-2013, 02:45 PM
  #49
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Both Burmi and Kane were hella fun too watch for the past 2 games. I'm loving what Burmi brings.

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01-23-2013, 07:45 PM
  #50
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I caution myself with Burmistrov at this point in the season because he had a great start to last season as well, but to me that is just the growing pains of a young player. I want and hope to see him put it together this season.
My sentiment as well. Alot of skill and speed but nothing much ever seems to happen offensively? He was drafted to be a top 6 forward and with his skill level he should be, not to be a 3rd line checker. Gaining some weight and physical presence would help. 180 lbs will not cut it. Has to stop dipsy doodling and start getting things done! Don't believe he can consistently produce as a top 6 forward unless he gains weight and becomes stronger on the puck.

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