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Old
01-23-2013, 06:50 AM
  #326
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On a good team he'd be a rising star.
On the Jackets we're holding our breath that he won't turn out like every other #1 pick we've had (with that one exception who's now starring for TNYR). So far, compared to the expectations, I'm not impressed and turning blue.

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01-23-2013, 08:18 AM
  #327
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I thought JyJo looked fine again Monday night. The team as a whole came out sort of flat, but a major part of that was the fact that Detroit came in to play a very responsible, defensive scheme to avoid hemorrhaging goals again like they did against the Blues.

If I had to complain about any performances on Monday it would not be RyJos. His pass that sprung Cam was sublime, and I thought he was solid all night.

As far as I am concerned, where the Jackets are now, this short season is the perfect time to get him valuable minutes and more acclimated to the NHL game.

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01-23-2013, 08:22 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
In 64 games, he has exactly two more goals and one more point than Alex Picard did in 67.
Well then he's an upgrade.

I'm not saying who he will become. I am stating that Snow isn't going to take a lowball offer on the back of his rookie season. Any expectation of that is downright silly.

We may not think it is a lowball offer, but at this point it is to the GM that drafted him and certainly to their fanbase. Let us go vulture somewhere else shall we? If we really thought he was going to end up as a Brule, we wouldn't be offering Savard would we?

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01-23-2013, 10:20 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
WHL expert?

Nino and Ryan fed off of each other in Portland. There's no other way to put it - Ryan is a smooth set-up guy, physical, with good hands. Nino is an up-and down player with a wicked shot ... also physical. I do see the concerns with his skating, but it isn't bad enough that it will cost you goals. His hockey IQ isn't off the charts, but it isn't bad either. I was a little bit surprised to see him go 5th overall - I thought he was a 'tweener top-10 pick personally, though I also had Ryan Johansen listed somewhere around 8. What was interesting was that, as his draft season wore on, while Ryan and Brad Ross seemed to ramp up and get better, Nino seemed to taper off and become less effective. The following year he was - good - not nearly great. Last year is a year he will have to forget if he's going to put a decent career together.

I mentioned on the other thread that I think he's worth an Erixon or Savard straight up - OR one of the late first round picks that we'll have in this upcoming draft. As for a future comparison, I think his upside would be around Ruslan Fedotenko. I don't think he's a top line player, but he could still develop into a middle-6 two-way sort of banging forward that chips in scoring occasionally.

I'm not a fan of getting guys just because they played with someone else in another league or in junior. While it does work out sometimes, I think people weigh too much into it. Great players will be great whether they're with their old pals or not. The two definitely had chemistry in Portland, but I don't see the point in over-paying for the guy just to re-unite them. Then you have to ask yourself if you try to get Brad Ross, you know, because it "makes sense".
Thanks!

When you say "not off the charts, but not bad either", are we talking right square in the middle? Are we talking adequate? Are we talking "marginally better than Rico Fata"?

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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Well then he's an upgrade.

I'm not saying who he will become. I am stating that Snow isn't going to take a lowball offer on the back of his rookie season. Any expectation of that is downright silly.

We may not think it is a lowball offer, but at this point it is to the GM that drafted him and certainly to their fanbase. Let us go vulture somewhere else shall we? If we really thought he was going to end up as a Brule, we wouldn't be offering Savard would we?
Oh, I know. My point is that, if Niederreiter had spent last year outside the NHL and was being shopped right now, his value would be a lot higher.

I don't see him being moved because I'd have to believe that, around the league, a lot of GMs are questioning exactly how a guy with this type of skill produced so little last year. I think there would be an inherent mismatch between what anyone will offer (at max) and what the Islanders would ever consider (at minimum), and the two won't ever be close to meeting.

Then again, I'm also the same guy who said during June that I'd have offered pick #45 to Vancouver for Luongo, and nothing more.

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01-23-2013, 10:48 AM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
WHL expert?

Nino and Ryan fed off of each other in Portland. There's no other way to put it - Ryan is a smooth set-up guy, physical, with good hands. Nino is an up-and down player with a wicked shot ... also physical. I do see the concerns with his skating, but it isn't bad enough that it will cost you goals. His hockey IQ isn't off the charts, but it isn't bad either. I was a little bit surprised to see him go 5th overall - I thought he was a 'tweener top-10 pick personally, though I also had Ryan Johansen listed somewhere around 8. What was interesting was that, as his draft season wore on, while Ryan and Brad Ross seemed to ramp up and get better, Nino seemed to taper off and become less effective. The following year he was - good - not nearly great. Last year is a year he will have to forget if he's going to put a decent career together.

I mentioned on the other thread that I think he's worth an Erixon or Savard straight up - OR one of the late first round picks that we'll have in this upcoming draft. As for a future comparison, I think his upside would be around Ruslan Fedotenko. I don't think he's a top line player, but he could still develop into a middle-6 two-way sort of banging forward that chips in scoring occasionally.

I'm not a fan of getting guys just because they played with someone else in another league or in junior. While it does work out sometimes, I think people weigh too much into it. Great players will be great whether they're with their old pals or not. The two definitely had chemistry in Portland, but I don't see the point in over-paying for the guy just to re-unite them. Then you have to ask yourself if you try to get Brad Ross, you know, because it "makes sense".
I think we saw some chemistry between Johansen and Atkinson Saturday night. Not just the quick shuffle pass that broke Cam in for the first goal, but other plays, like the quick return back hand pass in the 3rd, at center ice that almost caught Detroit off guard springing Atikinson in on goal a second time. Johansen passes to space, anticipating his linemates break to the goal. Thats great if you have a guy with speed and puck hunger. Atkinson could be that guy, he's quicker than I remember from last season and the puck hunger and scoring instinct are obviously there.

I hope we see those together tonight. Maybe with Prospal.

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01-23-2013, 12:25 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I think we saw some chemistry between Johansen and Atkinson Saturday night. Not just the quick shuffle pass that broke Cam in for the first goal, but other plays, like the quick return back hand pass in the 3rd, at center ice that almost caught Detroit off guard springing Atikinson in on goal a second time. Johansen passes to space, anticipating his linemates break to the goal. Thats great if you have a guy with speed and puck hunger. Atkinson could be that guy, he's quicker than I remember from last season and the puck hunger and scoring instinct are obviously there.

I hope we see those together tonight. Maybe with Prospal.
I agree. I would be playing Atkinson on the 2nd or 3rd line.

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01-23-2013, 01:08 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
I agree. I would be playing Atkinson on the 2nd or 3rd line.
So what would be your top two lines?

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Old
01-23-2013, 01:46 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
So what would be your top two lines?
Umberger-Brassard-Foligno
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Dorsett
Prospal-Johansen-Atkinson
Calvert-Letestu-Gillies

Top 3 lines being pretty much equal imo.

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01-23-2013, 01:49 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Umberger-Brassard-Foligno
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Dorsett
Prospal-Johansen-Atkinson
Calvert-Letestu-Gillies

Top 3 lines being pretty much equal imo.
Ehhhhh I think if we change anything up it doesn't set a good precedent to keep the top underperforming forwards on the top line. What kind of message is that to the rest of the team working their butts off?

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01-23-2013, 01:56 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
Ehhhhh I think if we change anything up it doesn't set a good precedent to keep the top underperforming forwards on the top line. What kind of message is that to the rest of the team working their butts off?
I agree with this, Umberger flat out is terrible, looks slow and out of shape, and in no way should be on the top line. He should be on our 4th line, or possibly scratched until he is in shape, as I cant imagine he is better than Letestu as this point.

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01-23-2013, 04:35 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
Ehhhhh I think if we change anything up it doesn't set a good precedent to keep the top underperforming forwards on the top line. What kind of message is that to the rest of the team working their butts off?
I'd like to take this time to point out that "hard work and effort" and "results" do not necessarily always have a causal correlation.

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01-23-2013, 04:52 PM
  #337
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So what do you do with players that neither work hard nor perform?

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Old
01-23-2013, 05:02 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
So what would be your top two lines?
Not sure. I don't know who I would really have on the 1st or 4th lines. The 2nd and 3rd lines are our best, IMO, and I would try to make them as good as possible.


Umberger-Brassard-?
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Atkinson/Prospal
Foligno-Johansen-Atkinson/Prospal
3 of Calvert/Letestu/MacKenzie/Dorsett/Boll

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Old
01-23-2013, 09:16 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Umberger-Brassard-Foligno
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Dorsett
Prospal-Johansen-Atkinson
Calvert-Letestu-Gillies

Top 3 lines being pretty much equal imo.
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Atkinson
Umberger-Johansen-Foligno
Prospal-Brassard-Calvert

Do this and the Jackets will score some goals....

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Old
01-23-2013, 09:48 PM
  #340
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Foligno - Anisimov/Brassard - Brassard/Anisimov
Prospal - Johansen - Atkinson
Umberger - Dubinsky - Dorsett
Calvert - Letestu - Boll

Just cuz I want to see Johansen with Atkinson (like him with Prospal already) and don't want to see the non-producers in the top-6 right now.

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01-23-2013, 10:00 PM
  #341
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When you say "not off the charts, but not bad either", are we talking right square in the middle? Are we talking adequate? Are we talking "marginally better than Rico Fata"?


He could very well turn out like Rico Fata. But, the same can be said for basically any prospect ever drafted - maybe not Rico Fata, but anybody can become a major bust.

Drafting prospects is similar to the arduous task of getting pregnant when you're trying. If you aren't really trying, it could happen by mistake when you least expect it (Grant Clitsome/Derek MacKenzie); if you're trying too hard, you may never develop a prospect (countless other Jacket picks). Sometimes, you have a complete miscarriage (Jeff Carter trade).

Really, the miracle of developing draft picks is quite like the miracle of birth. It's all about luck and timing.

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01-23-2013, 10:57 PM
  #342
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I'd like to take this time to point out that "hard work and effort" and "results" do not necessarily always have a causal correlation.
Yeah I've been wanting Dorse off the top 9 and Boll out since before the season and the " notoriously shows up when he wants to" JAM up here, but when you don't work hard or produce points as mentioned then I'm not sure why you're earning ice time over those who do at least one of those.

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01-24-2013, 05:34 AM
  #343
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I don't know why everyone is so hard on Boll lately. The line with Boll and Dmac is one of my favorites and one of the only ones actually capable of keeping the puck in the offensive zone. I've always been a Boll critic, but he looks closer to what he did his rookie year, imo. Our bigger problems are guys like Umberger.

Johan has looked good, imo. Looked better in the game against Detroit, and got absolutely robbed by Smith. Won't be too long until he starts potting some.

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01-27-2013, 09:37 AM
  #344
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I've been pretty critical of Joey in the past, but if last night was a glimpse into his future, I am excited. He used his big body effectively and showed the skill we've been hearing about against the big boys. Playing in the AHL is a different game, and in the past he's struggled against NHL caliber players. Last night, for the first time IMO, he looked like he belongs.

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01-27-2013, 11:49 AM
  #345
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The coaches really need to up his ice time, RyJo is playing well in all three zones and has been our most effective player on the dot. He needs needs to be rewarded for being the best player on the ice, to have guys like Brassard and Umberger getting more ice time than he does is not sending the right message to him or the other players on the team on top of giving us less of a chance to win hockey games.

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01-27-2013, 11:58 AM
  #346
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Originally Posted by alphafox View Post
The coaches really need to up his ice time, RyJo is playing well in all three zones and has been our most effective player on the dot. He needs needs to be rewarded for being the best player on the ice, to have guys like Brassard and Umberger getting more ice time than he does is not sending the right message to him or the other players on the team on top of giving us less of a chance to win hockey games.
I think that's what is called development. Forcing guys like Jake and Brass to top minutes right out of the chute hasn't panned out too well for us in the past, has it?

Let Joey have success and keep growing before we move him. I'd like to see him gain confidence with a string of good/great games before we feed him to the wolves. It's not like CBJ are cup contenders this year. Let's actually develop Joey, eh?

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01-27-2013, 12:02 PM
  #347
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But he really needs to develop, so leave him in SPR, he really needs that time to play.

What .. ? he's what ... ?

Oh...

... never mind.


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01-27-2013, 12:15 PM
  #348
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But he really needs to develop, so leave him in SPR, he really needs that time to play.

What .. ? he's what ... ?

Oh...

... never mind.

That's one of your more sensible posts

A positive fan with a sharp tongue. Well played.

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01-27-2013, 12:17 PM
  #349
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But he really needs to develop, so leave him in SPR, he really needs that time to play.

What .. ? he's what ... ?

Oh...

... never mind.

a) its only been 5 games
b) so far he's proving me wrong...hope he keeps it up

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01-27-2013, 12:54 PM
  #350
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The coaches really need to up his ice time, RyJo is playing well in all three zones and has been our most effective player on the dot. He needs needs to be rewarded for being the best player on the ice, to have guys like Brassard and Umberger getting more ice time than he does is not sending the right message to him or the other players on the team on top of giving us less of a chance to win hockey games.
I agree 100%.

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