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Florida Panthers Vs. Montreal Canadiens 1/22/13

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:15 AM
  #476
RainingRats
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Originally Posted by Steel Panther View Post
How did Shore look?
He was skating well. That's about it. Hard to tell. He didn't have the puck much and as you're aware, the team as whole didn't do much. I'd like to see him center Mueller and Hubs.

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01-23-2013, 10:20 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
He was skating well. That's about it. Hard to tell. He didn't have the puck much and as you're aware, the team as whole didn't do much. I'd like to see him center Mueller and Hubs.
He had a real nice scoring chance too.

-ghoste

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:25 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
but thats EXACTLY what he was last season, and that's exactly my point. he was at home, unemployed and waiting for a phone call. we had a bunch of injuries and he was a great addition in a bottom-6 role.

there's better players who are unemployed right now than jarred smithson, and that's exactly my point. hell, marco sturm is a better player, a better PKer. the only thing smithson has on him (or anyone practically) is faceoffs)




campbell is another example of a great fourth liner, too. that's the type of grit we need down there, not smithson.



you know that we differ on enforcers. i hate parros, he sucks, doesn't fight often and has made a career off his stupid porn mustache.

brandon prust and chris neil (although i absolutely HATE Neil, i'd probably adore him if he were a Cat) are exactly the type of fighters i'd like on my team. they may not be true heavy's but still get the job done (offer protection) and can play the game and contribute. i love prust, not so sure i would have given him the contract montreal did though. pretty pricey.
Think you're being a bit too hard on the checking line, and they out worked Ottawa a few times, leading to two icing calls that the top line couldn't convert on.

Neal and Prust are the kinda guys you'd like as an enforcers, but they don't come around often, especially Neal. He's like McCarty. Big reason why I liked having Barch, but he can't handle guys like Neal.
Parros fights often enough and will go with guys like Barch and Jansen, but he's big and most shy away from him. Would've been nice to have gotten Asham as well.
Parros wants to play and contribute, he looked kids lost to me like he's unsure what to do. Needs to start grinding and just play his game, not look for nice plays.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:27 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I just have one thing to say:

3 games in 4 nights, right? 2nd game in 2? 0 Exhibition games?


You team basically was screwed by the schedule, while the Habs were fresh and willing to prove themselves after a terrible display last saturday. And the Habs were deliberately twisting that knife, playing a very physical game against you to tire you even more out.

No wonder the 5-minute powerplay was underwhelming; your players were simply at the end of their battery.

When the Panthers started the 2nd, they definetly had some gas in the tank and it showed. You definetly aren't a team as bad as it showed last night.
Couldn't watch last night and can't comment, but appreciate the insight and sentiments, thank you.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:27 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
Yeah, funny the last two games our guys get jumped. Thing with Parros is that he's a 'super' heavyweight and kinda needs guys like Orr & Bollig to fight. I don't expect him to fight guys like White or Smith. Guds is more the match for guys like them.

-ghoste
This is why carrying a fighter is retarded. A "super heavyweight" needs another "super heavyweight" to fight? Oh ok, then please tell me how that effects the actual game of hockey that's being played?
If the fighter can't beat the living crap out of any guy that deserves it, say after a dirty hit, then what the purpose of having a fighter?


Nothing against you ghoste btw.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:33 AM
  #481
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The problem right now isn't the 3rd and 4th lines.

Its the first and second. They are playing too soft and too cute with the puck and terrible defensively.

Everything is bad right now, but it all starts with puck retrieval and then breaking out. If those are sloppy, you get turnovers. You can't even worry about how ****** we are in the offensive zone or turning it over in the neutral zone until you fix those two things.

Obviously the team is not as bad as the last two games.They also aren't as good as period 1 against Carolina.

Missing Goc and Bergenheim really hurt this team. Goc(best faceoff man) led the team in defensive zone starts yet produced a lot of shots on goal, which meant his line was responsible for zone changes. Bergenheim plays a simple physical game, chips the puck in retrieves. He is also a net presence.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:54 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Steel Panther View Post
This is why carrying a fighter is retarded. A "super heavyweight" needs another "super heavyweight" to fight? Oh ok, then please tell me how that effects the actual game of hockey that's being played?
If the fighter can't beat the living crap out of any guy that deserves it, say after a dirty hit, then what the purpose of having a fighter?


Nothing against you ghoste btw.
Gudbranson, Skille, Upshall, nor even Barch can just go blast a guy after dirty hits, you get an instigator and possible game for that. Fighting is all about smarts, and guys like Parros will deter some guys from dirty/pesty play, but there are guys like White that don't care and won't own up.

Parros can go with guys that aren't super heavies, he really doesn't do terribly well against some of the better heavies, but that allows him to get into it with some of the smaller guys. I expect he and Lucic to go, tbh, but I'd never expect that out of SmacIntyre. I think Parros can keep certain players in check, more than Barch, Glass, etc., but not everyone is deterred.

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Old
01-23-2013, 10:55 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Haj View Post
The problem right now isn't the 3rd and 4th lines.

Its the first and second. They are playing too soft and too cute with the puck and terrible defensively.

Everything is bad right now, but it all starts with puck retrieval and then breaking out. If those are sloppy, you get turnovers. You can't even worry about how ****** we are in the offensive zone or turning it over in the neutral zone until you fix those two things.

Obviously the team is not as bad as the last two games.They also aren't as good as period 1 against Carolina.

Missing Goc and Bergenheim really hurt this team. Goc(best faceoff man) led the team in defensive zone starts yet produced a lot of shots on goal, which meant his line was responsible for zone changes. Bergenheim plays a simple physical game, chips the puck in retrieves. He is also a net presence.
Good post, agreed.

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:26 AM
  #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haj View Post
The problem right now isn't the 3rd and 4th lines.

Its the first and second. They are playing too soft and too cute with the puck and terrible defensively.

Everything is bad right now, but it all starts with puck retrieval and then breaking out. If those are sloppy, you get turnovers. You can't even worry about how ****** we are in the offensive zone or turning it over in the neutral zone until you fix those two things.

Obviously the team is not as bad as the last two games.They also aren't as good as period 1 against Carolina.

Missing Goc and Bergenheim really hurt this team. Goc(best faceoff man) led the team in defensive zone starts yet produced a lot of shots on goal, which meant his line was responsible for zone changes. Bergenheim plays a simple physical game, chips the puck in retrieves. He is also a net presence.
I posted this earlier ...just like last year Goc is only noticed when Hes NOT there. Such an important faceoff and stabalizing factor.

Three games is too early too panic. When we lose home games, when we give up leads etc, these are signs to panic. Yesterday was what i call a wolf game...where the home team on rest is playing a team on their 2nd of back to back. Great games to bet on Vegas.

Not making excuses, just not panicing....yet.

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:58 AM
  #485
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I really expected things to rebound last night after the bad loss in Ottawa, so it was a pretty disappointing effort. It starts with another poor 1st period where we let up way too many shots. Sure, there was plenty of time to come back, especially down 2-1 at one point, but a good start to the game would have helped momentum for the rest of the game tremendously.

Otherwise, just like in the Ottawa game, the top two lines are not gelling together at all and it really is sad that guys like Skille and Matthias have been the best forwards on the ice. Weiss I thought looked a bit better in this game, but still just looks off. Whether it's due to sickness or whatever, hopefully that changes.

We're really being shown how much Goc, Bergy, Guds, and Versteeg are needed. Especially, Goc as we seemed to keep losing key faceoffs. Guds too to help match the physical play. Also, we were getting physically outmatched and you could definitely notice it midway through the game with the fatigue factor setting in, playing 3 games in 4 nights. I saw Parros tried to get something going towards the end of the game with Moen, but why didn't this happen earlier after Montreal's 3rd goal?

The main problem I see is that the Panthers just can't set up once they get into the opposition's zone. Over the last two games, typically it's one man into the zone when nobody is close enough to follow and either the puck gets taken away or the man has to dump it into the corner to only go back the other way. The shots we seem to be getting are when we actually get something set up and get four or five shots in a row.

Also, you cannot expect to win going 1 for 8 on the PP with a 5-minute PP that had 1:36 of a 5 on 3. That was absolutely pathetic.

I'll be honest. I have almost no hope of beating Ottawa at home tomorrow night with their record against us. I don't know if most of the issues are a mental problem or what. Even though it's far from time to hit the panic button, in a shortened season, you can't get yourself into a deep hole like they're on the verge of doing. It's even tougher to come back.

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Old
01-23-2013, 01:39 PM
  #486
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Is it time to tank for MacKinnon?

But seriously, rough start road-games. Both Silfverberg and Galchenyuk score their first NHL goals vs us, not really shocking. We need to score some goals!

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Old
01-23-2013, 01:51 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
apparently. proof is in the pudding.

dineen (or any NHL coach) has a much better grasp of their locker rooms than any fan ever would. criticizing their choice of captaincy is silly.
so, one game is proof? did we fall apart in the 16 games he missed last year? or is it different now that he has the C on his chest?

i'm being a bit of an ass because i don't buy it. first of all, teams just don't fold like a cheap tent when their captain is out. also, we know there were other viable candidates. GR reported that many players expected weiss to be named C.

there are times i've made the same argument about criticizing coaches (especially on technical issues) but here, i think he's vulnerable.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:17 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
i agree with your premise that, in a vacuum, faceoffs are more important than the energy/momentum of scoring chances if they are not finished.

that being said, the overall point you're trying to make is completely flawed because these two players are not in a vacuum. skille can contribute offensively, smithson cannot.

skille's statistics last year (on pace) were more than smithson had in any season, and he's clearly improving as a player while smithson is clearly on the decline. he had six points last year (that's abysmal).

if smithson could contribute the points he did in 07-08 or the goals he did in 09-10, then you might have some type of argument here. but if you think this guy has the ability to score 10 goals or 20 points after watching him during his tenure as a panther, we're clearly watching a different player.

this guy has absolutely nothing to offer in the offensive zone. and looking at his stats, he's also never been a + player in his career after 05-06.....playing on pretty good predators teams too. i don't put much stock into the +/- stat, but in this case, i do, as his numbers in this category are extremely consistent. the fact that he's a -4 through -9 in his last 6 seasons straight is pretty telling. lets say you're the best defensive player in the history of the NHL and only allow 10 goals scored while you're on the ice. but you're so terrible offensively that you score 0. you're still a -10, despite being a wizard on D, you're causing more harm than overall good to your team.

i know your're a big baseball fan too (i lurk on marlinsbaseball.com) - but hockey isn't a sport like baseball where you have "specialists" like LOOGY's that can contribute in only one area. having a good faceoff guy is great, as are enforcers, if they can play and contribute in all three zones. Smithson doesn't. Neither does Parros. and because of it, our fourth line is a complete black whole, regardless of the unfortunate soul that is paired with those two. that's a PROBLEM.

now, on the list of problems this team has right now, jarred smithson being terrible is probably in the 20's or 30's of things that need to be fixed, but my point is he's still a problem. he's waiver wire fodder just like santorelli.

thanks, santos
I think it's just a difference of opinion, really.

I understand your point of view, but I don't think Smithson has a "specialized role;" I think he's just a 4th liner and if you compare him to most 4th liners in the NHL, it just is what it is.

The +/- stat sucks, especially for players like Smithson. To begin with, he's starting his shifts in the defensive zone most of the time. Secondly, it's not a one-on-one game. He's a career 4th liner so he gets to play alongside guys like Parros, who are in the NHL solely because of a "specialized role."

Like, I'm not comparing the two players AT ALL...but just to prove the +/- point, when Marcel Goc was in San Jose (also a good team) as a 4th liner, he posted a - every year. I think we'd all agree that Goc is a good player though.

This is why there are advanced stats in every sport, hockey included. You can't just look at +/- without context.

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Old
01-23-2013, 06:43 PM
  #489
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I think tomorrow is a big early season test. With a day of rest and a team you just saw, one would expect a more livelier effort. We are a much better home team. Need to take advantage of these 24 home games this year.

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Old
01-23-2013, 07:10 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Gudbranson, Skille, Upshall, nor even Barch can just go blast a guy after dirty hits, you get an instigator and possible game for that. Fighting is all about smarts, and guys like Parros will deter some guys from dirty/pesty play, but there are guys like White that don't care and won't own up.

Parros can go with guys that aren't super heavies, he really doesn't do terribly well against some of the better heavies, but that allows him to get into it with some of the smaller guys. I expect he and Lucic to go, tbh, but I'd never expect that out of SmacIntyre. I think Parros can keep certain players in check, more than Barch, Glass, etc., but not everyone is deterred.
problem is parros doesn't seem to be playing very physical and doesn't seem to add energy at all. he seems slow and really isn't doing anything i can see to deter the physical play of other teams. barch would give you multiple big hits, he seemed a lot faster and created energy. i'd really like to see parros deliver some bone crushing hits and add some energy!!! i thought he was an upgrade, but so far he's been a down grade imo. btw, i love hordichuck. wish we kept him. he did all the things i wanted and wasn't afraid to go with anyone and forced the issue if needed!

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01-23-2013, 07:53 PM
  #491
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problem is parros doesn't seem to be playing very physical and doesn't seem to add energy at all. he seems slow and really isn't doing anything i can see to deter the physical play of other teams. barch would give you multiple big hits, he seemed a lot faster and created energy. i'd really like to see parros deliver some bone crushing hits and add some energy!!! i thought he was an upgrade, but so far he's been a down grade imo. btw, i love hordichuck. wish we kept him. he did all the things i wanted and wasn't afraid to go with anyone and forced the issue if needed!
I had a hard time believing he didn't go after Gorges or when White went at Flash. You have to set a tone for your team in your limited opportunities. Doesn't matter if the game is close or out of hand.

That message needs to be delivered, especially to a lack-luster road team.

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01-23-2013, 09:00 PM
  #492
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Goc is being conditioned/skated daily with Guds. I believe Goc will return in a week or so.

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Old
01-23-2013, 09:12 PM
  #493
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Never thought I would say this.... but, the Leafs looks A LOT better than the Panthers did yesterday.

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Old
01-23-2013, 09:18 PM
  #494
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Never thought I would say this.... but, the Leafs looks A LOT better than the Panthers did yesterday.
Leafs are currently schooling the Pens.

They've officially gotten better than us. By the looks of their game.

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