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P.K. Subban Thread - 5.0 - The "Doughty Money Vs. Lowball Bridge" Edition

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Old
01-23-2013, 11:50 AM
  #226
Dr Gonzo
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
You are right. He probably also made up the quote of one player saying it's quiet with him gone. And Martin was wrong to bench him 4 games. Subban can do no wrong. He's not flamboyant. He's not annoying at all, hes a role model. I also think that the players that have stepped up in the past to voice some concerns about PK's attitude are all lying and picking on him for no reason. Also, the 3-4 incidents where he traded blows at practice with his teamates is probably not because he's a prima dona or annoying. It's the other guys that are jealous of him because he's so good.
Oooooooh, a rookie got benched?

No freaking way!!

He pushed Plekanec, big deal, he's far from the first person to get into a tussle at practice (Remember Saku Koivu??)

You are grasping at straws, and using Bertrand as a "source" is indicative of how much you are willing to bend to get your point across. There is no evidence of him being a prima donna, that's conjecture and assumptions, which is why you are being called out for inventing things.

Let me guess, you believed Gill when he trolled the easily drama-filed media?

I bet you were really upset when PK left a towel on the ground that one time.

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01-23-2013, 11:50 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Bertrand makes little sense in that article. It shows he's a baseball guy and doesn't know what he's talking about. This is what he considers to be a prima donna?

P.K., lui, est malheureusement passé à autre chose. Son carnet mondain le tient très occupé. Il est flamboyant quand il se présente à des événements sportifs. Il assiste à des spectacles avec ses chums. Il explique la météo au petit écran. Il signe des contrats de publicité. Bref, il s'occupe de lui d'abord.


So, he is flamboyant, he goes to concerts with his friends, he gets paid to do commercials and *gasp* he did the weather on CTV!



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Such a prima donna!

I said real examples, not some confused rant by an old baseball reporter.

Baseball guy? what the helle are you talking about?

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01-23-2013, 11:51 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
You are right. He probably also made up the quote of one player saying it's quiet with him gone. And Martin was wrong to bench him 4 games. Subban can do no wrong. He's not flamboyant. He's not annoying at all, hes a role model. I also think that the players that have stepped up in the past to voice some concerns about PK's attitude are all lying and picking on him for no reason. Also, the 3-4 incidents where he traded blows at practice with his teamates is probably not because he's a prima dona or annoying. It's the other guys that are jealous of him because he's so good.
I'm pretty sure he did.

Of course it's quiet without him, he's that type of guy, doesn't mean everyone hates him and that he's a cancer. Gill seemed to like the guy a lot and he was a big leader on the team.

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01-23-2013, 11:53 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Oooooooh, a rookie got benched?

No freaking way!!

He pushed Plekanec, big deal, he's far from the first person to get into a tussle at practice (Remember Saku Koivu??)

You are grasping at straws, and using Bertrand as a "source" is indicative of how much you are willing to bend to get your point across. There is no evidence of him being a prima donna, that's conjecture and assumptions, which is why you are being called out for inventing things.

Let me guess, you believed Gill when he trolled the easily drama-filed media?

I bet you were really upset when PK left a towel on the ground that one time.
I did not invent anything. It's been reported by others. Don't shoot the messager.

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01-23-2013, 11:53 AM
  #230
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PK is not going to get a long term contract, Bergevin CANNOT cave in on that... So maybe.... maybe PK does wants out of MTL.... this is becoming ridiculus....

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01-23-2013, 11:53 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
Baseball guy? what the helle are you talking about?
I'm telling you, he's better suited for covering the Expos.

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01-23-2013, 11:54 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
I did not invent anything. It's been reported by others. Don't shoot the messager.
You called PK the prima donna. I asked you for examples. You gave me that crummy conjecture filled article that provides no real examples.

So if that's your reasoning behind calling him a prima donna, that's fair enough, but it's way too easy to rip apart as baseless and illogical.

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01-23-2013, 11:58 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
Oooooooh, a rookie got benched?

No freaking way!!

He pushed Plekanec, big deal, he's far from the first person to get into a tussle at practice (Remember Saku Koivu??)

You are grasping at straws, and using Bertrand as a "source" is indicative of how much you are willing to bend to get your point across. There is no evidence of him being a prima donna, that's conjecture and assumptions, which is why you are being called out for inventing things.

Let me guess, you believed Gill when he trolled the easily drama-filed media?

I bet you were really upset when PK left a towel on the ground that one time.
in the past, on the ice, PK got into conflicts with Plekanec and others, in the room there was comment about PK by the likes of Gill, Cole, Gionta, Gorges... If you believe that PK is absolutely like by everyone in the room and that nobody feels he's a distraction or some kind of prima donna... you are naive....

does it mean that the guy should not be sign? NO, does it mean that it is not as easy as 1-2-3 to come to an agreement with the guy, not just personnaly, but with everything the situations involve with the Habs, i'm guessing yes

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01-23-2013, 11:58 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
I did not invent anything. It's been reported by others. Don't shoot the messager.
So what you're saying is that you didn't use that information to form your own opinion on the matter?

Because that sounds like exactly what you did. Don't blame other people for your lack of capacity for critical thought or examination of evidence.

Take some ownership for the ****** things you say.

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01-23-2013, 12:00 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
in the past, on the ice, PK got into conflicts with Plekanec and others, in the room there was comment about PK by the likes of Gill, Cole, Gionta, Gorges... If you believe that PK is absolutely like by everyone in the room and that nobody feels he's a distraction or some kind of prima donna... you are naive....

does it mean that the guy should not be sign? NO, does it mean that it is not as easy as 1-2-3 to come to an agreement with the guy, not just personnaly, but with everything the situations involve with the Habs, i'm guessing yes

He got into a shoving match with Plekanec. Big deal. The Habs have had more than our fair share of shoving matches in practice. It's not new to hockey, and it will continue to happen with various players.

Gill trolled the media with the towel comment (and others fell for it, obviously).

I don't remember Cole or Gionta commenting negatively about him last year, perhaps a refresher is in order.

Where they asked about PK by the same media fishing for drama, or did they go out of their way to comment negatively about him? Anyways, let's wait for you to provide the links (or sources) and we can go from there.

No one is saying he's the team honey bunny, but saying he is a prima donna because he went to a concert with friends, and shoved one of his teammates (like hundreds of players have before) is incredibly stupid. Incredibly.


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01-23-2013, 12:01 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
Yet he wants the big long-term contract....so PK thinks he's there to some degree. I thing this fuels the hate.
Well the team itself has created this 'misconception' by using him as their #1 dman...

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01-23-2013, 12:02 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
P.K., lui, est malheureusement passé à autre chose. Son carnet mondain le tient très occupé. Il est flamboyant quand il se présente à des événements sportifs. Il assiste à des spectacles avec ses chums. Il explique la météo au petit écran. Il signe des contrats de publicité. Bref, il s'occupe de lui d'abord.
Bertrand Raymond... what a ****ing tard...

Hmmm, let me see... What would I do if I had as much time off as PK for the same reasons... Hmmm I wouldn't take that time to see friends and family, that would be a disgrace... I wouldn't use that time to have fun, that wouldn't be very nice to the rest of the world now would it? And I most certainly wouldn't sign any endorsement contracts that would guarantee revenue... No way, that's just selfish.

Raymond is an idiot, he's a "ti-joe connaissant" that doesn't know **** and ALWAYS speaks in hyperbole.

The whole PK contract thing annoys me to no end, but wtf he's human and he has a ****ing life.

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01-23-2013, 12:08 PM
  #238
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Has the 2.75 M$ offer reported by some no-name on twitter been confirmed by any more reputable source such as McKenzie?

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01-23-2013, 12:12 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
B. Raymond is not my favorite guy but you can read this if you like. I think he makes some valid points the fanboys here will of course discredit. Truth is PK is annoying and the current situation could have been avoided in my opinion. He dug himself a hole so now he can just lay in it. No matter how much he thinks he's worth there's no reason for not playing, especially after a lockout.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/355163.html
All this tells me is that the hockey community, doesn't understand or appreciate players who have personalities and are different from the usual boring hockey player who just recycles the same clichés all the time because they aren't eloquent enough to use captivating vocabulary.

How come this article doesn't mention all the charity work PK continues to be involved in?

NO ONE has any evidence of any off-ice issues for PK Subban...the only thing PK Subban is guilty of is being is a bit too loquacious in a sport where individualism and personality is frowned upon.

I don't know how many times i've read that PK Subban is annoying because he brings "NBA type of attitude" to the NHL.

a damn shame really..

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01-23-2013, 12:14 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by onebighockeyfan View Post
B. Raymond is not my favorite guy but you can read this if you like. I think he makes some valid points the fanboys here will of course discredit. Truth is PK is annoying and the current situation could have been avoided in my opinion. He dug himself a hole so now he can just lay in it. No matter how much he thinks he's worth there's no reason for not playing, especially after a lockout.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/355163.html
"On ignore ce que le Canadien lui offre comme contrat. On ne peut que spéculer là-dessus. Il s'agit probablement d'une entente de trois ans à un salaire avoisinant les trois millions, peut-être un peu plus."

Amazing.

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01-23-2013, 12:19 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
You called PK the prima donna. I asked you for examples. You gave me that crummy conjecture filled article that provides no real examples.

So if that's your reasoning behind calling him a prima donna, that's fair enough, but it's way too easy to rip apart as baseless and illogical.
I posted PK was "looking more like a prima donna"

He's already (with Price) the face of this franchise. The contract drama has put the spotlight on PK. It's like curtain is up and the audience is waiting for his entrance. That's prima donna stuff.

But who ultimately benefits? I want to blame Meehan for this.

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01-23-2013, 12:22 PM
  #242
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I said PK was "looking more like a prima donna."

He's already (with Price) the face of this franchise. The contract drama has put the spotlight him. It's like curtain is up and the audience is waiting for his entrance. That's prima donna stuff.

But who ultimately benefits? I want to blame Meehan for this.
To be honest, it was the poster I was replying to who called him a prima donna (and quoted Bertrand's "article" as proof). This is not the first time this particular poster has gone out of his way to denigrate Subban with no proof. That's why it rustled my jimmies.

However, if he is a prima donna in some fans eyes, for not immediately signing whatever contract was offered, then so be it, but that's not a fair assessment whatsoever.

I wonder if Dallas fans are calling Benn a prima donna right now? (Honest question). I may head to the Stars board to find out.

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01-23-2013, 12:26 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
...

However, if he is a prima donna in some fans eyes, for not immediately signing whatever contract was offered, then so be it, but that's not a fair assessment whatsoever.
Nobody said anything about "immediately signing whatever" I think rather the idea is other NHL players have contracts but PK doesn't yet. Drama..;.

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01-23-2013, 12:26 PM
  #244
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I think you all have VERY short term memory or have never seen Markov play.

pre injury Markov IS better than current PK. If he holds up and it seems after last night that he will, he is STILL better than current PK. Add to that Markov is playing and PK is playing Playstation, it's kind of a no brainer who's more important to the Habs right now.
Amen,
Everyone forgets just how good Markov is. Markov is so important to this team it is ridiculous. I just did a quite calculation and Markov has played 75 game in the past 4 years (including playoffs).

The Habs have a 0.629 winning percentage with him in the lineup (39-23-13) and a 0.500 winning percentage with him out of the lineup (76-76-21).

Now this doesn't factor in the quality of the overall team but I think it is a good starting point for people to hopefully realize how important he is to this team and would be to other teams in trade.

He is basically a poor man's Lidstrom, and I think we can already see the effect on the Wings by not having Lidstrom in the lineup.

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01-23-2013, 12:28 PM
  #245
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"On ignore ce que le Canadien lui offre comme contrat. On ne peut que spéculer là-dessus. Il s'agit probablement d'une entente de trois ans à un salaire avoisinant les trois millions, peut-être un peu plus."

Amazing.
Amazing, indeed. In one sentence, he says that we have no idea what is being offered, that we can only speculate, but yet says it's probably a 3yr/9M contract.



Pretty solid information.

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01-23-2013, 12:29 PM
  #246
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I posted PK was "looking more like a prima donna"

He's already (with Price) the face of this franchise. The contract drama has put the spotlight on PK. It's like curtain is up and the audience is waiting for his entrance. That's prima donna stuff.

But who ultimately benefits? I want to blame Meehan for this.
PK isn't "looking like" anything whatsoever because he isn't discussing his contract negotiations or saying much at all these days. It's the media and fans who are picking at this sore -- inventing motives and scenarios and dollar amounts to fill in the gaps.

Until this is settled, we know nothing.

Taken at face value, PK is looking for the right numbers before signing and joining the Habs. But in the world of media-doublespeak -- "He's a big part of our team" / "Trade him" -- we never really know.

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01-23-2013, 12:30 PM
  #247
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Nobody said anything about "immediately signing whatever" I think rather the idea is other NHL players have contracts but PK doesn't yet. Drama..;.
Lots of posters have said "If he doesn't sign whatever deal is offered trade his diva butt!" or something illogical to that extent.

Drama, sure, one of our best players is unsigned, but we don't need to start eating our young just yet.

As for other players signing, and not PK, you could say that the blame falls on two people (or sides). It takes two to tango. Both PK's side and Bergevin need to make some strides. Kind of like the lockout. However fans are fickle and will pick sides.

The truth is both sides probably need to meet somewhere in the middle. But blaming one side or the other is short sighted.

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01-23-2013, 12:32 PM
  #248
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I think you all have VERY short term memory or have never seen Markov play.

pre injury Markov IS better than current PK. If he holds up and it seems after last night that he will, he is STILL better than current PK. Add to that Markov is playing and PK is playing Playstation, it's kind of a no brainer who's more important to the Habs right now.
Well by that logic I guess Ryan White is more important to the Habs to because he's playing and... what? He's suspended for a game? Uh, well... nevermind.

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I did say I think he has as much if not more skill than Markov. I think there is a huge difference between character assassination and pointing out what needs refinement in his game. I love the kid. I just think Markov gave him a 101 on how to be a #1 defenseman last night. And I agree he's 23 years old and he's not there yet. Pretty much exactly my point. I know you didn't mean to target my post specifically though and I wholeheartedly agree with you. There is positive criticism then there is outright bashing.

Just too bad that on these boards sometimes the second you bring up a point about a player you're labeled a hater. The polarization on here is crazy sometimes.
Markov had a great game last night but it was against a Panthers team that had played 3 games in 4 nights. Not really much of a test.

It's great that he played well but this is the first time since coming back that we've seen much from him. Let's see how he does for the rest of the year before giving him the Norris.
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First of all, comparing Subban to Markov is totally ridiculous. They have two completely different physical styles and skill sets. Let's just be happy we can enjoy both (hopefully) at the same time for a little while longer.

Second thing: trading Subban out of frustration is the worst move the Habs could make. It's all about getting, paying and keeping the best assets. Subban is an asset we need to keep. If we trade him because of yet another case of franchise ADHD, we may as well start kicking ourselves now.

That said, we have no idea how far apart the two sides are and what agendas are actually in play. Despite all his sound-bites to the contrary, it is possible PK secretly wants out.
Please don't say this. If PK is gone we're really messed up for the future. THAT would be the darkest day...

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01-23-2013, 12:32 PM
  #249
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Amen,
Everyone forgets just how good Markov is. Markov is so important to this team it is ridiculous. I just did a quite calculation and Markov has played 75 game in the past 4 years (including playoffs).

The Habs have a 0.629 winning percentage with him in the lineup (39-23-13) and a 0.500 winning percentage with him out of the lineup (76-76-21).

Now this doesn't factor in the quality of the overall team but I think it is a good starting point for people to hopefully realize how important he is to this team and would be to other teams in trade.

He is basically a poor man's Lidstrom, and I think we can already see the effect on the Wings by not having Lidstrom in the lineup.
Yep, he's as important to the Habs as Lidstrom was to the Wings.

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01-23-2013, 12:33 PM
  #250
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Nevermind just better than PK, he showed last night why he was arguably top 5 in the league before injuries. His anticipation defensively is also really incredible.

This doesn't Subban is any less valuable. He brings a whole different dimension to this team. Really hoping we're not lowballing him. Let's get him signed and let's get on with the season!
Totally agreed.Iit's like by saying how good Markov is, some people take it as an insult to PK. It's not. I'd love to see them both in the lineup at their peak ability. That would be AWESOME!

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