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Mikko Koivu as captain

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01-23-2013, 07:53 AM
  #26
roon
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Originally Posted by hirawl View Post
If you score 50 goals per season and everyone follows your lead, your team is going to score +1000 goals a season.
Scoring 50 goals per year is not something that can be accomplished simply by following someones lead. If that were the case the TB lightning would be an offensive powerhouse.

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01-23-2013, 07:57 AM
  #27
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Scoring 50 goals per year is not something that can be accomplished simply by following someones lead. If that were the case the TB lightning would be an offensive powerhouse.


?

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01-23-2013, 09:34 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by hirawl View Post
If you score 50 goals per season and everyone follows your lead, your team is going to score +1000 goals a season.


On the topic at hand, there is only one Kaptain!

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01-23-2013, 09:52 AM
  #29
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I don't think it should be set in stone...

I'd say I agree with Geo, I am not overly enamored with his leadership. Yet, I'm not in awe of his play. I think its been romanticized here. I was hoping Yeo would evaluate it, figure out he's an ok leader at best and then make him compete for it this season.

The worst thing a leader can be is evasive and disconnected in times of struggle, which he has been. And perhaps worst been in denial of his / and his team's poor play. Which has also been the case.

Parise has never shown me that, nor has Suter. While it would not be feasible to just hand them the "C" right now, I'd seriously consider it if I was Mike Yeo. However we'll see what type of leaders they are over the course of the next few months.

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01-23-2013, 10:03 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
I'd say I agree with Geo, I am not overly enamored with his leadership. Yet, I'm not in awe of his play. I think its been romanticized here. I was hoping Yeo would evaluate it, figure out he's an ok leader at best and then make him compete for it this season.

The worst thing a leader can be is evasive and disconnected in times of struggle, which he has been. And perhaps worst been in denial of his / and his team's poor play. Which has also been the case.

Parise has never shown me that, nor has Suter. While it would not be feasible to just hand them the "C" right now, I'd seriously consider it if I was Mike Yeo. However we'll see what type of leaders they are over the course of the next few months.
I agree with this somewhat. Koivu hasn't shown me the leadership when things are tough that really makes me think "This is our captain!" Instead, he's usually been pouty and deflective, and when your leader is doing that, it really rubs off on other guys. (Edit* He seems like he has handled stress like I used to...you get angry, evasive, and tend to blame other things. It isn't the right way to go about things.)

Again, only my opinion, but I guess the biggest thing I take away from Koivu being the captain, is that I've never felt he has been a key point in the Wild breaking out of a slump, or "righting the ship." He's just...been there. Perhaps having other veteran leadership-type guys will help out.

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01-23-2013, 10:28 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Dudicles View Post
I agree with this somewhat. Koivu hasn't shown me the leadership when things are tough that really makes me think "This is our captain!" Instead, he's usually been pouty and deflective, and when your leader is doing that, it really rubs off on other guys. (Edit* He seems like he has handled stress like I used to...you get angry, evasive, and tend to blame other things. It isn't the right way to go about things.)

Again, only my opinion, but I guess the biggest thing I take away from Koivu being the captain, is that I've never felt he has been a key point in the Wild breaking out of a slump, or "righting the ship." He's just...been there. Perhaps having other veteran leadership-type guys will help out.
You should check how this team plays without Koivu and with Koivu. The difference is amazing.

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01-23-2013, 10:32 AM
  #32
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Suter seems like he'd be the last guy to ever be captain...he seems to be even more soft spoken than Joe Mauer.

Maybe that's different in the locker room but it's hard to see.

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01-23-2013, 11:00 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
You should check how this team plays without Koivu and with Koivu. The difference is amazing.
This

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01-23-2013, 11:03 AM
  #34
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You should check how this team plays without Koivu and with Koivu. The difference is amazing.
Our record with and without Bouchard is pretty telling as well.

Koivu is also hurt just about every time we're trying to make a playoff push.

Look, Koivu is a good player, and an adequate captain, but not (yet) an exceptional one.

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01-23-2013, 11:13 AM
  #35
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I don't know if it was with the Wild or in the WC, but I heard a story that the Wild / Finland were leading by a goal late in the third but with the opponent having all the momentum. Somebody takes a penalty and Koivu yells to the bench "We're going to kill this PK!" and goes and dominates the next shift.

Don't know if it's true or not, but I think a captain should show such example.

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01-23-2013, 11:36 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallenity View Post
I don't know if it was with the Wild or in the WC, but I heard a story that the Wild / Finland were leading by a goal late in the third but with the opponent having all the momentum. Somebody takes a penalty and Koivu yells to the bench "We're going to kill this PK!" and goes and dominates the next shift.

Don't know if it's true or not, but I think a captain should show such example.
Quote:
Everyone on the Wild bench knew it was a bad call, and Koivu, the Wild's captain, stood up according to Yeo and screamed, "'We're getting this kill,' and you know what? I believed him."
http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/135305703.html

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01-23-2013, 11:39 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
I'd say I agree with Geo, I am not overly enamored with his leadership. Yet, I'm not in awe of his play. I think its been romanticized here. I was hoping Yeo would evaluate it, figure out he's an ok leader at best and then make him compete for it this season.

The worst thing a leader can be is evasive and disconnected in times of struggle, which he has been. And perhaps worst been in denial of his / and his team's poor play. Which has also been the case.

Parise has never shown me that, nor has Suter. While it would not be feasible to just hand them the "C" right now, I'd seriously consider it if I was Mike Yeo. However we'll see what type of leaders they are over the course of the next few months.
I've read you saying this same thing over on the main board a few times. If you could help me with your perspective, and show me some articles or just some sort of proof for when he acts like this. I have seen him avoid the media, ok, now I would like to see where he is evasive towards his teammates and/or coaches. This seems critical to me since this is what you are suggesting.

I would like to know what he is saying to his teammates on the bench and in the locker room as support of this perspective. If this truly is the case then I will be very disappointed with him as well.

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01-23-2013, 11:43 AM
  #38
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I think commentating/speculating on captain type things are the worst kinds of commentating and speculating mainly because there are so many things we as fans are not privy to and never will be....we know a very small fraction about how he acts as captain.

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01-23-2013, 11:44 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Dee Oh Cee View Post
I think commentating/speculating on captain type things are the worst kinds of commentating and speculating mainly because there are so many things we as fans are not privy to and never will be....we know a very small fraction about how he acts as captain.
No, clearly we know Koivu's leadership abilities based on his interviews. That's all being a captain is right, interviewing well?

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01-23-2013, 11:56 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Dee Oh Cee View Post
I think commentating/speculating on captain type things are the worst kinds of commentating and speculating mainly because there are so many things we as fans are not privy to and never will be....we know a very small fraction about how he acts as captain.
Considering that's all we have to go off of, I see no harm in discussing it using the only criteria we have. Perception is critical, both in sports and pretty much any business situation--be it as an employee or employer.

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01-23-2013, 12:00 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Dee Oh Cee View Post
I think commentating/speculating on captain type things are the worst kinds of commentating and speculating mainly because there are so many things we as fans are not privy to and never will be....we know a very small fraction about how he acts as captain.
Correct. Still all I know about Koivu is enough for me to say that I cant think of any player in todays NHL that I personally would choose over Koivu to captain my team. Opinion.

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01-23-2013, 12:04 PM
  #42
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Didn't Yeo say in reference to Parise and Koivu something along the lines of "It's great when your two best players are your two hardest working players. Everyone follows suit."?

That's a captain.

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01-23-2013, 12:16 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
I'd say I agree with Geo, I am not overly enamored with his leadership. Yet, I'm not in awe of his play. I think its been romanticized here. I was hoping Yeo would evaluate it, figure out he's an ok leader at best and then make him compete for it this season.

The worst thing a leader can be is evasive and disconnected in times of struggle, which he has been. And perhaps worst been in denial of his / and his team's poor play. Which has also been the case.

Parise has never shown me that, nor has Suter. While it would not be feasible to just hand them the "C" right now, I'd seriously consider it if I was Mike Yeo. However we'll see what type of leaders they are over the course of the next few months.
Which coach, player, trainer or waterboy are you on the bench that you see Koivu being Evasive and disconnected? So he's not a good quote when they are losing. Big deal.

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01-23-2013, 12:20 PM
  #44
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...ypNnZTGI#t=16s Roughly translated: question "What kind of team you had for coaching?" Jalonen: "Incredibly proud... or we all are extremely proud of this team. This was Mikko Koivu's team, this wasn't Jukka Jalonen's team or any other's team. This was Mikko Koivu's team and others followed. Very tough leader like few other guys..."

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01-23-2013, 12:30 PM
  #45
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If I respond to this thread, I will get infracted for flaming again. Same target, too.

I suppose John Tortorella is a terribad coach because he is short with the media... Of course, the numerous Jack Adams nominations and awards don't mean squat...

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01-23-2013, 12:52 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Dee Oh Cee View Post
Suter seems like he'd be the last guy to ever be captain...he seems to be even more soft spoken than Joe Mauer.

Maybe that's different in the locker room but it's hard to see.
Agreed. He seems very soft spoken without much personality.

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01-23-2013, 01:04 PM
  #47
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I remember who we played, but the exact time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceMN View Post
I've read you saying this same thing over on the main board a few times. If you could help me with your perspective, and show me some articles or just some sort of proof for when he acts like this. I have seen him avoid the media, ok, now I would like to see where he is evasive towards his teammates and/or coaches. This seems critical to me since this is what you are suggesting.

I would like to know what he is saying to his teammates on the bench and in the locker room as support of this perspective. If this truly is the case then I will be very disappointed with him as well.
Is a bit more elusive. It was a game where we played the Los Angeles Kings; Todd Richards was coach and the effort was beyond atrocious. No one tried at all. The Kings who were struggling didn't play all that great and they won mainly because the Wild had given up. Koivu was asked by Russo about the team's effort and he thought they worked hard and played well. It was flat out denial of what had just happened. Russo even was amazed at it. Again...I'd find it if I had more time to look.

As far as the disconnect. Again I could find the articles if I had more time (I'm on my lunch and its almost over) and it was the fact he wouldn't watch the team while he was hurt towards the end of last season. He wouldn't even go to the home games. I think that is horrible leadership. Why should your teammates battle for your leader when your leader's pride is too important to him to deal with that he won't even be where his teammates are battling. If I was hurt, I don't care how much it would suck watching the game I'd go because I'm a member of a team. If I was captain I'd want my team to know I still had their back even if I'm unable to play. To me there is a ton of symbolism there. His personal discomfort was far more important than being a good team member. Russo didn't rip him, but IMO he should have.

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01-23-2013, 01:05 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
If I respond to this thread, I will get infracted for flaming again. Same target, too.

I suppose John Tortorella is a terribad coach because he is short with the media... Of course, the numerous Jack Adams nominations and awards don't mean squat...
Tortorella wouldn't deny the truth though and he wouldn't just walk away from the team in the middle of a game he's coaching in. He may be short about it, but he'd confront it. I think you're comparing apples to oranges.

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01-23-2013, 01:11 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by LemaireisGOD View Post
Is a bit more elusive. It was a game where we played the Los Angeles Kings; Todd Richards was coach and the effort was beyond atrocious. No one tried at all. The Kings who were struggling didn't play all that great and they won mainly because the Wild had given up. Koivu was asked by Russo about the team's effort and he thought they worked hard and played well. It was flat out denial of what had just happened. Russo even was amazed at it. Again...I'd find it if I had more time to look.

As far as the disconnect. Again I could find the articles if I had more time (I'm on my lunch and its almost over) and it was the fact he wouldn't watch the team while he was hurt towards the end of last season. He wouldn't even go to the home games. I think that is horrible leadership. Why should your teammates battle for your leader when your leader's pride is too important to him to deal with that he won't even be where his teammates are battling. If I was hurt, I don't care how much it would suck watching the game I'd go because I'm a member of a team. If I was captain I'd want my team to know I still had their back even if I'm unable to play. To me there is a ton of symbolism there. His personal discomfort was far more important than being a good team member. Russo didn't rip him, but IMO he should have.
So you want a captain that throws his team under the bus? It serves no benefit to throw out in the media that your team sucks. We have no idea what happened behind closed doors and in practice or how Koivu reacted then.

And what are you talking about with Koivu not being at the games when he was hurt? Russo was constantly tweeting about how Koivu was sitting behind him in the press box and he could feel Koivu's anger about how things were going.

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01-23-2013, 01:27 PM
  #50
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But who in the current NHL is a better captain then Koivu? Crosby? More talented sure, but I wouldn't want him as a captain. Zetterberg? Not as hard working in my opinion. Callahan? Maybe, but he's similar to Koivu, maybe more defense and energy instead of offense.

Of course it's a matter of personal opinion, but I think we have one of the best captains in the league in terms of leadership. And like it was said above, exactly the things that define a good leader are the things we don't see as fans.

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