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*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:15 PM
  #26
baartman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcjonny View Post
This is a Luongo thread right?
I believe we were discussing the team needs of Vancouver, if a defenseman might be traded for lu.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:17 PM
  #27
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proposal...

to VAN: Marcus Johansson, Michal Neuvirth

to WAS: Roberto Luongo

what do you think ?

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:18 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I still like the NYI proposed deal of Nino, Nabokov/DP (dump), Vis (possible dump? rights to the guy this off season?) and what ever.

If that was ok'd by Edmonton fans, Gagner and Hemsky straight.

Chicago and Toronto don't want to contribute to creating a monster in Vancouver.

Did I miss any "can't miss" deals offered from fans of other fan bases?

EDIT: Philly and Florida not with standing, but I haven't heard a Flyers fan propose or even ok Hartnell or Couturier, and Florida is almost the same kind of deal as Chicago or Toronto, but can offer prospects we could make good use of and isn't in our conference.
Gagner and Hemmer straight takes our whole second line away. I'd think Gagner+Pjaarvi+2nd round pick or some other mix of prospects would be more reasonable. The goal is to still win games this season, and I don't think getting Luongo would mitigate losing all of our depth scoring.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:19 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by rocketxav9 View Post
proposal...

to VAN: Marcus Johansson, Michal Neuvirth

to WAS: Roberto Luongo

what do you think ?
I don't see the issue with Washington if we were waiting on them to make a move. I think it would have to be one of Edm or Chi.

And I don't think Gillis would be looking for a player like Marcus Johansson but probably more at Laich.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:20 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Babs View Post
Maybe a conditional 2nd?
I'd hope for a little more for the risk involved. I mean, we're not just trying to clear him from our roster, and while Filppula would be a sound player choice for this year, if we could do like Luongo+Ballard for Flip+Cleary+2nd or something (from the defense to Detroit thread, Cleary is the odd man out it seems) and flip either Cleary or Raymond, plus Detroit's and Vancouver's 2nd, for Clowe....now we're cooking with fire if we're doing an "all in" situation.

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01-23-2013, 02:21 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketxav9 View Post
proposal...

to VAN: Marcus Johansson, Michal Neuvirth

to WAS: Roberto Luongo

what do you think ?
I like Johansson, and if we can flip Neuvirth (I don't see him being retained with Lack and Schneider here), I'd be in. I don't see Washington lining up to take this though.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:24 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I'd hope for a little more for the risk involved. I mean, we're not just trying to clear him from our roster, and while Filppula would be a sound player choice for this year, if we could do like Luongo+Ballard for Flip+Cleary+2nd or something (from the defense to Detroit thread, Cleary is the odd man out it seems) and flip either Cleary or Raymond, plus Detroit's and Vancouver's 2nd, for Clowe....now we're cooking with fire if we're doing an "all in" situation.
Cleary is also a UFA next year so that might be doable, would certainly make us a crazy deep team for this year.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:26 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by PETRYDISH View Post
Gagner and Hemmer straight takes our whole second line away. I'd think Gagner+Pjaarvi+2nd round pick or some other mix of prospects would be more reasonable. The goal is to still win games this season, and I don't think getting Luongo would mitigate losing all of our depth scoring.
Appriciate the feed back. Hemsky would be the player I'd be targetting though, and while I understand the logistical problems of rebuilding a second line as well as any fan base can (we're short Booth and Kesler at the moment), I think Gagner would be miscast as our third line center without an added offensive element to the mix.

Not that I'm trying to sell Lu to Edmonton, but he is excellent at mitigating the loss of scoring depth, and is one of the sole reasons we won games in the years after he was acquired.

Gagner+MPS+ isn't without some intrigue though, I will say that.

Depending on how Schroeder and Raymond do, adding MPS to that on an interm basis (until our second line returns) to that mix could make for a heck of a third scoring line, with Gagner holding the fort with a combo of Higgins, Hansen, Kassian or Burrows on the second.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:28 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babs View Post
Cleary is also a UFA next year so that might be doable, would certainly make us a crazy deep team for this year.
So is Clowe btw

No, that's my "all or nothing" kind of proposal, and I mean with Lu and Malhotra and Alberts and Ballard (potentially) off the books, Clowe(or Cleary), Flip, Higgins and Lapierre could all potentially be retained if everyone want's to play nice when negotiating contracts. Here'd be hoping any way.

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01-23-2013, 02:33 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
So is Clowe btw

No, that's my "all or nothing" kind of proposal, and I mean with Lu and Malhotra and Alberts and Ballard (potentially) off the books, Clowe(or Cleary), Flip, Higgins and Lapierre could all potentially be retained if everyone want's to play nice when negotiating contracts. Here'd be hoping any way.
What about taking Bert back instead of Cleary? Or ...wait I was going to say Franzen but he has another one of those crazy contracts.

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01-23-2013, 02:35 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PETRYDISH View Post
Gagner and Hemmer straight takes our whole second line away. I'd think Gagner+Pjaarvi+2nd round pick or some other mix of prospects would be more reasonable. The goal is to still win games this season, and I don't think getting Luongo would mitigate losing all of our depth scoring.
I really REALLY don't want to see Lu in an Oiler jersey.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:35 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
Ya, a lot of Leafs fan were guilty of that. I think we have had some potential in the past, but unfotunatly I feel our parts are greater then the hole. Our defence pairing have not worked overly well for us lately.

I think the common thought of a PMD paired with a shutdown D is the way to go. It's not, IMO. pairings are developed with chemistry. With these thoughts an explosive D > solid shutdown D. The explosiveness draws attention, which is a system that relies on constant attack. A shutdown D has no place in this type of system.

Edler > Garrison
Gardiner > Schenn/Gunnarson etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
That's way to simple a way to look at it.

The Canucks most valuable dman is not Edler, it's Hamhuis. He is not an explosive dman, he's a shutdown dman. He plays with Bieksa, who puts up more points, and gets more icetime in offensive situation, and overall is a better offensive dman.

Hamhuis is a pure shutdown dman for the Canucks, and is the most valuable dman on the team. And this in a system that is known as an offensive one, with quick puck movement and skating from the back-end (something that both the GM and coach have talked about being important parts of their system).

For the Canucks, pairing a PMD with a shutdown dman has been the way to go. This is when they've had their most success overall as a pairing and shown the most chemistry in the past. We can go back to the Ohlund/Mitchell days and how they were paired with PMDs to see this. We clearly see this now with Hamhuis as well.

The problem usually isn't having a PMD with a shutdown guy, but having 2 guys that have developed chemistry and balance with each other. It isn't just about putting a PMD with a shutdown dman, it's about having a PMD who's skills mesh well with a shutdown dman, who's reads cover well for that PMD. Hamhuis provides this for Bieksa. We're hoping that Garrison can provide this for Edler.

This is why Gardiner won't fit in the Canucks top-4. He isn't going to displace Hamhuis obviously next to Bieksa, and he doesn't provide the defensive presence to cover for Edler, who is very much an offensive dman, and does have defensive warts that need to be covered for.

Gardiner would most definitely displace Ballard on the 3rd pairing, and would be better than Tanev, making him the team's 3rd pairing left side dman (should he be acquired). I just don't think at this stage in Gardiner's development, he's worth the cost to acquire him for this team. He's an upgrade over Ballard, but right now it's debatable how much of an upgrade he is. Obviously he has time on his side and will be a much better player when he hits his prime, but the Canucks aren't a team that can wait for him to hit his prime to get that impact from him. They are very much in win-now mode, and any team in win-now mode goes with the type of assets that fit their roster needs and roles right now - and Garrison does that. This team needed a tough, physical defensive presence in their top-4, given that Edler and Bieksa are often adventures in their own zone. They have that now in Garrison, and according to ALL Panthers fans he's been nothing short of stellar defensively since he stepped into the league. It was just his offensive game that came through last year - something we don't really need from him. Defensively he's been advertised as a tough, physical defensive rock since he came into the league.

2 games in, it's impossible to say what he's been in Vancouver, but so far there's no reason to think he's not what he was advertised to be.

And +/- is a terrible way to compare the defensive play of any dmen on different teams. Just looking +/- leaders in the league will tell you that. Last year we had guys like Boychuk, Kuba, Salvador, or Ericsson sitting well above noted shutdown dmen like Weber, Giradi, or Polak, you know that it won't tell you everything about their defensive games. Hell even players on the same team it won't always show well (given that players play against different competition on the same team). For example, last year's Norris winner, Karlsson, is known to have defensive warts, as strong as he is offensively. Is he better in his own zone than Chris Phillips? If you look just at +/- it would appear that way.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but you're expanding on my post? I think you agree with me, but not my assessment of Gardiner. Whether or not Gardiner could find his way onto the "top 4", doesn't matter. My point is, a player as potentially explosive as Gardiner is available, he needs to find his way onto your team, team needs aside. If you think the canucks are worse with Gardiner over garrison, you may be right. But I'd rather have Gardiner.

Lu and garrison for Gardiner and Connolly.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:35 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
I like Johansson, and if we can flip Neuvirth (I don't see him being retained with Lack and Schneider here), I'd be in. I don't see Washington lining up to take this though.
What? You would trust Lack over Neuvirth?

I think Neuvirth would clearly be the back up for you guys if that kind of deal was done.

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:36 PM
  #39
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What about taking Bert back instead of Cleary? Or ...wait I was going to say Franzen but he has another one of those crazy contracts.
His contract length doesn't bother me, but the cap hit does. I'm not saying it's not worth it, but another 4ish million dollar winger...not unless we can get some sure fire scoring out of him.

As for both, the idea is that with Holmstrom retired, Detroit needs to keep its net presence, and Bert and Franzen accomplish that.

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01-23-2013, 02:37 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by baartman View Post

Lu and garrison for Gardiner and Connolly.
This is not going to go over well...

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:37 PM
  #41
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What? You would trust Lack over Neuvirth?

I think Neuvirth would clearly be the back up for you guys if that kind of deal was done.
I wouldn't put it that way. I'd trust Schneider over Neuvirth though, and while Neuvirth would serve a purpose this year, I'd hope we could flip him to another team seeking a potential starter/young back up before Lack emerges to fill our back up position.

Same thinking behind not wanting Mac or Kulemin as main parts of the Lu deal, they're good players, but we have that sort of position covered.

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01-23-2013, 02:38 PM
  #42
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Bailey, Cizikas and Visnovsky for Luongo and Ballard

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:38 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
His contract length doesn't bother me, but the cap hit does. I'm not saying it's not worth it, but another 4ish million dollar winger...not unless we can get some sure fire scoring out of him.

As for both, the idea is that with Holmstrom retired, Detroit needs to keep its net presence, and Bert and Franzen accomplish that.
Really from what I see of Detroit, I think Cleary provides a better net presence.

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01-23-2013, 02:39 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Camel Toews View Post
Bailey, Cizikas and Visnovsky for Luongo and Ballard
Nino and Neilsen for Lu and Ballard?

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Old
01-23-2013, 02:46 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by PETRYDISH View Post
Gagner and Hemmer straight takes our whole second line away. I'd think Gagner+Pjaarvi+2nd round pick or some other mix of prospects would be more reasonable. The goal is to still win games this season, and I don't think getting Luongo would mitigate losing all of our depth scoring.
What about if Vancouver did Gagner + PRV + Dubnyk
(and then moved PRV and Dubnyk for a 2nd line RW)

Sort of fills all the holes on this team. (If they couldn't flip it for a RW'er I would be fine keeping PRV + 2nd)

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01-23-2013, 02:50 PM
  #46
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I would do

Luongo+
for
Gagner+Paajarvi+Pick(2nd/3rd)



But doubt Oilers will like that much; however because they're same division I just don't see Gillis letting Luo go cheap.

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01-23-2013, 02:51 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Nucks N Canes View Post
I don't see the issue with Washington if we were waiting on them to make a move. I think it would have to be one of Edm or Chi.

And I don't think Gillis would be looking for a player like Marcus Johansson but probably more at Laich.
Theres also a major salary benefit to Johansen opposed to Laich.

Also goes with Gillis philosophy of younger + bigger
(yes I know Laich is bigger, but Johansson is a relatively big young center)

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01-23-2013, 02:59 PM
  #48
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I would do

Luongo+
for
Gagner+Paajarvi+Pick(2nd/3rd)



But doubt Oilers will like that much; however because they're same division I just don't see Gillis letting Luo go cheap.
No interest in him at all.

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Old
01-23-2013, 03:01 PM
  #49
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Any theories as to how Gillis plans to get under the cap in the summer?

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01-23-2013, 03:02 PM
  #50
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Any theories as to how Gillis plans to get under the cap in the summer?
The dumping of Keith Ballard and the retirement of Manny Malhotra. Also, Raymond is likely to either be moved or not tendered a contract.

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