A few of you need to learn the difference between being injury-prone and being tough.
For the record, Gagner and Hemsky have enough toughness. Gagner fought Beauchemin over a hit on Hall. Hemsky has had runs taken at him his entire career. In the past, the other team would primarily target him as he was one of the few skilled players on the Oilers.
I'd rather stand pat and develop a supremely talented team than lose value on stupid trades meant to try and form an idealized version of what a playoff team should be. It's a myth that size correlates with playoff success.
Gagner is tough in the sense that he's willing to put his body on the line for a play, or willing to drop the gloves with some pretty scary guys, but that is useless when a swift breeze from the closing of the zamboni gate can knock you off the puck. RNH is a strong player despite his size, and can use his quickness and aggressiveness to win puck battles along the boards. Gagner, not so much.
Gagner is tough in the sense that he's willing to put his body on the line for a play, or willing to drop the gloves with some pretty scary guys, but that is useless when a swift breeze from the closing of the zamboni gate can knock you off the puck. RNH is a strong player despite his size, and can use his quickness and aggressiveness to win puck battles along the boards. Gagner, not so much.
If any of you hadn't noticed, Gagner is the new shiny whipping boy as evidenced by the hyperbole written by posters such as above.
Gagner is a fine player and does a lot of things right. He holds himself well physically and dishes out the occasional hit. He also battles quite nicely on the boards, too.
I don't think they're soft, just small so they get taken off the puck easily. They battle hard and at times are very good at controlling the boards offensively. It's on defense that's the problem, which is well known. They can't handle big top lines like from San Jose for example. But they do play hard. Granted they need to do a better job on the PK and last night they gave up 3 PP goals in 4 chances in the first. After that the team became deflated and the flood gates opened. All teams have a bad period sometimes. Vancouver had a horrendous second period in their home opener. But the team did show character and battled hard in the final 2 frames. They will get there. It's a slow process and I wish it would speed up faster, but it is what it is. Growing pains are going to happen.
I don't see the Canucks 2nd line exactly filling the net this year.
What idiocy. 2 of Vancouver's top 6 forwards are injured. It's like taking out Gagner and Hemsky out of Edmonton's top 6 (Kesler and Booth are obviously better but just a comparable)
If any of you hadn't noticed, Gagner is the new shiny whipping boy as evidenced by the hyperbole written by posters such as above.
Gagner is a fine player and does a lot of things right. He holds himself well physically and dishes out the occasional hit. He also battles quite nicely on the boards, too.
Gagner isn't a new whipping boy. People have been complaining about him for years. I happen to like the guy, and he could be a second line center on a lot of teams. I think the Oilers priority should be improving the d-core rather than finding a new 2C at this point. Doesn't change the fact that he's soft as butter, and gets caught out of position in the defensive zone a lot.
Gagner battles along the boards well? Come on... that's easily the worst thing about his game.
Until the Oilers prove they can grind through a whole season and finish near the top, or grind through an entire playoffs run and come up one game short, there is no basis for this. The Canucks' roster has done this, the Oilers looks like wet paper.
We realize Edmonton fans hate Vancouver, but not every thread about Edmonton has to be turned into a Vancouver thread.
amen! Its funny I've seen people be critical about the Oilers (Canuck fans included) & then I see some Oiler fans try to turn it around on the Canuck fans. You know I thought this was a thread about the Oilers, clearly post #91 is being ignored because it looks like its being turned into a pissing match.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn
Stick to the topic. We do not need this to turn into a pissing match. No warnings from this point, forward.
Don't worry guys, as a Vancouver fan I can tell you people will call your team soft even when it isn't.
NHL fans define soft as "how big are your star players"
When you have star players like RNH/Eberle/Yak, or in Vans case The Sedins people will use that to generalize your entire team.
(Whens the last time you thought of Nashville as a tough team? Thet were 2nd lowest in fights last year, but you instantly think of Shea Weber and assume toughness).
A lot of Vancouver fans were upset when guys like Orr and Macintyre were clearing waivers.
The key is having relevant toughness in your lineup which is very difficult.
example:
Philly: Hartnell, Simmonds in your top-6
Boston: Lucic, Chara, Horton, Mcquaid
Theres only a few "tough teams" in the NHL (maybe 3-4), most other teams just have a Ben Eager on the 4th line.
Gagner is one of the most underrated players in the game. People don't realize he's only 23.
I agree with this. Yes he's a smurf, yes he's only managed to put up 40-50 points every year in the league but that's not even that bad. I still think a career high of maybe 60-70 is do-able. The guy's not even a year older than Eberle.
amen! Its funny I've seen people be critical about the Oilers (Canuck fans included) & then I see some Oiler fans try to turn it around on the Canuck fans. You know I thought this was a thread about the Oilers, clearly post #91 is being ignored because it looks like its being turned into a pissing match.
I heard somewhere that the Oilers are going to pursue Getzlaf and it'd be Gagner, Paajarvi and a pick going the other way. We basically need someone like Getzlaf or Jordan Staal (obviously we can't get him) to fill out our second line and solidify us down the middle. Basically someone with more size, more skill, more experience, more grit and a bigger contract.
I agree with this. Yes he's a smurf, yes he's only managed to put up 40-50 points every year in the league but that's not even that bad. I still think a career high of maybe 60-70 is do-able. The guy's not even a year older than Eberle.
This isn't so much about Gagner's potential as much as there's a glaring need for the Oilers to get someone tougher. You're totally right bro, Gagner, with Hemsky and Yakupov on the wings can put up lots of points going forward. But what if the Oilers were able to get a true power forward down the middle on the 2nd line? It'd totally change the dynamic of this conversation and the Oilers Stanley Cup chances.
Gagner is tough in the sense that he's willing to put his body on the line for a play, or willing to drop the gloves with some pretty scary guys, but that is useless when a swift breeze from the closing of the zamboni gate can knock you off the puck. RNH is a strong player despite his size, and can use his quickness and aggressiveness to win puck battles along the boards. Gagner, not so much.
Well that's puck possession, which I consider drastically different from size or toughness. RNH is near the bottom of the league for size but, as you mentioned, is fantastic at puck possession.
Paajarvi is playing the body a lot down on the farm and was pretty physical last night.
If he learned how to use his size properly, got more physical on a regular basis or even learned to play center he'd make Gagner or Hemsky expendable very quick.
Kassian is starting the season on the second line. And yes, with two big physical players from the Canucks top 6 currently injured and being replaced by small players, the Canucks top 6 is comparably soft to the Oilers top 6 (still think Kassian + Burrows gives the Canucks the edge there). That doesn't say good things about the Oilers top 6.
Kesler and Burrows? You mean the turtle twins? Skinner could bump into Kesler incidentally and he goes down like he's been shot. Burrows will hit anyone from behind then runs when challenged to man up. That's not tough, that's cowardice.
Kesler and Burrows? You mean the turtle twins? Skinner could bump into Kesler incidentally and he goes down like he's been shot. Burrows will hit anyone from behind then runs when challenged to man up. That's not tough, that's cowardice.
I don't think they're soft, just small so they get taken off the puck easily. They battle hard and at times are very good at controlling the boards offensively. It's on defense that's the problem, which is well known. They can't handle big top lines like from San Jose for example. But they do play hard. Granted they need to do a better job on the PK and last night they gave up 3 PP goals in 4 chances in the first. After that the team became deflated and the flood gates opened. All teams have a bad period sometimes. Vancouver had a horrendous second period in their home opener. But the team did show character and battled hard in the final 2 frames. They will get there. It's a slow process and I wish it would speed up faster, but it is what it is. Growing pains are going to happen.
This. It's this.
Their forwards look like boys playing against men at times. It's a huge problem for them right now. It will eventually be fixed. The problem is that by the time these guys get bigger, they'll be on their second contracts and the cap will become Edmonton's nightmare.
Kesler and Burrows? You mean the turtle twins? Skinner could bump into Kesler incidentally and he goes down like he's been shot. Burrows will hit anyone from behind then runs when challenged to man up. That's not tough, that's cowardice.
If they are getting this kind of reaction out of you, don't you think they are doing something effective from a sandpaper/grit/edge perspective?
I mean you don't exactly have the same kind of feelings towards a Teemu Selanne/Sami Salo do you?
Well that's puck possession, which I consider drastically different from size or toughness. RNH is near the bottom of the league for size but, as you mentioned, is fantastic at puck possession.
This
Edmonton has the brightest young core in the NHL.
The real test will be providing a good supporting cast around these guys. Not every team can have a Lucic, but replacing some fringe players with strong role players will be the key.
A guy like Fistric is a perfect example. Big, physical guy who can log decent minutes.
- Cost Edmonton a 3rd round pick.
Vancouver got Lapierre and Higgins for 3rd round picks.
- Lapierre is gritty and plays anywhere in the bottom 6
- Higgins is a 2nd line guy who's one of the hardest working guys in the league,
Its just a matter of adding a nice supporting cast
Kesler and Burrows? You mean the turtle twins? Skinner could bump into Kesler incidentally and he goes down like he's been shot. Burrows will hit anyone from behind then runs when challenged to man up. That's not tough, that's cowardice.
As much as I'd like to see the most recent instances of Burrows running someone, pretty sure this goes against the mod warning.
Sure EDM is relatively soft, but nothing that can't be changed via trade or UFA. They have the assets and enough talent to draw players now to make it happen imo.
Not that anyone can provide scientific proof of such a thing. There is practically a YouTube page dedicated to his diving< cheapshots and generally making a fool of himself if that helps...
