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The Official Arena Thread Part 6

View Poll Results: On what day will city council vote to finalize a new arena for Edmonton's downtown?
Between now and Christmas 2012 8 7.41%
Between New Year's Day and the end of February 2013 30 27.78%
Between March and July, 2013 16 14.81%
Before the October 2013 civic election 14 12.96%
Not until 2014 4 3.70%
Not until 2015 3 2.78%
Not until 2016 1 0.93%
Not until 2017 6 5.56%
Never 26 24.07%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-23-2013, 03:46 PM
  #976
molsonmuscle360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
I'm well aware that the winter garden concept has space for a bunch of other crap. My argument, and has been plenty clear from the get go, is simply that it's a waste of money, a white elephant. It's not a vital component of the project, it's merely a shiny bauble that won't, IMO, add much of anything to the overall experience except increasing the cost of the whole project.
And then when it's taken out people will then complain that there is nothing there for the general public to use, and that traffic will end up getting backed up with all the foot traffic crossing the street during game nights etc.

I think it is a vital part of the project. The "crap" you are talking about are local amateur sport that always needs extra playing area. Promoting amateur sport is never a bad thing. Not everything in Edmonton needs to be completely utilitarian.

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01-23-2013, 03:47 PM
  #977
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I view it similarly to building a new house. Yes, maybe you could build a house for $400,000; but what about all of the extra add-ons that give it more character, better look, etc. Cheaper is not always better.
Except, to me, this is more like building a house and deciding to spend more than 10 per cent of your total budget on making the garage look really sweet.

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Old
01-23-2013, 03:48 PM
  #978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
I'm well aware that the winter garden concept has space for a bunch of other crap. My argument, and has been plenty clear from the get go, is simply that it's a waste of money, a white elephant. It's not a vital component of the project, it's merely a shiny bauble that won't, IMO, add much of anything to the overall experience except increasing the cost of the whole project.
Then instead of arguing what the winter garden actually is (and failing at it), why didn't you just say - I'd rather we went with design B?

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01-23-2013, 03:49 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
I'm well aware that the winter garden concept has space for a bunch of other crap. My argument, and has been plenty clear from the get go, is simply that it's a waste of money, a white elephant. It's not a vital component of the project, it's merely a shiny bauble that won't, IMO, add much of anything to the overall experience except increasing the cost of the whole project.
By all accounts its Katz who really, really wants that pedway. Apparentllty he believes it really increase the value to the surrounding development.
Which of course begs the question....

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01-23-2013, 03:52 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Except, to me, this is more like building a house and deciding to spend more than 10 per cent of your total budget on making the garage look really sweet.
If your garage is also the main entrance and multi-purpose amenity space in your home I would see your point but I can't see how the winter garden concept relates...

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01-23-2013, 03:52 PM
  #981
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If your garage is also the main entrance and multi-purpose amenity space in your home I would see your point but I can't see how the winter garden concept relates...
Yeah, I think I would view it as someone who put a really nice entrance lobby or greenhouse or something in their house.

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01-23-2013, 03:56 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
And then when it's taken out people will then complain that there is nothing there for the general public to use, and that traffic will end up getting backed up with all the foot traffic crossing the street during game nights etc.
I'm still advocating for an overpass. What's wrong with Option B?

Quote:
I think it is a vital part of the project. The "crap" you are talking about are local amateur sport that always needs extra playing area. Promoting amateur sport is never a bad thing. Not everything in Edmonton needs to be completely utilitarian.
For $53M, you could probably get a purpose-built amateur sports complex somewhere. Is the middle of a concourse above 104th really the optimal location for a concert/amateur sports event?

Finally, there's a lot of room between "utilitarian" and "extravagant".

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01-23-2013, 03:58 PM
  #983
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Option A AINEC for me. Go big or go home. Make a statement.

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Old
01-23-2013, 03:59 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Booya42 View Post
Then instead of arguing what the winter garden actually is (and failing at it), why didn't you just say - I'd rather we went with design B?
I did. Learn to read.

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01-23-2013, 04:01 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Yeah, I think I would view it as someone who put a really nice entrance lobby or greenhouse or something in their house.
...without having all the money to pay for his project.

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01-23-2013, 04:05 PM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
I'm still advocating for an overpass. What's wrong with Option B?



For $53M, you could probably get a purpose-built amateur sports complex somewhere. Is the middle of a concourse above 104th really the optimal location for a concert/amateur sports event?

Finally, there's a lot of room between "utilitarian" and "extravagant".
Option A - City pays $219 million

Option B - City pays $215 million

Option C - City pays $217 Million

Katz wants option A, and it gets the deal done now without further wrangling. It also doesn't cost the city more, so what's the problem?

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01-23-2013, 04:05 PM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
I'm still advocating for an overpass. What's wrong with Option B?



For $53M, you could probably get a purpose-built amateur sports complex somewhere. Is the middle of a concourse above 104th really the optimal location for a concert/amateur sports event?

Finally, there's a lot of room between "utilitarian" and "extravagant".
Why is the location of it any matter? Is it just because it's attached to a Katz project that you don't like it then? If the sport complex was 3 or 4 blocks away on someone elses property you'd have no problem them spending 53 million on it, but since it's part of this project you don't like it? Also, what is viewed as being extravagant by some now, will be seen as something quite basic 15 years from now. Why wouldn't the city want their new arena to last the test of time, instead of turning into another tomb like Rexall.

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01-23-2013, 04:11 PM
  #988
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Looks like there is enough support from the councilors that have already spoken.

Also, some nice shots at Katz (that he deserves IMO) saying that if they vote in favour of this deal that they hope he doesn't try to change it again.

Basically, this is the same exact deal from October, 2011 with an extra $15 million from each side. Such a huge time waster by the Katz Group by trying to fish for more money (annual subsidy of $6 million) last fall.

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01-23-2013, 04:15 PM
  #989
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not a shovel in the ground until August? why not sooner?

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01-23-2013, 04:16 PM
  #990
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Mandel speaking out his mind, kinda sounds like hes hating on everybody for wasting time

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01-23-2013, 04:16 PM
  #991
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I promise to take a picture of the construction each day!

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01-23-2013, 04:17 PM
  #992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
I did. Learn to read.
Then why continue to argue about what the winter garden is being used for? Design B doesn't have a winter garden and only a pedway.



Sometimes i think you argue just for the sake of the argument...

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01-23-2013, 04:18 PM
  #993
fysloc
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Mandel telling everybody to stop thinking about giving money to a billionaire, help billionaire get richer, and start thinking about the greater picture to help the city.

Great mayor to speak out.

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Old
01-23-2013, 04:23 PM
  #994
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Basically, this is the same exact deal from October, 2011 with an extra $15 million from each side. Such a huge time waster by the Katz Group by trying to fish for more money (annual subsidy of $6 million) last fall.
Kind of like the lockout eh?

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01-23-2013, 04:24 PM
  #995
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I wish Shaw was airing the Council meeting. They were, but when they broke for lunch Shaw didn't come back. I was enjoying watching, and now have to rely on this thread for updates.

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01-23-2013, 04:26 PM
  #996
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Kind of like the lockout eh?
Pretty much.

Final vote was 10-3 in favour and now we hope that Katz doesn't have a change of heart again.

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01-23-2013, 04:28 PM
  #997
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It still seems like Edmonton taxpayers are still getting screwed in this deal, and Katz is getting away relatively scott free.

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01-23-2013, 04:28 PM
  #998
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Pretty much.

Final vote was 10-3 in favour and now we hope that Katz doesn't have a change of heart again.
Which one? Option A?

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01-23-2013, 04:30 PM
  #999
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Which one? Option A?
Yuuup!

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01-23-2013, 04:31 PM
  #1000
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Yuuup!
Good, good.

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