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Lowe: You can always ask

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Old
12-12-2003, 10:21 AM
  #76
Obsessed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Lowe has come out and said Comrie earned those bonuses fair and square end of story. Comrie wants to be traded to Anaheim and only Anaheim he says any team that trades for him that is not Anaheim he will essentially ask for $20million dollars a year from them because he does not want to play with them forcing all interested parties to not trade for him since they would be unable to sign him afterwards. Now that Comrie has limited Lowe's available teams that he can be traded to, to essentialy one team that still has interest in him Lowe is not getting the best value that the market dictates because there is no one to bargain against Murray(somewhat of a Monopoly on the Comrie bidding) . Lowe & Murray discuss a deal with Lowe saying he would not let him go unless he attained what he is worth now the most Murray will put on the table is Perry+a 1st which Lowe decides is not quite fair, which is perfectly alright is it not? Now Winter Comrie's agent suggests that Comrie make up some of the difference so Lowe will trade him because Lowe will not do this trade until he gets fair value. Lowe meerly allows the option of him putting up money to even it out, otherwise Lowe will just wait for the next deal that does give him fair value which would not include Comrie payments. Lowe is not extorting Comrie, he is not saying pay me or you won't be traded, he is not asking for bonuses back, he is not saying pay me or rot for 8 years, he is not doing anything illegal. Its real simple Comrie only wishes to be traded to one team that one team will not give fair value so Winter(Comrie's agent) suggest to pick up the rest of the tab to make it fair. Is that so hard to understand for all of you?????

Now lets talk about Murray how come he recieves no criticism for coming out to the Edmonton Sun and disclosing private negotiations with the press so as to lobby support for the deal to go through. Isn't that just a tad unethical Gm's are not supposed to let the public be priivy to contract negotiations and Lowe did not o.k. him to share that confidential information with the press. This right here is a big no-no between fellow GM's that Murray just broke.
Well said. I think there isn't much more to it than that. Its all up to how bad Comrie wants to play hockey now. Lowe is going to get what he feels is fair value. That is obvious. Maybe Comrie will expand the teams he plays for. Really who does he think he is Doug Weight?? Bahhh.

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Old
12-12-2003, 10:28 AM
  #77
Roy Batty
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Originally Posted by OpinionatedMike
Maybe I've missed something.....but I don't see how anyone here can fault Lowe, and I don't know of anyone who thinks Lowe, or the Oilers team is a joke because of this.

Tons of players hold out. TONS. Kevin Lowe has decided that what he wants is, a young prospect, a 1st Round Pick, and 2.5 Million. Anahiem doesn't want to pony it up, so Comrie is the one that better, or else he won't go to Anahiem.

Pretty simple. Comrie sits until he's 31, or until Anahiem or himself pony up 2.5 Million. I love it. I wish more GM's had the guts to pull things like this. Then maybe we wouldn't have Martin Lapointe making 5.5 a season and 3rd and 4th liners making 1-2 Million a season.

I hope Comrie has nothing but a 4th line center carrer. Spolied brat.
It's obvious that you are bitter, but shouldn't you blame the Oilers for Comrie making too much too early in his career? Wasn't it performance bonuses that put him in the $5MM range? If the Oilers had done exactly what you mentioned above, we wouldn't be reading about this in the paper today. Of course, he would have held out then as well, management would have pissed off the fans, and players around the league would have a strong aversion to going to Edmonton, which seems likely now anyway.

So Lowe wants to recoup some of that $, which is his right. But, even he said that he didn't know if this had ever been done before. He had heard rumors, but didn't have proof. I've never heard of it happening at any time, in ANY professional sport.

What's odd is that he waited until he had struck a deal with a team, then waited until the player agreed on a contract with that team, THEN added the $2.5MM US figure to the equation.

I wonder if the NHLPA is concerned that Lowe has just set a precedent that would allow a GM to negotiate a deal with a team, then demand more from the player, either because he can't get a better deal, or just because he wants to stick it to the player? That's lowe.

Anaheim won't pony up. Good luck getting two first rounders and $2.5MM anywhere (didn't Lowe call Comrie a 2nd line center?), and Comrie probably doesn't have $2.5M laying around.

So, Comrie can sit until he's 31 and you guys can snicker about it gleefully. I hear the circus is in Edmonton.

 
Old
12-12-2003, 10:42 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Batty
It's obvious that you are bitter, but shouldn't you blame the Oilers for Comrie making too much too early in his career? Wasn't it performance bonuses that put him in the $5MM range? If the Oilers had done exactly what you mentioned above, we wouldn't be reading about this in the paper today. Of course, he would have held out then as well, management would have pissed off the fans, and players around the league would have a strong aversion to going to Edmonton, which seems likely now anyway.

So Lowe wants to recoup some of that $, which is his right. But, even he said that he didn't know if this had ever been done before. He had heard rumors, but didn't have proof. I've never heard of it happening at any time, in ANY professional sport.

What's odd is that he waited until he had struck a deal with a team, then waited until the player agreed on a contract with that team, THEN added the $2.5MM US figure to the equation.

I wonder if the NHLPA is concerned that Lowe has just set a precedent that would allow a GM to negotiate a deal with a team, then demand more from the player, either because he can't get a better deal, or just because he wants to stick it to the player? That's lowe.

Anaheim won't pony up. Good luck getting two first rounders and $2.5MM anywhere (didn't Lowe call Comrie a 2nd line center?), and Comrie probably doesn't have $2.5M laying around.

So, Comrie can sit until he's 31 and you guys can snicker about it gleefully. I hear the circus is in Edmonton.

I'm only bitter about multi-million dollar hockey players complaining that the GM said that he couldn't cut it the post season, that he isn't worth so-and-so amount. What a baby, gotta love it. Comrie took his puck and stick and went home. What a child! The CBA is completely flawed, the players have been "beating the system" for years, and now Lowe does it and he's being ripped to peices by (from what I can tell) people from these boards. You ask how the NHLPA is feeling, I'm gonna guess the same way owners feel when they see players finding loopholes like the bonus stucture of rookie contracts, and going from college to juniors and whatnot to become UFA's.

I'm completely on the side of Kevin Lowe, the same way I can't stand Yashin, Lindros, any player who refuses to play for a specific team, or holds out going against the CBA, and using "loopholes".

If I was the GM, I'd of told Comrie to enjoy Europe because I won't be trading him, then again maybe you like lawyers or agents more. I like to avoid loopholes, try to avoid screwing people. Then again others don't.

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Old
12-12-2003, 10:53 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
What has Low done as a gm to earn such high praise from his fans? His playing career is without a doubt a great one that had better see him into the hall but, as a GM what has he done that makes the average Oiler fans think him so great?

He hasn't made any trades that are anything to rave about. (or am I wrong and if so, show me where and how)

The team doesn't look any closer to the cup since he took over and in fact, some would argue that it looks further away.

The Oilers aren't ranked among the tops in prospect depth since he has taken over.
I am just curious what he has done to make him this "genius" that I keep reading about? He uses salary restrictions as a reason why he can't compete and then teams with lesser or the same are doing more and better than he is. So what is it about him that makes you so loyal.

I am not having a piss by the way, I am seriously asking because I don't see why and hope that you lot can enlighten me.

Cheers!
You are way wrong here. Since K-Lo has taken over as GM, the Oilers have been routinely ranked in the top 10 and even in the top 5 in prospect rankings by THN and many other publications. In fact the Oilers are currently ranked 7th by Hockeysfuture.

1. Chicago Blackhawks
2. Pittsburgh Penguins
3. Washington Capitals
4. Montreal Canadiens
5. Ottawa Senators
6. Florida Panthers
7. Edmonton Oilers
8. Nashville Predators
9. Anaheim Mighty Ducks
10. Los Angeles Kings

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12-12-2003, 10:57 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie



I've been hoping for a link too, but so far nothing. It was apparently mentioned on local TV last night, but not a word about it in any print I've seen. Which seems strange, because I'd have assumed that would have been widely reported. I didn't see that newscast myself, so I can't vouch for it.
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?pos...2&postcount=21
yeah, I saw it on CFRN. Paraphrasing, Lowe said that Winter had told Lowe that the Comrie camp might be willing to help out financially to get a deal done. I'm assuming though that Winter wasn't thinking "that" much money. But it looks like Winter had the "innovation" here, and perhaps Lowe just applied it?

I wonder if any team would ever give the GM spot to a guy like Winter. I know I'd rather have the guy on my side than against me, but perhaps there isn't enough money in being a GM as opposed to being an agent.

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Old
12-12-2003, 11:08 AM
  #81
Roy Batty
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Originally Posted by OpinionatedMike
I'm only bitter about multi-million dollar hockey players complaining that the GM said that he couldn't cut it the post season, that he isn't worth so-and-so amount. What a baby, gotta love it. Comrie took his puck and stick and went home. What a child! The CBA is completely flawed, the players have been "beating the system" for years, and now Lowe does it and he's being ripped to peices by (from what I can tell) people from these boards. You ask how the NHLPA is feeling, I'm gonna guess the same way owners feel when they see players finding loopholes like the bonus stucture of rookie contracts, and going from college to juniors and whatnot to become UFA's.

I'm completely on the side of Kevin Lowe, the same way I can't stand Yashin, Lindros, any player who refuses to play for a specific team, or holds out going against the CBA, and using "loopholes".

If I was the GM, I'd of told Comrie to enjoy Europe because I won't be trading him, then again maybe you like lawyers or agents more. I like to avoid loopholes, try to avoid screwing people. Then again others don't.
Don't get me wrong. You and I completely agree when it comes to players who think they are bigger than the game. Lindros, Yashin and all the rest, AND their agents, AND the owners who have no self control. I agree that Lowe has the right to get the best deal for his team. But his tactics in THIS negotiation are unprecedented. If you're saying that because of Comrie's past actions, anything goes? Ok. I get it.

 
Old
12-12-2003, 12:30 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Batty

There's no obligation on anyone's part not to explain what's happening in the negotiations.
When both parties agree to keep all commentary out of the media....and then Winter turns around days later and begins feeding th press soundbites, I'd call that a failure of obligation

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Old
12-12-2003, 01:09 PM
  #83
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This thread is interrupted to bring the news on the Comrie proposal thread:

Sometime shortly the thread will go over the magic 1000 posts mark (assuming Comrie isn't traded in the next few hours). At this time we will have fireworks (thanks to the Brick - you may have noticed the boards had to be down for a bit to allow the setup), ice cream cake (from Bettman Bakeries, New York), and coffee (thanks to 67th Cup coffee chain from Toronto) . Also the person who posts the 1000th post will get to post their next 10 posts free of flames (i.e. not free of nasty return comments, which will happen, but free of any Calgary Flames players).

I hope to see you all out for the big 1000th post celebration and Friday Night Party!

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12-12-2003, 02:02 PM
  #84
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How many of those picks that THN (thats the only one?) would use to rank the Oilers 7th a, aren't on the Oilers big club and b, where taken while under Low's watch. As for the rest well, I guess I have my answer. It is just more homerism and preference than anything else.

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12-12-2003, 07:06 PM
  #85
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Lowe was on TV during the 2nd intermission of the Oil/Coys match. Comments would be appreciated from those who watched his interview, but two highlights:

1) $ was important to the Oil, since the deal on the table didn't do anything for the Oil this year - one wonders if that means if the Oil had got $ they would have spent it on a free agent or trading & taking on salary for this year.

2) He doesn't know why Rich Winters & Comrie were on the same plane to Phoenix - suggested perhaps they might have other business?

Edit: Also said the Comrie & Winters were eager to get some deal in place and Comrie playing again. As I write this Coys 3-2.

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12-12-2003, 08:13 PM
  #86
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I thought this funny too. Low playing the "who me? I didn't do anything wrong" attitude. Right mate. All you have to do is watch and listen and you can see he is truly enjoying this. He is getting to scruw Comrie in public and laugh all the way. Of course nobody asked him why he didn't simply ask the Ducks for the dosh as part of the deal or why he didn't make it known what it would take from Comrie prior to having him work anything out with the ducks. The Ducks have an offer on the table so go ahead and work out a deal Mike. Oh you have a deal now? I want YOU to pay me $2.5 mill to make it right or your deal won't go through.

The thing is, I hope the ducks don't bloody get Mike as they are one of the teams I don't want to win a single game let alone have a decent roster, thats what having a rival is all about but you have to call out a snake when you see one and this Low is Lower than low. I can see his scales all the way down here.

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12-12-2003, 10:52 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
I thought this funny too. Low playing the "who me? I didn't do anything wrong" attitude. Right mate. All you have to do is watch and listen and you can see he is truly enjoying this. He is getting to scruw Comrie in public and laugh all the way. Of course nobody asked him why he didn't simply ask the Ducks for the dosh as part of the deal or why he didn't make it known what it would take from Comrie prior to having him work anything out with the ducks. The Ducks have an offer on the table so go ahead and work out a deal Mike. Oh you have a deal now? I want YOU to pay me $2.5 mill to make it right or your deal won't go through.

The thing is, I hope the ducks don't bloody get Mike as they are one of the teams I don't want to win a single game let alone have a decent roster, thats what having a rival is all about but you have to call out a snake when you see one and this Low is Lower than low. I can see his scales all the way down here.
I'm giving you the opportunity to play quaterback for this.

Seriously, if you were Lowe, and in this situation, what would you do, and why?

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12-12-2003, 11:07 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Batty
It's obvious that you are bitter, but shouldn't you blame the Oilers for Comrie making too much too early in his career? Wasn't it performance bonuses that put him in the $5MM range? If the Oilers had done exactly what you mentioned above, we wouldn't be reading about this in the paper today. Of course, he would have held out then as well, management would have pissed off the fans, and players around the league would have a strong aversion to going to Edmonton, which seems likely now anyway.

So Lowe wants to recoup some of that $, which is his right. But, even he said that he didn't know if this had ever been done before. He had heard rumors, but didn't have proof. I've never heard of it happening at any time, in ANY professional sport.

What's odd is that he waited until he had struck a deal with a team, then waited until the player agreed on a contract with that team, THEN added the $2.5MM US figure to the equation.

I wonder if the NHLPA is concerned that Lowe has just set a precedent that would allow a GM to negotiate a deal with a team, then demand more from the player, either because he can't get a better deal, or just because he wants to stick it to the player? That's lowe.

Anaheim won't pony up. Good luck getting two first rounders and $2.5MM anywhere (didn't Lowe call Comrie a 2nd line center?), and Comrie probably doesn't have $2.5M laying around.

So, Comrie can sit until he's 31 and you guys can snicker about it gleefully. I hear the circus is in Edmonton.
Well said

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Old
12-12-2003, 11:59 PM
  #89
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Officeglen - Excellent analagy! Of course, no one else seems to understand that this "plan" goes against all rules of modern day economics.
Personally I did find the analogy very funny, however I don't think it matches the situation enough to validate any sort of argument.

Lowe and the women have no current agreement of any sort, and he was merely propositioning what he wanted. Money and some wild stuff. She didn't mind the wild stuff but was stuck on the money part. Comrie does mind the wild stuff as he won't play for the team. He wasn't OK with demand one and then suddenly put off by demand two. Not to mention he has a standing agreement with the team of a sort.

I don't see how this plan goes against economics of any sort, unless you mean "nhl economics" in particular, which you didn't make mention of.

Something like this is not rare in the business world. Party 1 and 2 have a contract. Party 2 wants out as it wants to do its business with Party 3. Party 3 is willing to compensate Party 1 in what both consider equal value for the services Party 2 provided Party 1 under contract.

Party 1 absorbs a certain burden under Party 2's demands; it is forced to change its business plans that reflected the use of Party 2's particular services. Aside from that, Party 1 didn't and still doesn't WANT to void the contract for Party 2's services. For these two reasons Party 1 is, if not entitled, certainly allowed to demand something of its own. Rather, though, than demanding extra compensation from Party 3, compensations is demanded from Party 2. After all, Party 2 is the one making the initial demand.

As far as precedent, I'm sure this type of thing isn't too uncommon behind closed doors. I don't see it drastically different than buying out a players contract, only in reverse. Whether or not I like the demand, it is certainly a ballsy move.

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Old
12-13-2003, 07:43 AM
  #90
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Which part of it victor? I will answer but I am not sure which part you want me to respond to mate.

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12-13-2003, 07:47 AM
  #91
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Today's latest on the Soap Opera off ice includes:

Show Us the Money

Quote:
"I'm talking to six teams and they all have a legitimate interest. If anything, the interest we're getting since this happened is beyond our expectations."
Quick, name the six teams.

Game Report

Quote:
PHOENIX -- Mike Comrie and agent Ritch Winter jetted into town last night to resume trade discussions with Edmonton Oilers GM Kevin Lowe that, according to one source, could see Comrie traded to the Anaheim Mighty Ducks as early as today.
Follow me, follow you.

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12-13-2003, 08:10 AM
  #92
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Sounds like more bully to me. Thanks as always for the link glen. Cheers.

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12-13-2003, 08:38 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by punchy1
Which part of it victor? I will answer but I am not sure which part you want me to respond to mate.
Sorry,

If you had a high talent player, who, for whatever reason, decided that he didn't want to play for you any more. This player and his agent, looking for a quick trade, sign a non-disclosure agreement. They send out videotapes to selected general managers, for teams that player "X' would like to play for. The agent actively pursues deals with one or more of those teams, and comes up with a deal that is plausible (not bad, but not market value for that player) The agent recognizes this, knowing that his player will only sign a contract with a small number of teams, and offers to "top the deal up" with a little cash.

The media is informed by "sources," which weakens your position (as well as provide an excellent "load test" for the these boards ;-)

For you as the GM, what do you do to maximize the return?

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12-14-2003, 12:51 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officeglen
Lowe was on TV during the 2nd intermission of the Oil/Coys match. Comments would be appreciated from those who watched his interview, but two highlights:

1) $ was important to the Oil, since the deal on the table didn't do anything for the Oil this year - one wonders if that means if the Oil had got $ they would have spent it on a free agent or trading & taking on salary for this year.

2) He doesn't know why Rich Winters & Comrie were on the same plane to Phoenix - suggested perhaps they might have other business?

Edit: Also said the Comrie & Winters were eager to get some deal in place and Comrie playing again. As I write this Coys 3-2.
All what officeglen is referring to is true. I saw this as well, and Lowe looked pretty fustrated about the whole situation to me.

Principe asked a lot of direct questions and Lowe answered them all. He didn't dance around anyting.

The funny thing about the interview was that Lowe kept referring to Comrie as "the player". I think he only mentioned his name once.

I saw parts of the interview again a couple of times on sportsnet news.

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