I'm glad you watch a lot of hockey, but you still don't have much of a point. Nothing you have said qualifies as an effective criticism of Gaudreau's game.
And added snark doesn't help your argument either. It's just snark.
You seem to assume that he's saying something that he isn't. There's no reason to get defensive, as you have over the past 2 pages, when he hasn't really posted anything negative about Gaudreau.
He's not the next Gretzky, he does have weaknesses (hell, Gretzky did too). Somebody watching him and pointing them out is not a bad thing. It brings some balance to the conversation.
So again stop acting like you know what you are talking about.
Okay so i missed him at 94 and I like the way Corey rates guys but seriously 1 year after his draft and he only get a 94th?
He just missed top 50 after the WJC, I did see that, but let's wait and see if he cracks Corey's top 50 list after the 13 draft (which will be two drafts after Johnny's...see where this is heading? Alot of hype from the fan base but not found in the scouting community)
Button's ranking is so far off the board, kinda like the guy that put Hill top ten earlier this year that it needs an explanation to be taken seriously.
Okay so i missed him at 94 and I like the way Corey rates guys but seriously 1 year after his draft and he only get a 94th?
He just missed top 50 after the WJC, I did see that, but let's wait and see if he cracks Corey's top 50 list after the 13 draft (which will be two drafts after Johnny's...see where this is heading? Alot of hype from the fan base but not found in the scouting community)
Button's ranking is so far off the board, kinda like the guy that put Hill top ten earlier this year that it needs an explanation to be taken seriously.
I think Corey is very mediocre at rating prospects he even has Brunner on there and he is 26, he only had Conacher at 79 and he tore up the AHL and has started on fire in the nhl. He has guys like Colborne at 56. JG has caught up to guys like Jensen from the same draft, the only reason I see him behind others his is size and JG is probably more skilled then Sven judging by the summer camp. There is no perfect scout but his rankings aren't that great.
You seem to assume that he's saying something that he isn't.
He is suggesting that Gaudreau is barely good enough to be projected an NHLer (of any kind) at this point, which is silly.
He backs up his argument with an absurd illustration that defeats itself. I don't think he is right and clearly I'm not the only one who feels this way.
I think Corey is very mediocre at rating prospects he even has Brunner on there and he is 26, he only had Conacher at 79 and he tore up the AHL and has started on fire in the nhl. He has guys like Colborne at 56. JG has caught up to guys like Jensen from the same draft, the only reason I see him behind others his is size and JG is probably more skilled then Sven judging by the summer camp. There is no perfect scout but his rankings aren't that great.
No list is perfect but that Button and the ranking of those 30 players was so off the charts.
Size really matters at the NHL level more than a lot of people in this thread seem to think at times.
Marty St Louis is the exception rather than the rule and pretty much everyone missed him as the guy he would eventually become.
The fact of the matter is that most small guys don't make it and most that do are quite thick, ie over 175lbs and closer to 5'10" than 5'6".
Being 5'7" and 155ish lbs (if he even is that heavy at 20 now) makes him the long shot that he is pretty plain and simple.
Case in point is Conacher, who had him on their lists before his breakout last season (12) in the AHL?
He is also 23 years old right now, that's why he would be so low in most rankings, when comparing to guys 18-20.
No list is perfect but that Button and the ranking of those 30 players was so off the charts.
Size really matters at the NHL level more than a lot of people in this thread seem to think at times.
Marty St Louis is the exception rather than the rule and pretty much everyone missed him as the guy he would eventually become.
The fact of the matter is that most small guys don't make it and most that do are quite thick, ie over 175lbs and closer to 5'10" than 5'6".
Being 5'8"-5'9 and 155ish lbs (if he even is that heavy at 20 now) makes him the long shot that he is pretty plain and simple.
Case in point is Conacher, who had him on their lists before his breakout last season (12) in the AHL?
He is also 23 years old right now, that's why he would be so low in most rankings, when comparing to guys 18-20.
You are missing the point JG is vastly out performing Conacher at the same age and while weighing less is the same height if not taller (depending on who you ask) means that he could out perform him at the next level. I never said St Louis is the rule but in the new nhl small players are not that uncommon ( Desharnais, Atkinson, Conacher, Ennis, Schwartz, Granlund, Marchand, Baertschi, Brunner, Read,etc) thats not to mention player that have been in the league for years (Gionta, St Louis, Roy, Cammalleri, Whitney,etc). The game is changing into JG's favor he has high end hockey IQ and hands he has the skill of the top prospect if the only thing that separates him from other top prospects is an inch and 20 pounds then I think you are looking for reasons to hold him back.
Button's list isn't the norm but there is no reason to say it is any less valid as he may see things others don't and vice versa.
You are missing the point JG is vastly out performing Conacher at the same age and while weighing less is the same height if not taller (depending on who you ask) means that he could out perform him at the next level. I never said St Louis is the rule but in the new nhl small players are not that uncommon ( Desharnais, Atkinson, Conacher, Ennis, Schwartz, Granlund, Marchand, Baertschi, Brunner, Read,etc) thats not to mention player that have been in the league for years (Gionta, St Louis, Roy, Cammalleri, Whitney,etc). The game is changing into JG's favor he has high end hockey IQ and hands he has the skill of the top prospect if the only thing that separates him from other top prospects is an inch and 20 pounds then I think you are looking for reasons to hold him back.
Button's list isn't the norm but there is no reason to say it is any less valid as he may see things others don't and vice versa.
Desharnais has one good season, Atkinson and Conacher are hardly established in the NHL. The other guys are good prospects or NHL players that have had a solid year or two. The common thread among every single one of them mentioned? They are all bigger than Gaudreau. The most generous estimation of his size I've seen is 5'8" 153. I've seen him play, he's 5'7" at most. The lightest guy among those you mentioned is at least 15-20 pounds heavier than Gaudreau, which is a huge difference. Nobody that is that small has had the impact in the modern NHL that people project Gaudreau will have.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've seen Gaudreau play, and he's a great player. His vision, anticipation, and hockey IQ is great. But people seriously need to stop trying to justify him as a guaranteed hit prospect. He's a good, legitimate, quality NHL prospect. He is not the god you paint him out to be.
Desharnais has one good season, Atkinson and Conacher are hardly established in the NHL. The other guys are good prospects or NHL players that have had a solid year or two. The common thread among every single one of them mentioned? They are all bigger than Gaudreau. The most generous estimation of his size I've seen is 5'8" 153. I've seen him play, he's 5'7" at most. The lightest guy among those you mentioned is at least 15-20 pounds heavier than Gaudreau, which is a huge difference. Nobody that is that small has had the impact in the modern NHL that people project Gaudreau will have.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've seen Gaudreau play, and he's a great player. His vision, anticipation, and hockey IQ is great. But people seriously need to stop trying to justify him as a guaranteed hit prospect. He's a good, legitimate, quality NHL prospect. He is not the god you paint him out to be.
WJC team had JG had 5'9 155. They are all 2-3 years older if not more of course they have 20+ pounds on JG. You too have missed the point that being smaller isn't as big of a draw back it once was. I never said JG was god I think he is a top 30-50 prospect I think they only thing that holds him back is his size if he was 5'11 he would be seen higher then Sven. I have said probably 100+ times he isn't a sure thing but no prospect is my entire point is the people that write him solely on his size are wrong as many players around his size are starting to come into the nhl and succeed.
Desharnais has one good season, Atkinson and Conacher are hardly established in the NHL. The other guys are good prospects or NHL players that have had a solid year or two. The common thread among every single one of them mentioned? They are all bigger than Gaudreau. The most generous estimation of his size I've seen is 5'8" 153. I've seen him play, he's 5'7" at most. The lightest guy among those you mentioned is at least 15-20 pounds heavier than Gaudreau, which is a huge difference. Nobody that is that small has had the impact in the modern NHL that people project Gaudreau will have.
What's your point?
Gaudreau isn't done growing nor is he incapable of gaining another 15-20 points in the next couple of years. No one is saying he can jump in the NHL today and start dominating.
They say he's listed at 5'8" and 153 lbs now. Well Tyler Ennis was 5'9" and 160 lbs at this age.. Not much difference there and it hasn't stopped Ennis from developing into a productive scorer in the NHL.
People need to stop saying John Gaudreau won't make it on his small size alone, because other players have proven they can. Also, he is still growing. Not too long ago he was 5'6" and 141 lbs so I say 12 lbs is a nice steady progression from yesteryear. Stop beating a dead horse and playing the roles of broken record. Lets discuss something other than the kid's size. I am shocked at how obsessive these forums can get on one detail. lol
Yikes. At this point, one has to move on. I know I posted his size, but only because I think other things should play a factor. Like the will, spirit, talent, and smarts. Nobody should be guaranteeing his success in the NHL or even making it, but on the flip side, one shouldn't be so easy to dismiss he will have any NHL relevance on a narrow-minded thing as size. Yes, size is important, but so are other things like I mentioned.
Last edited by PensFan6687: 01-23-2013 at 02:22 AM.
Height-wise I think Gaudreau is likely fine. He definitely needs to add some mass though. How that will affect his play remains to be seen.
He's tough to project because of his size. It's undeniable the guy has incredible skill, but he will need to bulk up a good 15-20 pounds if he hopes to play in the NHL.
Desharnais has one good season, Atkinson and Conacher are hardly established in the NHL. The other guys are good prospects or NHL players that have had a solid year or two. The common thread among every single one of them mentioned? They are all bigger than Gaudreau. The most generous estimation of his size I've seen is 5'8" 153. I've seen him play, he's 5'7" at most. The lightest guy among those you mentioned is at least 15-20 pounds heavier than Gaudreau, which is a huge difference. Nobody that is that small has had the impact in the modern NHL that people project Gaudreau will have.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've seen Gaudreau play, and he's a great player. His vision, anticipation, and hockey IQ is great. But people seriously need to stop trying to justify him as a guaranteed hit prospect. He's a good, legitimate, quality NHL prospect. He is not the god you paint him out to be.
way too much comparing going on there Billy.
and dont act like Johnny cant grow in 2-3 years as he will likely have that time before ever worrying about the pro game (NHL).
everyone has seen Gaudreau play now, and without question he is one of the more exciting prospects around. he is always going to have question marks about his size, same with Grimaldi, but Gaudreau has proven everyone wrong at every level he has played at.
I am not going to say he is going to be a NHL player or NHL star, but as it stands currently, this kid is exactly what the league needs, and I firmly believe he is a top 20 prospect right now without a doubt. people over-pimp size way too much on here and in scouting, sometimes players simply make it on their skill level,work ethic and drive...all areas where Johnny excels at.
Johnny Gaudreau is best served at staying the full four years at college barring a lot of physical growth over the next year. Its not only the fact he is small, he is gonna have to transition his body from a 40+ games schedule to an 82 game one. As stated, College gives him the best opportunity to do that. He needs to be developed slowly, rushing him should not be an option. Not only for Gaudreaus's sake but for Calgary's. They need him to pan out and be a top 6 forward for them. If he busts it could severely hurt the immediate future of the franchise. People say he needs to face higher competition asap, but his hockey sense will be what determines how well he adjusts. I have no doubts a physically mature Gaudreau can be an NHL contributor.
Problems with Gaudreau's skating have been severely overstated. He has decent top end speed and ELITE agility (lateral movement and edge control). Think of him as a Jeff skinner type skater rather than a Marty St.louis. He needs to work on his first step, which can be fixed through gaining explosive muscle over the next few years.
Finally, some flames fan need to get over playing this whole "victim" card when it comes to prospects. Ignore the trolls, but if someone brings up a legitimite concern about a prospect (size, first step, etc...) address it, rather than "BUST" or "He doesnt get respect because he's a flames prospect". It's embarrassing, and serves no purpose in changing peoples opinions.
Johnny Gaudreau is best served at staying the full four years at college barring a lot of physical growth over the next year. Its not only the fact he is small, he is gonna have to transition his body from a 40+ games schedule to an 82 game one. As stated, College gives him the best opportunity to do that. He needs to be developed slowly, rushing him should not be an option. Not only for Gaudreaus's sake but for Calgary's. They need him to pan out and be a top 6 forward for them. If he busts it could severely hurt the immediate future of the franchise. People say he needs to face higher competition asap, but his hockey sense will be what determines how well he adjusts. I have no doubts a physically mature Gaudreau can be an NHL contributor.
Problems with Gaudreau's skating have been severely overstated. He has decent top end speed and ELITE agility (lateral movement and edge control). Think of him as a Jeff skinner type skater rather than a Marty St.louis. He needs to work on his first step, which can be fixed through gaining explosive muscle over the next few years.
Finally, some flames fan need to get over playing this whole "victim" card when it comes to prospects. Ignore the trolls, but if someone brings up a legitimite concern about a prospect (size, first step, etc...) address it, rather than "BUST" or "He doesnt get respect because he's a flames prospect". It's embarrassing, and serves no purpose in changing peoples opinions.
I just think people get a little annoyed when the 58th person comes in saying his size might hold him back like everyone hasn't already noticed this.
Johnny Gaudreau is best served at staying the full four years at college barring a lot of physical growth over the next year. Its not only the fact he is small, he is gonna have to transition his body from a 40+ games schedule to an 82 game one. As stated, College gives him the best opportunity to do that.
Agreed on all points but this one. I can see a good argument for him playing one more year at college after this one, but unless he stays ridicusmall, swapping to the AHL for a season rather than his 4th year in college makes a lot of sense to me.
And again, I think even going to the AHL next season might be a possibility if he gets a little more weight.
Agreed on all points but this one. I can see a good argument for him playing one more year at college after this one, but unless he stays ridicusmall, swapping to the AHL for a season rather than his 4th year in college makes a lot of sense to me.
And again, I think even going to the AHL next season might be a possibility if he gets a little more weight.
Im still going to have to disagree. He is at a crucial part in his development. He is just finishing puberty and these next 2 years will be when it will be easiest for him to gain muscle. If he has made significant strides after next season, maybe then he can go to the AHL, but I would want his weight at 170+ by that training camp. 15-20 pounds is possible in just under 2 years, but not overly likely.
I see Corey Locke as a fitting comparable to Gaudreau. Small player with mediocre at best speed, dominant offensive flair in the juniors (except Locke was more dominant than Gaudreau is now)
I see Corey Locke as a fitting comparable to Gaudreau. Small player with mediocre at best speed, dominant offensive flair in the juniors (except Locke was more dominant than Gaudreau is now)
are you actually trying to compare OHL stats to NCAA stats? Keep grasping fella.
We also don't know what Gaudreau's optimum playing weight is, while he may be able to add 15-20 lbs is it going to effect his speed and agility? you shouldn't just add size for size's sake especially if you're a skill player like Gaudreau. If he's 155 lbs now then 165 might be the best weight for him.
" or "He doesnt get respect because he's a flames prospect". It's embarrassing, and serves no purpose in changing peoples opinions.
